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  1. #1
    Community Member Linvak's Avatar
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    Default Epic Melee Viability: TRing out of Barb

    I'm about to cap a 3rd life barb after returning to the game about a month ago after 1.5 years off, and I'm noticing almost 0 barbs played in epics. I know range and monks are all the rage right now, but I'm looking to avoid this. As much as 19-20 x8 greataxe crits sound, it's probably not enough in a survivability sense.

    I have a couple ideas I'd like to bounce off you guys, and others are welcomed. These are going to be fairly plain and vanilla builds, I'm looking more for the class/level/playstyle aspect then getting down to specifics.

    As far as races - Horc for extra str, Dwarf if thinking about picks/Daxes, or Human if enough enhancements for heal amp.
    Weaps - I'm leaning towards Bswords for early and end game viability, but also looking into Daxe for a decent crit multiplier from LD.

    1. 11/8/1 ranger/fighter/monk
    Basically a tempest, centered kensai for monk stance. Able to range decently, but primarily dual wielding.

    2. 20 ranger
    Full blown tempest with either AA splash, or gabbing some extra dmg/executes through deep wood just looks fun but not sure about survivability. Remember I'm looking primarily to be in melee form.

    3. 12/8 fighter/monk
    Skipping ranger/range, grabbing the +8 str from kensai core and more monk. Unlimited feats basically. There's also a possibility of staying two handed with this build since I still have ESoS and Lit2 GS. Aslo, I only have 1 box on this guy, staying thf would make things more simple. But I feel like you lose a lot of durability going thf.

    I like the sounds of 1 and 2 but I'd like to hear some thoughts, or if I should give up in current meta lol
    Basically I'm looking for epic viability out of a dual wield other then rogue/monk.

    Thanks

    EDIT: I may have worded my title wrong. I'm TRing out of a barbaian. I'm looking for some ranger/fighter builds most of all, but again, I'm open.

    FIXED***
    Last edited by Linvak; 03-14-2014 at 02:07 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Welcome back. The game is in a really good place now imho. A friend used this barb build to solo EE What Goes Up which is pretty much the definition of survivability if you're looking to stay raged.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...arbarian-Build
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 03-14-2014 at 12:19 PM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  3. #3
    Community Member Linvak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    Welcome back. The game is in a really good place now imho. A friend used this barb build to solo EE What Goes Up which is pretty much the definition of survivability.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...arbarian-Build
    Ya iv taken a look at that a few times. It's looks pretty fun, but maybe a bit too intensive. I might try it out later or another life after I get some epic gear waiting. As of now, my barb is pretty plain, not even ToD sets. I think tempest and kensai are much easier paths which is what I think I need until I get the hang of epics. My rogue makes epics too easy, so a bit of inflation from that aspect. But this will definitely keep me interested in barb.

  4. #4
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linvak View Post
    Ya iv taken a look at that a few times. It's looks pretty fun, but maybe a bit too intensive. I might try it out later or another life after I get some epic gear waiting. As of now, my barb is pretty plain, not even ToD sets. I think tempest and kensai are much easier paths which is what I think I need until I get the hang of epics. My rogue makes epics too easy, so a bit of inflation from that aspect. But this will definitely keep me interested in barb.
    Agreed, gear and silver flame pots are a significant part of that build's survivability. Out of interest have you checked your character's inventory for raiders reward boxes? These were issued after some Caught In The Web difficulties - they would go a long way to helping you out. You might have one or two - if THF Cleaver is a solid choice, if TWF Mornh is my personal weapon of choice. If you ever want to play a ranged character the Pinion bow is very nice

    If you are struggling for gear I'd build in some survivability/healing through your class selection. Ranger levels are good all round as they give you some heals, free feats and the quicken feat: which is excellent for SLAs or Rejuvination Cocoon which is a large part of epic self healing.

    Saves on a melee are also more important than they were before, hence the popularity of monk levels and pali splashes. The former gets more stick than the latter, though they are both super powerful, especially with a pali splash getting the ability to twist in divine might for a bunch of extra strength.
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 03-14-2014 at 12:20 PM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  5. #5
    Community Member Linvak's Avatar
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    I have one Raiders box on this toon, which is why staying THF would make gear easier on the grind haha. I was even thinking about pinion if I had any ranger at all even though I wanted to main melee. I wish that quest was run more, hard enough for my rogue to get all he wants even starting with 2 boxes : p

    But ya, I'm definitely leaning towards tempest/Kensai with monk for mountain stance.

