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Thread: Revive button

  1. #61
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Being notified that we can pay our way out of situational stuff is something Turbine should have learned their lesson on. Players already sent a strong message when astral shards first came out that they dont want pop ups every time the status of their toons changes.

    As for having to pay for it all in a game if you want it all....how does that include pop up messages of "hey looks like you experienced character death, pay x# of shards to get right back up and into the fight" - "hey looks like you got cursed, pay x# of shards to remove it" - "hey looks like you got poisoned, pay x# of shards to remove poison".

    "hey it looks like you closed down our annoying pop ups asking you to pay shards very quickly, pay x# of shards to never see another pop up" /pic of xibit....
    Its all a matter of how you WANT to see it. Id ont care one way or the other, so i dont even notice it. If you want to see ghosts you meet them everywhere, you know.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  2. #62
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its all a matter of how you WANT to see it. Id ont care one way or the other, so i dont even notice it. If you want to see ghosts you meet them everywhere, you know.
    Not really. Theres a difference between knowing we can buy our way through most game situations, and having a message pop up to remind us of that after each status change. The players already made a pretty strong statement about not wanting to see these pop up messages each time the status of their character changes. This happened right after astral shards came out. Many of the folks who support Turbine monetizing anything they possibly can were in agreement that they still didnt want to see pop up screens reminding them of it every few minutes. Its not a matter of what one wants to see at all, its a matter of what they actually do see.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #63
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Not really. Theres a difference between knowing we can buy our way through most game situations, and having a message pop up to remind us of that after each status change. The players already made a pretty strong statement about not wanting to see these pop up messages each time the status of their character changes. This happened right after astral shards came out. Many of the folks who support Turbine monetizing anything they possibly can were in agreement that they still didnt want to see pop up screens reminding them of it every few minutes. Its not a matter of what one wants to see at all, its a matter of what they actually do see.
    You miss my point. I dont care, so i dont see it either. If the idea bothers you, you WILL see it, because its like a piece of food stuck between your teeth.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Not really. Theres a difference between knowing we can buy our way through most game situations, and having a message pop up to remind us of that after each status change. The players already made a pretty strong statement about not wanting to see these pop up messages each time the status of their character changes. This happened right after astral shards came out. Many of the folks who support Turbine monetizing anything they possibly can were in agreement that they still didnt want to see pop up screens reminding them of it every few minutes. Its not a matter of what one wants to see at all, its a matter of what they actually do see.
    The Curse, Poison, etc status changes were short lived and a poor comparison to the little revive button that adds on to the objective window - it's not like we're getting some big pop up window centered on the screen. Seriously, I never noticed the button until this thread caused me to actively look for it after a death in Foundation (damn those sonic mines!).

    If that little button is such a big deal, try this: Die Less Often!
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  5. #65
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Well, basically this is just what i mean.

    Since im not about to spend anything, why should i care about the button one way or the other. I just excersize the talent i have been forced to develop in daily life, and just edit out the commercials.
    Yeah, i see what you're saying. I'm the kind of person who changes the channel when the commercials come on and thankfully I think for this new Spend! button we can click 'don't show in quests.'

  6. #66
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    what if you went to the movies and in the corner of the screen there was a window that said there are snacks you can buy in the lobby? we already know there are snacks in the lobby, but maybe the theater wants to constantly remind you in case you forget. I know it would bother me, but I bet there are a few people here who would say "its only in the corner of the screen, hardly noticeable. if you let it bother you, you will always see it." if I close my right eye when I play, the right side of my screen is blurry so I wont notice the shard counter and revive button. I should also be more careful with my mouse when I want to click on the xp report. yeah, the revive button is only right next to it and hardly noticeable. oh wait, im doing it wrong. I should be using keys and than I wont notice the button there.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    what if you went to the movies and in the corner of the screen there was a window that said there are snacks you can buy in the lobby? we already know there are snacks in the lobby, but maybe the theater wants to constantly remind you in case you forget. I know it would bother me, but I bet there are a few people here who would say "its only in the corner of the screen, hardly noticeable. if you let it bother you, you will always see it." if I close my right eye when I play, the right side of my screen is blurry so I wont notice the shard counter and revive button. I should also be more careful with my mouse when I want to click on the xp report. yeah, the revive button is only right next to it and hardly noticeable. oh wait, im doing it wrong. I should be using keys and than I wont notice the button there.
    The button is only there when you're dead.

    Spend less time dead, and it will bother you less.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  8. #68
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    The button is only there when you're dead.

