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  1. #1
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    Default Proof of shiradi OPness

    The main issue I have with shiradi, is not that it makes geared, skilled players OP, but that it makes ungeared, absurd builds viable in EE content
    EE is supposed to be the content for those with some gear who thought their build through. To proof that Shiradi bypasses this, I've used my +20 heart to reroll my bard into a weird wizard/rogue build before TR'ing him. The build would never have worked without shiradi, but with shiradi, this was the result. Time display was bugged then but quite accurate (more like 35 minutes)

    Again, keep in mind that this build is totally gimped, and was intended to be gimped


    Ainevek: 9/6/2 FvS/ranger/paladin (life 2/?) Shinweng: 8/5/2 monk/wizard/paladin (life 4/3?Abaranda: 18/2 FvS/monk (life 7/?) Kevenia: 6 sorcerer (life 2/?)
    Two handed chruchers, Ghallanda

  2. #2
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    More importantly this proofs that you can make something useful out of a bard.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Kalimah's Avatar
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    Kevin would you say in this case then that other classes need to be buffed or shiradi to be nerfed?

    IMO buff all the classes to have viable options at end game, not nerf the handfull that do.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Ryethielnas's Avatar
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    I really don't mean to act all "elitist" and such... But I've always felt like EE Lords of Dust could be done on an off destiny, while blindfolded, and both arms tied behind your back.

    I hope it's not just me.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    The main issue I have with shiradi, is not that it makes geared, skilled players OP, but that it makes ungeared, absurd builds viable in EE content
    EE is supposed to be the content for those with some gear who thought their build through. To proof that Shiradi bypasses this, I've used my +20 heart to reroll my bard into a weird wizard/rogue build before TR'ing him. The build would never have worked without shiradi, but with shiradi, this was the result. Time display was bugged then but quite accurate (more like 35 minutes)

    Again, keep in mind that this build is totally gimped, and was intended to be gimped


    I don't know your feats and enhancements, but I could certainly make that build and those stats work in EE lod in Fury and LD. I'm not sure you're making the point you're trying to make.

    Yes, Shiradi is overpowered for casters, but this isn't proof of that. This is just proof that there's no challenge left in the game. The problem with shiradi stems from comparative power.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Kevin would you say in this case then that other classes need to be buffed or shiradi to be nerfed?

    IMO buff all the classes to have viable options at end game, not nerf the handfull that do.
    The problem with this is that the game is already too easy. It can't withstand a mass buff to bring things equal to other overpowered things. The overpowered things need to be nerfed, then everything needs to be nerfed on top of that, and then content difficulty needs to be increased.

  7. #7
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimah View Post
    Kevin would you say in this case then that other classes need to be buffed or shiradi to be nerfed?

    IMO buff all the classes to have viable options at end game, not nerf the handfull that do.
    This 3 times over!

    The problem with the other EDs (except for Fury, Primal, Shiradi, and to some lesser extend Draconic, GM of Flowers and Shadowdancer; honorable mention to some twists from Dreadnought) is, that for EE high end content they s u c k.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryethielnas View Post
    I really don't mean to act all "elitist" and such... But I've always felt like EE Lords of Dust could be done on an off destiny, while blindfolded, and both arms tied behind your back.

    I hope it's not just me.
    You're not being elitist. Lords of Dust is like "my first quest". It's the E-Z Bake oven of quests. The only "hard" bit is the one chick who can toss 600 damage spells, but she isn't hard if you have any CC or evasion, which OP had both.

  9. #9
    Community Member Artecon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    The main issue I have with shiradi, is not that it makes geared, skilled players OP, but that it makes ungeared, absurd builds viable in EE content
    EE is supposed to be the content for those with some gear who thought their build through. To proof that Shiradi bypasses this, I've used my +20 heart to reroll my bard into a weird wizard/rogue build before TR'ing him. The build would never have worked without shiradi, but with shiradi, this was the result. Time display was bugged then but quite accurate (more like 35 minutes)

    Again, keep in mind that this build is totally gimped, and was intended to be gimped



    /golf clap

    you managed to complete EE on the EASIEST EE quest in the game, a blind monkey playing a pure healbot cleric could complete EE LoD
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  10. #10
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    Default Gimp Fail

    First off, lords of dust is a pretty easy ee, but others have said that.