  6. #6
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    I run a centered kensai with 6 monk levels and a pali splash, who is a melee/ranged hybrid. Having both ranged and melee capabilities probably requires at least +4 tomes if not +5s so that might be out. I'm trying to find Ethrayne's "no yellow bar" build which would satisfy your needs I think and more than keeps up with the kensai in groups. If you have one box I'd probably take pinion to be honest. There are decent non raid melee weapons which are easier to obtain in the short term.

    edit: here you go

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...adin-1Fighter)
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 03-14-2014 at 12:16 PM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  7. #7
    Community Member Linvak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    I run a centered kensai with 6 monk levels and a pali splash, who is a melee/ranged hybrid. Having both ranged and melee capabilities probably requires at least +4 tomes if not +5s so that might be out. I'm trying to find Ethrayne's no mana abr build which would satisfy your needs I think. If you have one box I'd probably take pinion to be honest. There are decent non raid weapons which are easier to obtain in the short term.
    Ya I have +5 STR and con on him already, and I'm not against supreming him out since int/wis/cha actually mean something to non barb. And ya, was thinking not much matches pinion, so it's a safe grab. What is 6 monk getting other than 4 feats, free tier 1 stance over just going 1 or 2? Are there enhancements worth 4/5 more levels?

    And I do like the looks of that, warhammers just aren't my flavor haha. If I got lucky enough to get 2 which take awhile either way I'd look more into builds oriented around them.
    Last edited by Linvak; 03-14-2014 at 12:24 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linvak View Post
    Ya I have +5 STR and con on him already, and I'm not against supreming him out since int/wis/cha actually mean something to non barb. And ya, was thinking not much matches pinion, so it's a safe grab. What is 6 monk getting other than 4 feats, free tier 1 stance over just going 1 or 2? Are there enhancements worth 4/5 more levels?
    On a centered monk kensai you need to hit 17 wis and dex for zen archery and many shot respectively. Thats before you touch on your three main stats of str cha and con. Twfers will need their dex earlier which eats up further build points.

    6 monk buys you some low hanging heal amp,evasion, feats, shadow fade incorporeality (25% miss chance which will tide you over till you make a few displacement clickes,) ninja poison (melee damage over time poison) and perhaps most powerfully the ability to "twist" in the epic destiny ability Dance Of Flowers which ups your damage type while centered. So a 1d8 khopesh would become 2d6 and so on. You could also take master and grandmaster of forms with only 6 levels (i settle for master of forms)

    Without tomes you could try a simple str con cha centered kensai with dex if you need twf. I love being able to do both though and have actually worked Improved Precise Shot into mine for quick super powerful manyshots between haste boost twf goodness.

    Good examples of this are cetus and carpone's build. Mine is closer to Cetus' but I really really miss having an "oh s**t" quickened heal which you get with a slightly different class split

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...er-Build-Cetus

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ntered-Cleaver
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 03-14-2014 at 12:33 PM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  9. #9
    Community Member Linvak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    On a centered monk kensai you need to hit 17 wis and dex for zen archery and many shot respectively. Thats before you touch on your three main stats of str cha and con. Twfers will need their dex earlier which eats up further build points.

    6 monk buys you some low hanging heal amp,evasion, feats, shadow fade incorporeality (25% miss chance which will tide you over till you make a few displacement clickes,) ninja poison (melee damage over time poison) and perhaps most powerfully the ability to "twist" in the epic destiny ability Dance Of Flowers which ups your damage type while centered. So a 1d8 khopesh would become 2d6 and so on. You could also take master and grandmaster of forms with only 6 levels (i settle for master of forms)

    Without tomes you could try a simple str con cha centered kensai with dex if you need twf. I love being able to do both though and have actually worked Improved Precise Shot into mine for quick super powerful manyshots between haste boost twf goodness.
    Zen Archery is for Ten thousand stars right? Or is there another purpose?

    I really wanted to limit my ranging to pinion, manyshot and maybe some AA. If I decide I need to jump on the bandwagon, I'll make a full blown monker : p

    I'm just surprised there are not more tempest main builds out there. It must not look as good as I thought lol.

  10. #10
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Zen archery buys you the ability to stay centered when using your pinion therefore doing more damage (with dance of flowers) and staying in stance. There's no substitute for experience - you'll find what works for you. Of all I've linked here I'd go for Eth's build to get back into the game and give you and idea of what to build for later.