    Spend less time dead, and it will bother you less.
    thanks for the tip, although it has nothing to do with this topic. that's like telling someone not to eat yellow snow. well duh!

  9. #69
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    thanks for the tip, although it has nothing to do with this topic. that's like telling someone not to eat yellow snow. well duh!
    Some people have to be told even that, you know. (Not meaning you, but... well, you know what i mean, i hope)
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    thanks for the tip, although it has nothing to do with this topic. that's like telling someone not to eat yellow snow. well duh!
    Oh, my bad. I thought the topic was (generally) the little revive button and (more specifically) how it's another emersion wrecking shameless in-your-face money grab...

    Seems quite the opposite to me, really. It's only as immersion wrecking as the Recall & XP report buttons - less so because it's only there when you're dead, rather than full time.

    Seemed relevant to me.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  11. #71
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    The button is only there when you're dead.

    Spend less time dead, and it will bother you less.
    This! The whole discussion is quite pointless, imho. So stating the obvious and making some fun out of the discussion is a legit strategy to avoid brain damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Oh, my bad. I thought the topic was (generally) the little revive button and (more specifically) how it's another emersion wrecking shameless in-your-face money grab...

    Seems quite the opposite to me, really. It's only as immersion wrecking as the Recall & XP report buttons - less so because it's only there when you're dead, rather than full time.

    Seemed relevant to me.
    Generally speaking, this is one of the better features from the whole AS / money grab features that got introduced during the last 2 years or so. Spirit cakes are a matter of fact since a long time (2010?) and the discussion about this being p2w is long over and out. Since the costs for the revival are comparable to the cakes in the shop, and since the feature is not annoyingly dominant upon death, it is an acceptable feature. It´s not the automatic "loot reroll" cr*p comming up every time I open a chest.

    And still, if it annoys YOU (everybody reading this, not @PermaBanned in special), do not use it. Simple as it is. I like the feature, for an instance, even if I do not intend to use it often.
    Last edited by Nestroy; 03-27-2014 at 02:43 AM.

  12. #72
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    If it was only the revive window, I am not sure it would bother people so much. But this game is full of "revive windows".

    And one cannot help but wonder how many of the gamefeatures are created so that it becomes increasingly appealing to click YES on them.

    But some people here seem to want to be able to claim that it is simply the window and that it is easy to ignore. I wonder how much this is because it is hurtful to admit that the game is filled with p2w and that probably plenty of us have used the p2w often.

    Part of this game is the challenge and the competition with other players. Having the best performing build, the one who contributes the most to a group or who can solo a tough quest. All these achievements become a lot less valuable if you have been able to perform them because you spent more cash than the guy who is unable.

    I think that it is not a suprise to anyone if I say that a big part of having an effective "build" is time investment. And precisely it is in time investment where the p2w introduced by turbine is strongest. You can pay your way out of a large part of the grind, or speed up things. For skipping grind there are Otto boxes (not available constantly because Turbine knows that it is the strongest p2w option), hearts at the store and DESTINY keys, among others. To speed up things you have cakes, chest rerolls, the astral exchange and raid timers.

    No one wants to play a game where it is obvious that people rank strictly on the basis of cash invested. That's why I think turbine should be extremely careful in terms of going further in the direction of more grind (read more temptations to pay to get out of it offered).

    Furthermore, turbine has to make grind painful in order for the pad option to become attractive. By doing so, they are scaring off a lot of people who simply do NOT want to pay beyond their subscriptions. It might be because of cash availability (underage people), to keep the spirit of the competition in the game (adults) or because they simply feel annoyed at falling at the sketchi money-coughing schemes of the game (adults again). This game would be A LOT more attractive if it was a pure competition between subscribers and they stopped placing burdersome chores to make people opt out of them via money.

  13. #73
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Spirit cakes exist for a long time now. The button just eases up access to them.
    Still, it's a decision you can make. No one forces you to use it.

    I never bought a res cake in this game and I probably will never use this button.
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  14. #74
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    But some people here seem to want to be able to claim that it is simply the window and that it is easy to ignore. I wonder how much this is because it is hurtful to admit that the game is filled with p2w and that probably plenty of us have used the p2w often.

    No one wants to play a game where it is obvious that people rank strictly on the basis of cash invested. That's why I think turbine should be extremely careful in terms of going further in the direction of more grind (read more temptations to pay to get out of it offered).
    My take on the p2w is that the ones that fear it, notice it. Well, in addition to those that need it. A lot of people pay it no attention what so ever, since it has precious little to do with them. Itys somethign that exists, and wont vanish either. It does not bother me, since i dont care one way or the other. Nothing to do with the great drama that the opponents make of it, or the great need some have of it.