    Fact is tho thats not a gimp build really if you were planning on using shiradii, you have 12 wiz lvls... then add in you have evasion and good enough reflex to make saves in that quest and undead immunities, displacement, incorp, self healing.

    Would 18wiz/2rog have been a better version of the build? Most likely, but that build is very good for kiting, which is what youre doing, and has slas.

    If i wanted to make a gimp build for shiradii destiny id make a build with poor reflex(making kiting harder), few or no slas, poor or no self healing/displacement/incorp.

    bard4/ranger8/barbarian8 spamming entangle and charm between wand casts.

    I should add that i imagine i could solo many ees with that build, lol.


    EDIT: lol, just noticed you also went AA, which is also very strong in shiradii, add in sneak damage and arrow of slaying.

    IMO you are actually being misleading intentionally saying that build is gimp.
    Last edited by 01000010; 03-18-2014 at 10:19 AM.

  11. #11
    Community Member jaegarnel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    This 3 times over!

    The problem with the other EDs (except for Fury, Primal, Shiradi, and to some lesser extend Draconic, GM of Flowers and Shadowdancer; honorable mention to some twists from Dreadnought) is, that for EE high end content they s u c k.
    The fact that you only include Dreadnought for "some twists" shows you don't know anything about EDs.
    LD is the most powerful ED for non-casters when soloing due to the completely OP Blitz. It's not quite as nice when in a group, but still much better than Primal Avatar or Shadowdancer.

    Personally, I'd rather that they make EH and EE harder than they currently are (and not in a stupid "give the mobs 10 times more hp and 5 times more damage" way either) and then bring the other EDs up to the power of Shiradi, Dreadnought and Fury. Because if content stays at the same difficulty as now, boosting every ED to Shiradi levels would simply make just about everything in the game trivial.

  12. #12
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    The problem with this is that the game is already too easy. It can't withstand a mass buff to bring things equal to other overpowered things. The overpowered things need to be nerfed, then everything needs to be nerfed on top of that, and then content difficulty needs to be increased.
    If the new content is any indication of the direction the game is taking, with enemies using epic destiny abilities... ok it's not all the mobs, in fact it's only 3 of them, i think, but still. It might even things out a bit.

  13. #13
    Community Member nolifer1's Avatar
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    35 min not so op, shirady is op only if u get +10 stat tea aka 5 min of joy once in full moon
    i run this quest ee with dragonic under 10 min on ee

    edit just knotice u are ranged dps, still its way much faster in fury or blitz
    Last edited by nolifer1; 03-18-2014 at 10:32 AM.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    you beat LoD in 35 minutes. how does that prove anything? many builds could do this.

    troll attempt 3/10.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryethielnas View Post
    I really don't mean to act all "elitist" and such... But I've always felt like EE Lords of Dust could be done on an off destiny, while blindfolded, and both arms tied behind your back.

    I hope it's not just me.
    I think it's probably the easiest EE.

    But that said, it's still EE and difficult to solo if you aren't using a god mode build like Shirardi Sorc, monkcher or melee with Master's Blitz. I soloed this on EE on my Melee Cleric at lvl 24 in the Fury destiny, it was tough but made it through.

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  16. #16
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    More importantly this proofs that you can make something useful out of a bard.
    What're taking about, bards can hjeal meh.

  17. #17
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    The main issue I have with shiradi, is not that it makes geared, skilled players OP, but that it makes ungeared, absurd builds viable in EE content
    Thats the main reason I like shiradi. It helps the game not be restricted to the same 4 builds.

    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    EE is supposed to be the content for those with some gear who thought their build through.
    Perhaps what you are calling "absurd builds" were thought through, and thats why they work.

