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  1. #101
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    I think that submitting video is the only thing that makes sense and really should be done at the time of submissions. Anyone copying any valid techniques would be posting after that person so there is credit enough there. You could try to do the month delay allowed for videos but that seems complicated to be tracked.

    Regardless video seems fair for all.

  2. #102
    Community Member nolifer1's Avatar
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    i never used exploit or game bug, any of my achivment, and i hate peole showing up with cheap methods ME SO STRONG! while some peopl actually do hard wrong with years of experience.
    i love to post videos , but my pc is way to **** for recording, even when i record with 15 frames pes sec, i get too much loss in game and it makes it unplayble, i need best performance wheni make speedruns, i try record breaking the ranks ee solo, when idid not see any mobs coming and 2 sec later i was stuck between mobs and i died......
    so i guess next update/patch when bug its fixed , we can post start post creenshot with new destiny ?
    or just send me meoney or 2*2gb ddr 2 ram lol! so i can finnaly record mystuff;P
    Last edited by nolifer1; 04-01-2014 at 03:22 PM.
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  3. #103
    Community Member Talonaise's Avatar
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    The point I am trying to make, is there will always be bugs/exploits. I have played this game since it began, and have seen many people use different things to go faster/better. Some things were WAI that were later nerfed, others were not.

    Right now you want to use video in order to prove that people aren't cheating. This is not going to help you. I know for a fact off the top of my head at least one cheat that would NOT show up on a video. I am sure there are many many more that I have not heard of. I am sure there will be more with each update. It is the nature of this game.

    So, my point is - nothing really can be done to make sure 100% of the time that people are not cheating. You are fooling yourself if you think you can tell. In my opinion it is unfair to penalize those with slower systems just because they don't have the ability to record. I think we just have to trust people. I would argue that 99% of those who cared enough to post, did it fairly. It really means very little otherwise. My vote -- Screenshot, video if you can. But just move on and accept the fact that you might have a cheater in your midst. See it's kind of like real life, you don't ever really know.

    Ultimately remember -- THIS IS A GAME-- and the game, and this thread, are not important in the grand scheme of things. Everyone needs to relax and stop treating this like the next major crisis in our world.
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  4. #104
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talonaise View Post
    The point I am trying to make, is there will always be bugs/exploits. I have played this game since it began, and have seen many people use different things to go faster/better. Some things were WAI that were later nerfed, others were not.

    Right now you want to use video in order to prove that people aren't cheating. This is not going to help you. I know for a fact off the top of my head at least one cheat that would NOT show up on a video. I am sure there are many many more that I have not heard of. I am sure there will be more with each update. It is the nature of this game.

    So, my point is - nothing really can be done to make sure 100% of the time that people are not cheating. You are fooling yourself if you think you can tell. In my opinion it is unfair to penalize those with slower systems just because they don't have the ability to record. I think we just have to trust people. I would argue that 99% of those who cared enough to post, did it fairly. It really means very little otherwise. My vote -- Screenshot, video if you can. But just move on and accept the fact that you might have a cheater in your midst. See it's kind of like real life, you don't ever really know.

    Ultimately remember -- THIS IS A GAME-- and the game, and this thread, are not important in the grand scheme of things. Everyone needs to relax and stop treating this like the next major crisis in our world.
    I agree with Kit 100% on this. Some people will cheat, most won't. And those that will cheat will always find a way to game the system one way or another. Accept that and move on. Besides if someone makes it too obvious they cheated you can just kick them and erase all their records.
    There is little point to doing much more than this since you will never be able to tell 100% if someone cheated, even with the use of videos(Which will exclude the option of competing in this thread for a lot of people btw). There will always be the chance that someone can use an exploit you have no idea exists and never be caught, so really the trust system is the only way to go about this.

    You also run into the issue of people simply not agreeing on what an exploit or bug is. How many times have you read an exploit thread where every other response is "How do you know it's not WAI?", or "Until we get a dev response it's WAI..."? Or things that are "confirmed Non-WAI"
    but devs let the issue sit for SOO damn long that people just accept that that's the way it is supposed to work. (No ML Rings anyone?) There is a lot of murky water around these issues and it will never, ever be cleared up.

