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  1. #1
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Default Change the Phylactery Mechanic in the Temple of Deathwyrm At the End Fight

    I want to make sure that you the dev understand the issue with this mechanic and what exactly I mean. As I stated in another thread this mechanic is extremely note very pug friendly and I have some suggestions as to how to make this more pug friendly.
    At about 50% health on the shadow dragon, the shadow dragon spawns shadows. After killing a shadow the shadow spawns a bubble. The players that are going through to the shadow area have to click on the bubble in order to go to the shadow area. After kiilling the red names in the shadow area the players are divided up and go into separate portals. In the different portals there are 4 or so shadows and a phylactery. The players then have to prepp the phylactery to about 5% health or so and then kill the phylacteries within approximately 2 seconds of each other in order to get the best possible chance of killing the real phylactery. After 2 seconds of one phylactery being destroyed all the players are teleported out of the phylactery portal areas back to the main room.

    Let me begin by saying this is extremely difficult for pugs of varying game knowlege, skill level, and gear. The first issue which will eventually be remedied with experience is getting the pugs to click on the bubble and enter the shadow realm. Perhaps you can make that bubble more user friendly. The real issue is the expectation that pugs with varying skill level, gear, and game knowledge will be able to destroy a phylactery within 2 seconds of each other. Time and time again this obviously going to be a very difficult thing for a pug to manage. It is very unforgivng mechanic because if a pug is not able to destroy the phyalctery within in 2 seconds they are teleported along with everyone else out of the phyalctery rooms.

    I propose that the teleport aspect of this be removed just that after 2 seconds all the phylatceries are restored to full health. In the absence of this I would propose the 2 seconds be lengthened to 10 seconds.

    There is also a potential problem with spell criticals, shiradi procs, and colors of the queen all proccing thus destroying of a phylactery prematurely. There is also allegations of the phylacteries being bugged and being damaged and destroyed of their own accord or the shadows actually damaging the phylacteries.

    This iwhole phylactery features has made pugging this raid very unfun. Not every player plays the same build, has the same guild, and plays in a highly coordinated guild. Players are from all sorts of backgounds in a game sense. This phylactery feature can literally double or tripple the quest time depending on the group. Please fix this. Thanks.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  2. #2
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    You're overthinking the problem. You don't HAVE to prep all phylacteries and take them down within 2 seconds. A well coordinated group can pull this off, however, it's not necessary. Kill the red names, and set up one portal. Go in one at a time (or two at a time if the players are just that incapable) and kill one phylactery. If it's the right one, great. If not, have another one or two from just outside that portal go in and try it a second time. The phylactery "resets" each time players are teleported out so you can just redo the same portal over and over until you get the right one. Yes it might take longer than prepping all at once, but it's much, MUCH easier for a pug group to do it this way.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  3. #3
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Send only one high DPS toon into one phylactery room at a time and kill it. Only this person will get teleported back while everyone else stays on the shadow side.
    That person can work on killing a shadow on the dragon side to get back, while the next 'best' person tries the next phylactery room.

    This can potentially take longer than a perfectly executed all-phylactery kill, but it requires less coordination and nothing can really go wrong.

    On the plus side, when you get the right phylactery, you already have a bunch of people standing on the shadow side, to collect the shards.

    Edit: Damn ninjas.
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  4. #4
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Send only one high DPS toon into one phylactery room at a time and kill it. Only this person will get teleported back while everyone else stays on the shadow side.
    That person can work on killing a shadow on the dragon side to get back, while the next 'best' person tries the next phylactery room.

    This can potentially take longer than a perfectly executed all-phylactery kill, but it requires less coordination and nothing can really go wrong.

    On the plus side, when you get the right phylactery, you already have a bunch of people standing on the shadow side, to collect the shards.