    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    To proof that Shiradi bypasses this, I've used my +20 heart to reroll my bard into a weird wizard/rogue build before TR'ing him. The build would never have worked without shiradi, but with shiradi, this was the result. Time display was bugged then but quite accurate (more like 35 minutes)

    Again, keep in mind that this build is totally gimped, and was intended to be gimped


    That build would not be hard to make work without shiradi. Its just easier to make work with shiradi. Prob easy in fury/LD as well, since you are an AA with manyshot+pinion.

    Im glad some flavor builds can be productive in EE. It keeps the game fresh knowing there are more options that can be of value rather than having to run EE in the same 2 destinies with the same 4 builds.

    Youre also using EE LOD as proof of shiradi being OP?
    Last edited by Chai; 03-18-2014 at 10:52 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    First off, lords of dust is a pretty easy ee, but others have said that.

    Fact is tho thats not a gimp build really if you were planning on using shiradii, you have 12 wiz lvls... then add in you have evasion and good enough reflex to make saves in that quest and undead immunities, displacement, incorp, self healing.

    Would 18wiz/2rog have been a better version of the build? Most likely, but that build is very good for kiting, which is what youre doing, and has slas.

    If i wanted to make a gimp build for shiradii destiny id make a build with poor reflex(making kiting harder), few or no slas, poor or no self healing/displacement/incorp.

    bard4/ranger8/barbarian8 spamming entangle and charm between wand casts.

    I should add that i imagine i could solo many ees with that build, lol.


    EDIT: lol, just noticed you also went AA, which is also very strong in shiradii, add in sneak damage and arrow of slaying.

    IMO you are actually being misleading intentionally saying that build is gimp.
    No slaying arrows, high dex with low strength, sneak damage and ranged has always been something weird
    I did intentionally go gimp

    Also, this was done back when karas hit insanely much for an EE low lvl quest boss
    Ainevek: 9/6/2 FvS/ranger/paladin (life 2/?) Shinweng: 8/5/2 monk/wizard/paladin (life 4/3?Abaranda: 18/2 FvS/monk (life 7/?) Kevenia: 6 sorcerer (life 2/?)
    Two handed chruchers, Ghallanda

  19. #19
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    More importantly this proofs that you can make something useful out of a bard.
    The OPness of LD & FotW means the perceived inherent gimpiness of bards is also a non-issue. But let's ridicule one OP ED at a time...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryethielnas View Post
    I really don't mean to act all "elitist" and such... But I've always felt like EE Lords of Dust could be done on an off destiny, while blindfolded, and both arms tied behind your back.
    It's the easiest quest in the WoC chain, which is hardly the hardest epic chain in DDO. If he had soloed the drow ritual in EE Servants with a "gimp" build, then that might've been more impressive.
    Quote Originally Posted by keveniaftw View Post
    No slaying arrows, high dex with low strength, sneak damage and ranged has always been something weird
    I did intentionally go gimp
    You still created a build designed to exploit Shiradi procs - longbow w/Manyshot, Missile spells (AM SLAs?), repeaters - just like, well, every other Shiradi build. You did it in an unconventional manner, but that alone doesn't make it a "gimp" build. Plus you've got pretty decent survivability: Evasion w/high Reflex saves, Displacement, almost 500 HPs, etc. If anything, your build is a testament to the flexibility of DDO's mechanics, so people don't have to feel discouraged by not playing a FotM build.

    You really wanna prove your point, make a CON-based dwarf pally using throwing axes in Shiradi, then come back when you can show off how totally awesome it is in semi-challenging EE content.

  20. #20
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    35 minutes?!?

    35 minutes and you are calling shiradi OP???

    LOD is among the easiest EE quests in the game. This must be a troll. I can't imagine spending 35 minutes in there. Maybe on my gimp twf pure fighter in an off destingy....but he's pure fighter with limited UMD.

    All I can say is that you demonstrated how miserable your shiradi build is.

    35 minutes???

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