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Thread: Terrible news

  1. #1
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Default Terrible news

    From Update 21 Patch 1:

    "Fury of the Wild
    Boulder Toss is no longer considered a spell (which means that it can be used in an Antimagic Field), and no longer benefits from Spell Power. The damage has been increased."

    Since most of our builds incorporate Boulder Toss b/c of our force spell power, this change will effectively lower our dps by 10-20% and reduce our ability to do EE.

  2. #2
    Community Member Daitengu's Avatar
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    Makes perfect sense. Why should throwing a boulder be a spell? Its not from a spellcasting ed.

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    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daitengu View Post
    Makes perfect sense. Why should throwing a boulder be a spell? Its not from a spellcasting ed.
    This is a game about high fantasy. My 12 str artie can toss a boulder - clearly, not an objective description of reality. Boulder Toss in an Epic Destiny is part of the power of reaching demigod-like status. It has nothing to do with being strong enough to pick up a boulder that only a giant could hold and throw it with incredible force toward your enemy.

    The simple fact that nerfing Boulder Toss to uselessness for everyone - melee and casters combined, for no melee is going to bother interrupting their attack to throw a tiny amount of damage - equates to ruining force specked artificer builds. No one who runs EE content is going to bother with BT after the change. Arties who incorporated BT b/c of the synergy w/force simply won't be viable after this ridiculous, thoughtless nerf.

    If they were really going to make Boulder Toss "real" then it should be entirely based around str. It's not. It's just a thoughtless nerf to uselessness for everyone.

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    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Like someone else pointed out, if it was Conjure Boulder I could understand. But this is Boulder Toss where you pick up a boulder and throw it. Spell power should never had any affect on it in the first place. I don't understand why people aren't getting this.

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    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Like someone else pointed out, if it was Conjure Boulder I could understand. But this is Boulder Toss where you pick up a boulder and throw it. Spell power should never had any affect on it in the first place. I don't understand why people aren't getting this.
    Agreed.
    and since theyre taking liberties, & moving things up & down the Eds, and moving them back & forth...
    Boulder should b Tier IV minimum. if not V.
    ...and should require Str 50. :P
    but ohhh well.
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    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Like someone else pointed out, if it was Conjure Boulder I could understand. But this is Boulder Toss where you pick up a boulder and throw it. Spell power should never had any affect on it in the first place. I don't understand why people aren't getting this.
    Yep they are just fixing a mistake, adding strength bonuses isn't a bad idea though.

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    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    If they were really going to make Boulder Toss "real" then it should be entirely based around str. It's not. It's just a thoughtless nerf to uselessness for everyone.
    Yup. Boulder Toss's damage should be affected by strength modifier, and it should have a Knockdown chance with a DC based on strength. It's cooldown should be increased. It should work as a good situational ranged option for high-strength melees who don't go the monkcher or manyshot routes.

    However, a new twistable ability should be added to some destiny that functions similarly to the old Boulder Toss, affected by force spell power. Just give it a different name and visual for flavor. It was nice having a non-Shirardi epic ability for force casters.
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    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Like someone else pointed out, if it was Conjure Boulder I could understand. But this is Boulder Toss where you pick up a boulder and throw it. Spell power should never had any affect on it in the first place. I don't understand why people aren't getting this.
    If you're strong barb you rip boulder from the ground and throw it with power of your muscles. You should add strenght to damage.

    If you're puny little wizard, you don't even touch the boulder. You rip it from the ground telekinetically and hurl it at your target with the power of your mind. So you add spellpower to damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Like someone else pointed out, if it was Conjure Boulder I could understand. But this is Boulder Toss where you pick up a boulder and throw it. Spell power should never had any affect on it in the first place. I don't understand why people aren't getting this.
    Because they are looking at game balance and you are looking at descriptions. There are very few caster splashable SLA, and even less that do EE level of damage and use force spell power.

    The only one I'm aware of has a description that would have the exact same problem you had with boulder.

    I would have preferred they change the description, but I know that was not an option because the archers would revolt if they had to share part of their destiny with casters (although the reverse is expected).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    If you're strong barb you rip boulder from the ground and throw it with power of your muscles. You should add strenght to damage.

    If you're puny little wizard, you don't even touch the boulder. You rip it from the ground telekinetically and hurl it at your target with the power of your mind. So you add spellpower to damage.
    It would be great if they would add the old one back to some other destiny.