    Edit: Damn ninjas.
    Ahh that is what I was starting to think was the solution. Thanks guys that should make this a lot easier. It really is problematic to have to execute this at the same time and if you fail you have to beat the dragon down again which all in all can take a while.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  5. #5
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    You're overthinking the problem. You don't HAVE to prep all phylacteries and take them down within 2 seconds. A well coordinated group can pull this off, however, it's not necessary. Kill the red names, and set up one portal. Go in one at a time (or two at a time if the players are just that incapable) and kill one phylactery. If it's the right one, great. If not, have another one or two from just outside that portal go in and try it a second time. The phylactery "resets" each time players are teleported out so you can just redo the same portal over and over until you get the right one. Yes it might take longer than prepping all at once, but it's much, MUCH easier for a pug group to do it this way.
    Actually many of the pugs are incapable of soloing a phylactery - I kid you not. It just is reality in pugland which is why I send 8-9 people in the shadow realm so there is mostly 2 people per room. What is difficult is getting new pugs to the raid to click on the shadow bubbles which also disappear. This is kind of a nightmare situation from a pug standpoint. Thanks for the information on that players are not teleported from the shadow realm just the players in the phylactery rooms.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  6. #6
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Actually many of the pugs are incapable of soloing a phylactery - I kid you not. It just is reality in pugland which is why I send 8-9 people in the shadow realm so there is mostly 2 people per room. What is difficult is getting new pugs to the raid to click on the shadow bubbles which also disappear. This is kind of a nightmare situation from a pug standpoint. Thanks for the information on that players are not teleported from the shadow realm just the players in the phylactery rooms.
    We did have a situation last night in which the players inside the phylactery room and just outside the portal in the shadow realm all got teleported back to the main room without dropping the phylactery. The thinking was that triggering more shadow spawns by beating down the dragon caused us to bump back out. It was the first I'd seen it, but we were probably going on 8 phylactery attempts or more so we had to get more shadows to go back in. If you've got a long lineup waiting to go in the phylactery portal, make sure the players on the outside don't beat on the dragon too much.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  7. #7
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    can everyone just go in the portal? is there any reason to leave a few behind with the dragon? The groups I'm in always fail at this point. The last one the casters ran out of mana pots and we weren't going to spend $$ on that bunch of horse ****. I'm sure some people will tho.. but for us, failure due to running out of resources.

  8. #8
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGardes View Post
    can everyone just go in the portal? is there any reason to leave a few behind with the dragon? The groups I'm in always fail at this point. The last one the casters ran out of mana pots and we weren't going to spend $$ on that bunch of horse ****. I'm sure some people will tho.. but for us, failure due to running out of resources.
    If everyone leaves the dragon room, he just teleports you all back so at least one person has to stay back. Leave a trash kiter and a dragon chew toy in the main room. Your resource expenses should hopefully be minimal during this phase. If casters are chugging pots like candy, then I'm wondering what they're doing. Just go defensive and kite or turtle up. No real need to kill anything except maybe the casters if you find them annoying or skellies if you want to reduce dungeon alert. I'd leave the skellies and casters for the rest of the group as they come back one by one if at all possible. When enough of the group is ported back, then start working on the dragon again.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  9. #9
    Community Member jaegarnel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGardes View Post
    can everyone just go in the portal? is there any reason to leave a few behind with the dragon? The groups I'm in always fail at this point. The last one the casters ran out of mana pots and we weren't going to spend $$ on that bunch of horse ****. I'm sure some people will tho.. but for us, failure due to running out of resources.
    There isn't much reason for casters to be chugging pots. The only thing casters really need to do in that raid is kill red name necromancers asap, drag shadows to the center and eburst them, and occasionally take out archers if you get DA.

    My groups have always had trouble getting the right phylactery even when well-coordinated (took us 4 tries in my last run despite having people who prepped the phylacteries in all 5 rooms), but even a few failures shouldn't mean a wipe in a decent group.

  10. #10
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    If you can't coordinate use the one person/one portal a time method. Only that person is transported out and then you can send another person through. It's a little slower but much easier to deal with in a PUG.