    There is rank in this game? Never noticed any other rank, except people i like, and those i dislike (with the great majority belonging to the "who?" category). The chance to buy shards directly dont make me any more tempted to buy them, nor will i waste my money on cakes, no matter how much they advertise them.

    In my case at least, these two assumptions are wrong. They might be more correct with the anti-p2w crowd, in my opinion.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

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    So it doesn't bother you if they create unnecessarily boring game features to encourage people to pay their way out of it?

  16. #76
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    So it doesn't bother you if they create unnecessarily boring game features to encourage people to pay their way out of it?
    Ok, i must say that i REALLY dont understand this time (no troll, i mean). Which feature do you mean in this case, death? Or gathering tokens/COVs etc? None of which i mind, since im in no rush anywhere. When i play i intend to enjoy the journey, not sit at the end wondering about what to do next.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

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    Yes. COV. Or the heroic tokens. Or the need to level in out of your interest ED in order to unlock some cool stuff. Or raid timers.

  18. #78
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Yes. COV. Or the heroic tokens. Or the need to level in out of your interest ED in order to unlock some cool stuff. Or raid timers.
    The alternative then to loosing your favourite ED and te-leveling it has been loosing all the EDs... So this seemed to be the reasonable compromise then. I am still no friend of off-EDs, but I understand this and to a certain degree support this over the alternatives discussed (and implemented on Lam for review) when the system got introduced.

    There had been some proposals in the discussion about the EDs but this is what we got. Would we have gotten what the devs first had pulled out I assure you there still up to now would be severe complaints on how unfair the system is. And no, this is not a question of otto´s boxes or something the like.

  19. #79
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    Isn't it convenient though that a destiny key for 900 TP can save you the pain? If this is trully the best method, why is there an tasty p2w option right next to it.

    I'll stop because I don´t want to be that guy that has to keep pointing at the obvious while everyone else goes: what? I never saw that! for the sake of I don't know what (not getting a bad reputation with turbine? pretending this is not p2w?).

    This is a good game. It has good possibilities given its engine, the fact that it comes from a very succesful franchise and that it has been well implemented (mostly).

    Making it increasingly grindy in a hope that this will bring more revenue is turning it into something that is not of my taste in that IMHO puts off people.

  20. #80
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    Default Warning: Tangental Rant Ahead...

    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Yes. COV. Or the heroic tokens. Or the need to level in out of your interest ED in order to unlock some cool stuff. Or raid timers.
    I've been playing this game since the launch of F2P. Here's how I've paid to win: I bought more character slots, most of the content (adventure packs), all available bank and inventory tabs for my two mains, all classes and races (except Drow and Iconic). Some of that came from real money (purchased points) the rest came from aquired points. I have never purchased an ottos box (though I've traded for a total of 3 heroics), nor have I purchased XP pots or shards.

    So other than skipping most of three heroic lives (classes I don't enjoy playing), I've spent the time playing to develop a multitude of (bank) alts learning different classes and playstyles, and have developed my mains into a (non-completionest) Cleric with 3x all caster PLs as well as 3x Pally; and a (Completionest) non-caster. Both have maxed EDs - and not by the "bleeding eyes" method of using one or two quests to make it happen.

    It doesn't bother me in the least that some people aren't willing to spend years developing a character or two, and would rather make a monetary investment instead of a time investment. It doesn't hurt me, diminish my progress or (personal) game achievements, or any other such nonsense. I don't see myself as being in competition with other players.

    I don't consider the game a grind - and I never have. The way I see it, the sooner I have "everything done" the sooner I have nothing left to do - and that would suck. The "grind" I so often see people talk about on the forums seems directly related to wanting everything (character development wise) and wanting it right now. Truth be told, there's way less "grind" now than in days past: Bravery Bonus and the lowering of TR XP requirements have both FREELY reduced the grind. CoVs for ETRs? Rofl EPLs are as necessary as HPLs - which is to say they aren't. What others call "artificial grind" unnecessarily added to the game, I call a game play extension.

    Too each there own I guess. But this little button is hardly P2W as I understand the term, it's out of the way and small, and only there when you're dead - whoopty frickin' do.
    Last edited by PermaBanned; 03-27-2014 at 05:40 AM.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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