    Also, it occurs to me that either I'm just way too trusting on the game itself and can't tell Non-WAI from WAI, Or I'm just really bad at finding bugs other than stuck spots. It's kind of depressing reading everyone rage about exploits and I'm just like, "What's this now?".
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  5. #105
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    I really like how people are sitting on their high horses against bugged melee Weapons from Thunderholme, when noone is looking at the bugged arcane enhancements, granting spellcasters an extremly huge non-WaI bonus to spellpower. Nice going, defend your bugged runs as hard and long as you want. I guess some poeple dont know about the caster stuff, and use it by accident.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    I really like how people are sitting on their high horses against bugged melee Weapons from Thunderholme, when noone is looking at the bugged arcane enhancements, granting spellcasters an extremly huge non-WaI bonus to spellpower. Nice going, defend your bugged runs as hard and long as you want. I guess some poeple dont know about the caster stuff, and use it by accident.
    Wait what? PM Plox!!!
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  7. #107
    Community Member nolifer1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    I really like how people are sitting on their high horses against bugged melee Weapons from Thunderholme, when noone is looking at the bugged arcane enhancements, granting spellcasters an extremly huge non-WaI bonus to spellpower. Nice going, defend your bugged runs as hard and long as you want. I guess some poeple dont know about the caster stuff, and use it by accident.
    i dont think moo cow aka drpeppero do it by accident since he ignoring my pm-s but, dont worry my sorc does aslo aslo now 21+ k to helpless, if i add sence weakness they go 26-27 k damage, meyb he dont answer me cos he have somthing to cover, or meyb he is just bored from getting tells from different people, how the hell he does so much damage ???? but honestly i hink all caster records are bs atm like most meele records since u21, meyb by accident, meybe just beeing lame
    Quote Originally Posted by xTethx View Post
    Wait what? PM Plox!!!
    i tell u right here , its broken scroll ench from eldric knight tree, with 3 ranks it shold add 75 % scroll damage, appearntly does not thing to scroll, but all your spells sla-s etc gain 75% more damage
    aslo on lamannia u21 patch 1 notes https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...pdated-4-2-14)

    Enhancements

    •Eldritch Knight's Wand and Scroll Mastery now functions. (aviously fail coding by turbine and deff not WAI!

    eldric knight scroll mastre is not u21 bug, its been broken since it got relised on the first place, i tested it on airhip, saw it does nothing to my scroll damage, and i drop it, but i never tested it on spells before heak tell me yesterday


    achivent records are great idea, but ruined by game bugs or just people who cheat to show off to beople , to look better then they actually are!!! i mean how u not knotice it does nothing to your scroll but u still using it?!
    meybe somne is mad at me now, cos i pnted it out, (thank you heak!) but its just lame
    Last edited by nolifer1; 04-04-2014 at 11:17 AM.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolifer1 View Post
    i dont think moo cow aka drpeppero do it by accident since he ignoring my pm-s but, dont worry my sorc does aslo aslo now 21+ k to helpless, if i add sence weakness they go 26-27 k damage, meyb he dont answer me cos he have somthing to cover, or meyb he is just bored from getting tells from different people, how the hell he does so much damage ???? but honestly i hink all caster records are bs atm like most meele records since u21, meyb by accident, meybe just beeing lame


    i tell u right here , its broken scroll ench from eldric knight tree, with 3 ranks it shold add 75 % scroll damage, appearntly does not thing to scroll, but all your spells sla-s etc gain 75% more damage
    aslo on lamannia u21 patch 1 notes https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...pdated-4-2-14)

    Enhancements

    •Eldritch Knight's Wand and Scroll Mastery now functions. (aviously fail coding by turbine and deff not WAI!