  11. #11
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    If you're strong barb you rip boulder from the ground and throw it with power of your muscles. You should add strenght to damage.

    If you're puny little wizard, you don't even touch the boulder. You rip it from the ground telekinetically and hurl it at your target with the power of your mind. So you add spellpower to damage.
    Than I should be able to use spell power to add to my barbs weapon damage also.

    A wizard picking up a boulder with telekenisis would have to cast a spell first to do it. Is there such a spell in DDO?

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    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Because they are looking at game balance and you are looking at descriptions. There are very few caster splashable SLA, and even less that do EE level of damage and use force spell power.

    The only one I'm aware of has a description that would have the exact same problem you had with boulder.

    I would have preferred they change the description, but I know that was not an option because the archers would revolt if they had to share part of their destiny with casters (although the reverse is expected).
    So I should be reading between the lines and not what the description of the ED says? Kinda hard not to mistake picking up a boulder and throwing it and misreading that.

  13. #13
    Community Member merridyan's Avatar
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    I imagine this change is in response to another thread about beholder's anti magic field being changed. There was some arguments going on about why is "Boulder toss" considered a spell and blocked by beholder's anti magic field. So now they fixed this, it is no longer a spell and can be used against beholders effectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    So I should be reading between the lines and not what the description of the ED says? Kinda hard not to mistake picking up a boulder and throwing it and misreading that.
    I didn't tell you what you should or should not do... so the answer to your question is No. I did tell you what their perspective was so you could understand what they are coming from. If you had no interest in understanding then next time, don't ask "why"... just have your lil rant and move along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Than I should be able to use spell power to add to my barbs weapon damage also.

    A wizard picking up a boulder with telekenisis would have to cast a spell first to do it. Is there such a spell in DDO?
    Ice storm, meteor storm and splinterbolt all involve physical damage directed at an opponent. I assure you that changing a spell description is less work than coding the spell itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Like someone else pointed out, if it was Conjure Boulder I could understand. But this is Boulder Toss where you pick up a boulder and throw it. Spell power should never had any affect on it in the first place. I don't understand why people aren't getting this.
    My artie has 12 str. Up until now, I could use my magic to pick up a piece of rock and, imbuing it with force, hurl it at my enemies for massive damage.

    So what you're saying is that suddenly I, with a peasant's muscle, can pick up a boulder before only thrown by giants, and toss it into enemies but cannot imbue it with my magic???

    Hint: this isn't a game modelling real life Qualor. No real life physics are involved and no one, in real life, can toss a boulder tens of feet at a dragon to cause it harm. Guess what? Dragons don't exist. This is high fantasy and the devs are destroying an integral part of artificer dps.

    I cannot understand why you don't get that.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    If you're strong barb you rip boulder from the ground and throw it with power of your muscles. You should add strenght to damage.

    If you're puny little wizard, you don't even touch the boulder. You rip it from the ground telekinetically and hurl it at your target with the power of your mind. So you add spellpower to damage.
    Exactly. Well said.

    In a perfect world, Devs would then come up with "Hurl Boulder" or "Conjure Boulder." Sadly, we both know they will not. Arties are going to take a dps loss here and I don't know how we are going to recover.

  18. #18
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Take ruin, problem solved. It also doesn't have the annoying habit of failing because a one inch rise in terrain between caster and target somehow shatters it, midair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    It would be great if they would add the old one back to some other destiny.
    Since they are intent on s*rewing us over, yes, they should give us a replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    Than I should be able to use spell power to add to my barbs weapon damage also.

    A wizard picking up a boulder with telekenisis would have to cast a spell first to do it. Is there such a spell in DDO?
    1. You already have that ability via the Ruby Eyes - their damage output increases via spell power and crit chance. Slot spell power and your fire damage from inferno is increased. If you're EK, you'll do higher damage than non-spell casting melee.

    2. Yes, the wizard is casting 'boulder toss.' - was casting 'boulder toss.' Now they are apparently picking up a boulder and hurling it better than any Olympian could, despite their pathetic str and BAB, better than any melee weapon they wield, all without spell power - albeit, with much, much less damage than they did previously, with magic.

    The change is nonsensical and damaging. It helps no class, no one, and hurts all artificers. It's thoughtless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    Take ruin, problem solved. It also doesn't have the annoying habit of failing because a one inch rise in terrain between caster and target somehow shatters it, midair.
    I missed the part in the update notes where ruin was adjusted to a reasonable casting cost.

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