  11. #11
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Actually many of the pugs are incapable of soloing a phylactery - I kid you not. It just is reality in pugland which is why I send 8-9 people in the shadow realm so there is mostly 2 people per room. What is difficult is getting new pugs to the raid to click on the shadow bubbles which also disappear. This is kind of a nightmare situation from a pug standpoint. Thanks for the information on that players are not teleported from the shadow realm just the players in the phylactery rooms.
    LOLz . . . Khyber . . .

  12. #12
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Finally a raid mechanic that rewards coordination.

    It should be unchanged.
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  13. #13
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Actually many of the pugs are incapable of soloing a phylactery - I kid you not. It just is reality in pugland which is why I send 8-9 people in the shadow realm so there is mostly 2 people per room. What is difficult is getting new pugs to the raid to click on the shadow bubbles which also disappear. This is kind of a nightmare situation from a pug standpoint.
    You got to be more hardcore Matt.
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 03-26-2014 at 11:18 AM.

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  14. #14
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Finally a raid mechanic that rewards coordination.

    It should be unchanged.
    Agreed. Don't change this mechanic.

    You can just use the cycle method in pugs that don't have the ability to follow instruction and prep. Cycle can take longer but it is pug proof. Not lag proof.
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  15. #15
    Undermine Zerger Knight_slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Let me begin by saying this is extremely difficult for pugs of varying game knowlege, skill level, and gear.
    I know its a no brainer but I'll say it anyway, join a guild that runs raids if you don't like pugging this raids! Lol, I remember you telling us what a joke this raid was going to be! I guess you were wrong. Maybe next time a new raid is released you will run the raid at least 1 time before telling the whole community how easy it is, in someone elses thread. Either that or just learn to be more hardcore.

  16. #16
    Community Member Franke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_slayer View Post
    I know its a no brainer but I'll say it anyway, join a guild that runs raids if you don't like pugging this raids! Lol, I remember you telling us what a joke this raid was going to be! I guess you were wrong. Maybe next time a new raid is released you will run the raid at least 1 time before telling the whole community how easy it is, in someone elses thread. Either that or just learn to be more hardcore.
    Ouch! That's going to bruise by morning.

  17. #17
    Community Member Grimlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_slayer View Post
    I know its a no brainer but I'll say it anyway, join a guild that runs raids if you don't like pugging this raids! Lol, I remember you telling us what a joke this raid was going to be! I guess you were wrong. Maybe next time a new raid is released you will run the raid at least 1 time before telling the whole community how easy it is, in someone elses thread. Either that or just learn to be more hardcore.
    This.
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  18. #18
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_slayer View Post
    I know its a no brainer but I'll say it anyway, join a guild that runs raids if you don't like pugging this raids! Lol, I remember you telling us what a joke this raid was going to be! I guess you were wrong. Maybe next time a new raid is released you will run the raid at least 1 time before telling the whole community how easy it is, in someone elses thread. Either that or just learn to be more hardcore.
    I am far more hardcore then yourself at this game. I just play regardless of who is available or whatever the circumstances. I do not need to join a fluff guild to play whereas perhaps you should look at the mirror and see what you need to do. The raids are easy after all I am completing them with some highly questionable players.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  19. #19
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I am far more hardcore then yourself.
    Picture of you wearing a black studded leather outfit with a ball-gag needed for proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    The raids are easy after all I am completing them
    Noted.

  20. #20
    Undermine Zerger Knight_slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I want to make sure that you the dev understand the issue
    I sure as hell don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Let me begin by saying this is extremely difficult for pugs
    Got it, you think this part of the raid is extremely difficult, so much so that you posted this thread about it on the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    The raids are easy after all I am completing them with some highly questionable players.
    You finish by saying the raids are easy, even in pugs. Maybe your just not sure which thread your responding to! I imagine its tough to keep track of all thoes posts.

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