    eldric knight scroll mastre is not u21 bug, its been broken since it got relised on the first place, i tested it on airhip, saw it does nothing to my scroll damage, and i drop it, but i never tested it on spells before heak tell me yesterday


    achivent records are great idea, but ruined by game bugs or just people who cheat to show off to beople , to look better then they actually are!!! i mean how u not knotice it does nothing to your scroll but u still using it?!
    meybe somne is mad at me now, cos i pnted it out, (thank you heak!) but its just lame
    Wow, guess I should use it and get some super speed records , J/K
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  9. #109
    Community Member Stinging_Bee's Avatar
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    What about Angel of vengeance discount of maximize that stacks with Archmage one?
    I know casters who use the 2 combined to get -18 to the cost of maximize. If you add meridian fragment on top of that you get to cast any spell with 150 more spell power at the cost of 1 more sp.
    Game breaking
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinging_Bee View Post
    What about Angel of vengeance discount of maximize that stacks with Archmage one?
    I know casters who use the 2 combined to get -18 to the cost of maximize. If you add meridian fragment on top of that you get to cast any spell with 150 more spell power at the cost of 1 more sp.
    Game breaking
    I always thought it was working as intended, since the one for archmage is called Improved Maximize and the one for fvs is Efficient Maximize (which is the same as the savant line). Not sure how it was intended, but in terms of enhancements they are named differently. Still I admit to using it, but it doesn't speed my runs up at all.
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  11. #111
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolifer1 View Post
    i dont think moo cow aka drpeppero do it by accident since he ignoring my pm-s but, dont worry my sorc does aslo aslo now 21+ k to helpless, if i add sence weakness they go 26-27 k damage, meyb he dont answer me cos he have somthing to cover, or meyb he is just bored from getting tells from different people, how the hell he does so much damage ???? but honestly i hink all caster records are bs atm like most meele records since u21, meyb by accident, meybe just beeing lame


    i tell u right here , its broken scroll ench from eldric knight tree, with 3 ranks it shold add 75 % scroll damage, appearntly does not thing to scroll, but all your spells sla-s etc gain 75% more damage
    aslo on lamannia u21 patch 1 notes https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...pdated-4-2-14)

    Enhancements

    •Eldritch Knight's Wand and Scroll Mastery now functions. (aviously fail coding by turbine and deff not WAI!

    eldric knight scroll mastre is not u21 bug, its been broken since it got relised on the first place, i tested it on airhip, saw it does nothing to my scroll damage, and i drop it, but i never tested it on spells before heak tell me yesterday


    achivent records are great idea, but ruined by game bugs or just people who cheat to show off to beople , to look better then they actually are!!! i mean how u not knotice it does nothing to your scroll but u still using it?!
    meybe somne is mad at me now, cos i pnted it out, (thank you heak!) but its just lame
    Doc has been away for at least a few days and does not know why his crits are so big or he is keeping it a secret at least he tells me so I ask him at least every other day or so...
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  12. #112
    Community Member Stinging_Bee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xTethx View Post
    I always thought it was working as intended, since the one for archmage is called Improved Maximize and the one for fvs is Efficient Maximize (which is the same as the savant line). Not sure how it was intended, but in terms of enhancements they are named differently. Still I admit to using it, but it doesn't speed my runs up at all.
    They look exactly the same to me... the only difference I see is that the archmage one let you select also quicken if you want
    From the ddowiki:

    AOV: Efficient Metamagic: Choose one of the following Metamagic feats. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic.
    Efficient Empower: Using the Empower Spell Metamagic costs you 2/4/6 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Enlarge: Using the Enlarge Spell Metamagic costs you 1/2/4 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Maximize: Using the Maximize Spell Metamagic costs you 3/6/9 fewer Spell Points.

    Archmage: Efficient Metamagic: Choose one of the following Metamagic feats. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic.
    Efficient Empower: Using the Empower Spell Metamagic costs you 2/4/6 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Enlarge: Using the Enlarge Spell Metamagic costs you 1/2/4 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Maximize: Using the Maximize Spell Metamagic costs you 3/6/9 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Quicken: Using the Quicken Spell Metamagic costs you 1/2/4 fewer Spell Points.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinging_Bee View Post
    They look exactly the same to me... the only difference I see is that the archmage one let you select also quicken if you want
    From the ddowiki:

    AOV: Efficient Metamagic: Choose one of the following Metamagic feats. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic.
    Efficient Empower: Using the Empower Spell Metamagic costs you 2/4/6 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Enlarge: Using the Enlarge Spell Metamagic costs you 1/2/4 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Maximize: Using the Maximize Spell Metamagic costs you 3/6/9 fewer Spell Points.