    Have to go to work now (boo) but will check this thread again later - I'm sure as the Americans get home from work they'll offer an opinion or two.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  11. #11
    Community Member Linvak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    Zen archery buys you the ability to stay centered when using your pinion therefore doing more damage (with dance of flowers) and staying in stance. There's no substitute for experience - you'll find what works for you. Of all I've linked here I'd go for Eth's build to get back into the game and give you and idea of what to build for later.

    Have to go to work now (boo) but will check this thread again later - I'm sure as the Americans get home from work they'll offer an opinion or two.
    I like that cleaver build, I will look into that more when I get home. Already at work : p thanks for ur help mate.

  12. #12
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    I've got a 28 Barb and also another melee who plays similarly: I'm liking this build for self-buff byoh melee (remember Divine Might adds a Bard cha bonus to all the juicy attack rolls)
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...layer-Friendly

    Or don't and stay barbarian. Have you tried running in Legendary Dreadnought destiny? Rank twists of fate? Unyielding Sentinel ED with primal healing twists? These are viable epic options for a barbarian to solo (some content) and hang fine in byoh EE (some content) without a dedicated healer. Add in a friendly guild FVS and you really have few downsides to epic barbarian.
    -------------------
    Anatir the Wild Man - Pure Barbarian
    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
    Cannith

  13. #13
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    Unyielding Sentinel ED with primal healing twists?
    Can a raging barb in US use LoH, or rather Light the Dark? I know Rage blocks SLAs like Rejuv Cocoon, but it'd never occurred to me before to try LtD.

    OP: you may also want to consider a heavy cleric / FvS splash for Divine Might and Smite Foe / Weakness / Ameliorating Strike; have a look at the Battleragers thread.

  14. #14
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Can a raging barb in US use LoH, or rather Light the Dark? I know Rage blocks SLAs like Rejuv Cocoon, but it'd never occurred to me before to try LtD.

    OP: you may also want to consider a heavy cleric / FvS splash for Divine Might and Smite Foe / Weakness / Ameliorating Strike; have a look at the Battleragers thread.
    Yes it is legit in-battle AOE heal. My build gets four regenerating uses (I don't twist it yet being T4). It hits me for 500+. Cocoon is used only when you slip away and un-rage or between fights. The Healing Spring one works while raged (primal shiradi T1) and you can twist in a T2 fey spring to get more uses between rest. It is an aoe HoT that ticks every 20 seconds for about 200 w/ heal amp.

    Bottom line is that if the OP has not explored leveling EDs for his Barbarian, it may be eye-opening. I will admit the common knowledge is correct right now: even with great EDs barbs are woefully non self-sufficient . But this iconic role can't be allowed to die from DDO...there are ways....
    -------------------
    Anatir the Wild Man - Pure Barbarian
    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
    Cannith

  15. #15
    Community Member Linvak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    Yes it is legit in-battle AOE heal. My build gets four regenerating uses (I don't twist it yet being T4). It hits me for 500+. Cocoon is used only when you slip away and un-rage or between fights. The Healing Spring one works while raged (primal shiradi T1) and you can twist in a T2 fey spring to get more uses between rest. It is an aoe HoT that ticks every 20 seconds for about 200 w/ heal amp.

    Bottom line is that if the OP has not explored leveling EDs for his Barbarian, it may be eye-opening. I will admit the common knowledge is correct right now: even with great EDs barbs are woefully non self-sufficient . But this iconic role can't be allowed to die from DDO...there are ways....
    Ya, I'm sorry it's fallen out of favor, and the ED healing twists help no doubt, but that's a lot of leveling to afford all that, which would suck....a lot haha. Right now I want something new, and when I'm ready, I will explore barb again.

  16. #16
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linvak View Post
    Ya, I'm sorry it's fallen out of favor, and the ED healing twists help no doubt, but that's a lot of leveling to afford all that, which would suck....a lot haha. Right now I want something new, and when I'm ready, I will explore barb again.
    I wish you the best of fortune in your journey. The best part is that EDs and their levels will last through your heroic and epic TRs. Many of them are used by a variety of class/roles...so you will find a win-win as you grind them out on your build.
    -------------------
    Anatir the Wild Man - Pure Barbarian
    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
    Cannith

  17. #17
    Community Member Linvak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    I wish you the best of fortune in your journey. The best part is that EDs and their levels will last through your heroic and epic TRs. Many of them are used by a variety of class/roles...so you will find a win-win as you grind them out on your build.
    Ya, that's the plan, thank you guys for some insight, Im definitely going to save some of these ideas.

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