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  1. #1
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Question Please Turbine check your maths? extra commendations not giving full reward

    From the U21 Release notes

    The XP bonus found on Experience Elixirs, VIP bonuses, Guild Airship amenities and items now also increases the Commendation of Valor return found in End Reward lists.
    Cool, I like this change, but maths are not working right:

    Did 1st Evening Star chain on EE, the usual reward is 30 commendations, I go to get my reward with +5% shrine and +5% from voice, I expect 33, but no I get 32 oh well then I think, maybe each of the bonuses is calculated isolated so 5% of 30 rounding down is 1, 1 + 1 = 2 meh ... maybe

    But when I did the third chain, usual reward is 40 covs then I got 43, which means both bonuses are added at the moment of calculating the extra CoVs but not well applied, one of them shrine or voice is not giving exactly 5%.

    I had experienced this before with rewards from sagas, I remember that there's one of them that gives exactly 100.000 XPs, when I turned it in I always got 9997 or 9998 extra from shrine + voice, well I am not going to coplain for 2 or 3 XPs from 110k but losing always one CoV out of 20-40 because maths are not done properly, well that hurts a bit more.

    Could you please check it?
    Last edited by alvarego; 03-20-2014 at 12:15 PM. Reason: noticed a mistake in numbers, corrected
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  2. #2
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Math never solves problems.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    I can explain this they nerfed the original amount so you are still getting more with the boost just not much more. Of course i didn't do the maths.

  4. #4
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    I can explain this they nerfed the original amount so you are still getting more with the boost just not much more. Of course i didn't do the maths.
    That doesn't really sounds like an explanation ...
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by alvarego View Post
    From the U21 Release notes



    Cool, I like this change, but maths are not working right:

    Did 1st Evening Star chain on EE, the usual reward is 30 commendations, I go to get my reward with +5% shrine and +5% from voice, I expect 33, but no I get 32 oh well then I think, maybe each of the bonuses is calculated isolated so 5% of 30 rounding down is 1, 1 + 1 = 2 meh ... maybe

    But when I did the third chain, usual reward is 40 covs then I got 39, which means both bonuses are added at the moment of calculating the extra CoVs but not well applied, one of them shrine or voice is not giving exactly 5%.

    I had experienced this before with rewards from sagas, I remember that there's one of them that gives exactly 100.000 XPs, when I turned it in I always got 9997 or 9998 extra from shrine + voice, well I am not going to coplain for 2 or 3 XPs from 110k but losing always one CoV out of 20-40 because maths are not done properly, well that hurts a bit more.

    Could you please check it?

    Aye, this is a long time problem with bonus experience and renown. I noticed it a long time ago, but I never reported it, because.... well.... some algorythmic error taking away 1 point of exp/renown from each (side)quest done/reward taken is meaningless. It means that i loose less then 1000 exp per life, which is simply NOT a problem. or 1000 renown per 3 months, which is also... meh.

    But cutting out comms is problematic. I completely agree. Problem is - this seems like pretty deep issue, as it is influencing ton of math in the game (Propably plat and dragonshard numbers as well, possibly even dmg rolls?)

    Any word from dev responsible for math in the game would be apreticiated!
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  6. #6
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    Aye, this is a long time problem with bonus experience and renown. I noticed it a long time ago, but I never reported it, because.... well.... some algorythmic error taking away 1 point of exp/renown from each (side)quest done/reward taken is meaningless. It means that i loose less then 1000 exp per life, which is simply NOT a problem. or 1000 renown per 3 months, which is also... meh.

    But cutting out comms is problematic. I completely agree. Problem is - this seems like pretty deep issue, as it is influencing ton of math in the game (Propably plat and dragonshard numbers as well, possibly even dmg rolls?)

    Any word from dev responsible for math in the game would be apreticiated!
    Well I don't know about the guts in DDO coding (at the same time I would like and I am not sure I would dare if I had the chance ), but the solution is as simple as in the last calculation of commendations make a round(), it's hard to believe this is so difficult to solve, and well if they eat 1 out of 2-8 extra commendations that's a really really big mistake.
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  7. #7
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    Agreed, a few xp per quest is not an issue, but loosing cov's is.

    Also, dev's, while you're at it, could you please include the bonus from lesser and greater epic tomes of learning? You know, the things we actually pay Turbine Points for in the shop??
    You might sell a few more tomes then...