    Archmage: Efficient Metamagic: Choose one of the following Metamagic feats. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic.
    Efficient Empower: Using the Empower Spell Metamagic costs you 2/4/6 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Enlarge: Using the Enlarge Spell Metamagic costs you 1/2/4 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Maximize: Using the Maximize Spell Metamagic costs you 3/6/9 fewer Spell Points.
    Efficient Quicken: Using the Quicken Spell Metamagic costs you 1/2/4 fewer Spell Points.
    The wiki has it worded wrong, if you go in-game and look at the archmage line and click on the metamagic enhancement it comes up as improved maximize not efficient maximize.
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  14. #114
    Undermine Zerger Knight_slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xTethx View Post
    Still I admit to using it, but it doesn't speed my runs up at all.
    In runs where you run out of SP and have to drink pots, every pot you don't have to drink saves you 1-2 seconds. Not a lot of time but time none the less.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight_slayer View Post
    In runs where you run out of SP and have to drink pots, every pot you don't have to drink saves you 1-2 seconds. Not a lot of time but time none the less.
    That's true, but it still seems to be working as intended in terms of description, just seems out of whack that it even has a different name.
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  16. #116
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Have to agree with teth here. Don't see a reason why the maximize stacking should not be WAI. It's not like it's cheap AP wise.
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  17. #117
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Just allow everything and be done with it, nobody can track all bugs.

  18. #118
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    Thank you for all the responses and discussion. I have been following along closely and have come to the following conclusions:

    - Competition relies on fairness, otherwise it loses its credibility; if everyone is cheating then being #1 is meaningless
    - Competition relies on participation, otherwise it loses its value; if only five people are competing then being #1 is meaningless

    While very fair, it is impractical to require evidence in the form of 12 individual videos. While very inclusive, it is also impractical to take every screenshot at face value. Herein lies the debate: striking a balance between fairness and inclusion.

    - Exploits and cheaters will always be a part of this game, and although we can do a pretty good job, we cannot catch all of them
    - The vast majority of top-end players are not cheaters, and are simply interested in improving their game

    That being the case, once the crippling flames bug has been corrected, I have decided to side with inclusion, and address case-by-case accusations of cheating moving forward. When widespread non-WAI bugs crop up, we will adapt the system to deal with it temporarily. This is a laborious process for me but one which has the highest probability of ensuring that this thread doesn't turn into either a playpen of three people trading records or an arena of cheaters. As deterrence I will adopt a zero-tolerance policy. This solution will not please everyone, but unfortunately none will. I still have faith in the majority of the members of our community, and it rests on your shoulders to both play fairly and report earnestly. This is not an endeavor I can hope to achieve alone.

    As a final word, true respect in this game comes from leading by example and teaching others how to be better players. Some of the most productive discussions in both this thread and Hunta's old thread's have come from members of our community sharing their strategies, builds, and advice. The impact that this small group of players has had on the course of this game is immeasurable. I hope that we can all open our community up to others who seek to improve their gameplay, and show that the Omega crowd is not exclusive, but instead this game's greatest asset.
    Last edited by ishr; 04-04-2014 at 06:20 PM.

  19. #119
    Community Member nolifer1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Just allow everything and be done with it, nobody can track all bugs.
    if we talkig about edrick knight broken mastery, we get 75% extra damage with all spells, not only crit but base damage as well, that basically give u over around 300 more spell power, end game sorcser currnt standing spell power is about 450-475, obviously way too moch to ignore, or u think we get over 300 spell pwoer just with 2 more levels when cap goes to 30? i think u can only dream about it, like i says it will be record never beaten, but tread as speed record shold be all about skill respect to self and others, not beeing done by game bugs accidently or not. espesiallly with bugs that add ONLY 75 % damage lol
    Last edited by nolifer1; 04-04-2014 at 07:24 PM.
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  20. #120
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    Thank you for all the responses and discussion. I have been following along closely and have come to the following conclusions:

    - Competition relies on fairness, otherwise it loses its credibility; if everyone is cheating then being #1 is meaningless
    Wouldnt it be fair if everyone are cheating?

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