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

  8. #8
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Default Just completed Menace of the Underdark Saga ...

    134.000 XPs true elite:

    (Advancement): Your experience point bonus effect gave you 13,399 bonus experience points!

    Will keep checking and next time I get a 40 comms reward I'll get reward only with voice, or only with airship bonus try to find which fails, but fearing that most probably both will :-|
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  9. #9
    2015 DDO Players Council MangLord's Avatar
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    I don't feel like it would break the game if they round up instead of down. Seems like another nickel and dime move to ensure we aren't catching a break and basking in power.

  10. #10
    Community Member Tristitia's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, when does this bonus apply? Say, I had experience elixier active when I completed the quest, then it run out when it was time to talk to the npc to get end reward. Will I receive bonus comms then in the end reward? Or, say, I had no experience elixier while I completed the quest and then just before I talked to the npc to get end reward, I drank experience elixier... will I get more comms then?

  11. #11
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangLord View Post
    I don't feel like it would break the game if they round up instead of down. Seems like another nickel and dime move to ensure we aren't catching a break and basking in power.
    Well I don't even ask for round up, simply round right, the 10% of 40 is 4, not 3 ... but well rounding up would solve this and be a nice move

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristitia View Post
    Out of curiosity, when does this bonus apply? Say, I had experience elixier active when I completed the quest, then it run out when it was time to talk to the npc to get end reward. Will I receive bonus comms then in the end reward? Or, say, I had no experience elixier while I completed the quest and then just before I talked to the npc to get end reward, I drank experience elixier... will I get more comms then?
    The bonus applies when you turn in reward
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  12. #12
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOrm View Post
    Agreed, a few xp per quest is not an issue, but loosing cov's is.

    Also, dev's, while you're at it, could you please include the bonus from lesser and greater epic tomes of learning? You know, the things we actually pay Turbine Points for in the shop??
    You might sell a few more tomes then...

    Greetz,
    Red Orm
    This !!!!

    Geez, why would you penalize the players that paid $$ for tomes of learning by NOT including them in your equation.
    Didn't understand it when you guys came up with this, and I still don't.

    What is a couple more commendations per run really going to break?
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  13. #13

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    I did a very small amount of testing on this. My guess was that the bonus applies to the base CoV amount for the quest, as in the EN value. I'm also fairly certain the CoV value is set at quest completion time, not turn in time - i ran two wheloon quests, forgot my voice in one, turned both in with voice on, received fewer CoV for the one with no voice at completion.
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  14. #14
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Yeah the bonuses are not stacking right. They should turn on some loot output for the rewards so we can get the inside info.

  15. #15
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    sounds like tirbine needs to install a math app (thats starts when the computer starts) i could see it rounding down. like the number of players playing the game

  16. #16
    Community Member Tscheuss's Avatar
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    In some programming languages, there may be issues with floating point data type. This is addressed by using a fixed point data type for things like money. While XP and comms are apparently integers, the bonuses are probably floats. Changing the data types of all affected variables would be a huge job. :/
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  17. #17
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    Can we get some Dev message onto this?

    Something like: We are investigating will do just fine.

    Somethig like: We know of this and it is basically impossible to fix it without breaking half of the game will... well, do.

    Something like: We know of this and its because of this and this and that and that would have to change.... would be awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
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  18. #18
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyvy3369 View Post
    I did a very small amount of testing on this. My guess was that the bonus applies to the base CoV amount for the quest, as in the EN value. I'm also fairly certain the CoV value is set at quest completion time, not turn in time - i ran two wheloon quests, forgot my voice in one, turned both in with voice on, received fewer CoV for the one with no voice at completion.
    Bonuses apply when you take end reward, take reward with voice on and take 1 with voice off, you will notice.

  19. #19
    Community Member alvarego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    Can we get some Dev message onto this?

    Something like: We are investigating will do just fine.

    Somethig like: We know of this and it is basically impossible to fix it without breaking half of the game will... well, do.

    Something like: We know of this and its because of this and this and that and that would have to change.... would be awesome.
    /signed ... any Dev have something to say why we're losing commendations for wrong maths and how long we can expect this to be fixed or even addressed?

    I know they're granted for free yes, but if you're gonna gift them, well just do it right, huh?
    Under and behind and inside everything this man took for granted, something horrible had been growing.

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