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  1. #1
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Default Drop rates of Phlogiston on EE

    Is this supposed to be only 1 even on EE? I thought EE had a chance to drop 0-3 Phlogistons (old Dragon souls).
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  2. #2
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    I thought it was supposed to be roughly double drops on EH and triple on EE.

    The difference between EN and EH seems about that, but I haven't completed either raid on EE so I don't know about EE.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Egeus's Avatar
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    0-3 implies that you could still get 1. Did your whole party get 0/1? Might be borked, might just be bad luck.

    Personally I think it should follow a more scaled model, with

    * EN: 0-1 [0^.5 | 1^0.5] (~0.5/run, aka "try your luck" for less experienced players, takes ~50 runs to craft)
    * EH: 1-2 [1^0.75 | 2^0.25] (1.25/run, no fails, a solid grind of ~20 runs for players that can trounce EN but don't have the support system -- high-end guild, private channel, mass monkcher multi-boxing -- for EE)
    * EE: 1-4 [1^0.15 | 2^0.35 | 3^0.35 | 4^0.15 ] (~2.5/run, at ~10 the path to crafting success is half as long for those few that can make it work reliably)

    Assuming that EE scales over EH the way most things do, I think this would provide better incentive (literally half the runs) for EE. That said, I don't know the weighting of the drop rates currently, but the prospect of having to run an EE(!) raid >20 times to craft a single item is Messed. Up.
    Last edited by Egeus; 03-12-2014 at 02:49 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egeus View Post
    0-3 implies that you could still get 1. Did your whole party get 0/1? Might be borked, might just be bad luck.

    Personally I think it should follow a more scaled model, with

    * EN: 0-1 [0^.5 | 1^0.5] (~0.5/run, aka "try your luck" for less experienced players, takes ~50 runs to craft)
    * EH: 1-2 [1^0.75 | 2^0.25] (1.25/run, no fails, a solid grind of ~20 runs for players that can trounce EN but don't have the support system -- high-end guild, private channel, mass monkcher multi-boxing -- for EE)
    * EE: 1-4 [1^0.15 | 2^0.35 | 3^0.35 | 4^0.15 ] (~2.5/run, at ~10 the path to crafting success is half as long for those few that can make it work reliably)

    Assuming that EE scales over EH the way most things do, I think this would provide better incentive (literally half the runs) for EE. That said, I don't know the weighting of the drop rates currently, but the prospect of having to run an EE(!) raid >20 times to craft a single item is Messed. Up.
    I agree with this in theory but I would go a step farther and say that ~ 50 runs on EN to craft 1 stick is totally messed up. I have 4 level 28 characters and I want 2 weapons each...so I have to do 400 raids to equip them with weapons? Wow!!!! This is an end game raid designed for level 30 characters so to expect us to be able to run beyond EN isn't fair at this point IMO.
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  5. #5
    Community Member shadowowl's Avatar
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    I did 8 runs on EH yesterday and got 3 (1 at a time) so not sure if I'm just unlucky or if that is what is to be expected. though based on how many ingots and scales i need to craft my weapons the Phlogiston is still the least of my worry since it will still take far more runs to get enough of those then it will even getting 3/8 odds on the phlogistons.

  6. #6
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egeus View Post
    0-3 implies that you could still get 1. Did your whole party get 0/1? Might be borked, might just be bad luck.

    Personally I think it should follow a more scaled model, with

    * EN: 0-1 [0^.5 | 1^0.5] (~0.5/run, aka "try your luck" for less experienced players, takes ~50 runs to craft)
    * EH: 1-2 [1^0.75 | 2^0.25] (1.25/run, no fails, a solid grind of ~20 runs for players that can trounce EN but don't have the support system -- high-end guild, private channel, mass monkcher multi-boxing -- for EE)
    * EE: 1-4 [1^0.15 | 2^0.35 | 3^0.35 | 4^0.15 ] (~2.5/run, at ~10 the path to crafting success is half as long for those few that can make it work reliably)

    Assuming that EE scales over EH the way most things do, I think this would provide better incentive (literally half the runs) for EE. That said, I don't know the weighting of the drop rates currently, but the prospect of having to run an EE(!) raid >20 times to craft a single item is Messed. Up.
    The whole raid got 1. Some re-rolls were without a Phlogiston so it is not even guaranteed on EE.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    The whole raid got 1. Some re-rolls were without a Phlogiston so it is not even guaranteed on EE.
    So much for "much more" ingredients for higher difficulty levels. Unless you can only expect on every 10-15 runs on EN. :/

  8. #8
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Only ever seen 1 drop on at a time even on EE

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  9. #9
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    The whole raid got 1. Some re-rolls were without a Phlogiston so it is not even guaranteed on EE.
    That is a totally pathetic drop rate. These new weapons are a massive grind.

    Has anyone done the math on approx # of raids (of both kinds) to create a tier 3 weapon?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    The whole raid got 1. Some re-rolls were without a Phlogiston so it is not even guaranteed on EE.
    Less than half received on EN and about half received on EH so I would say the proportions are about what I expected. If only the re-rolls didn't get one I think it's bugged. The raids aren't even supposed to have a re-roll option in the first place.

    However long it takes on EE it's longer on EH and longer still on EN. I guess they wanted to make sure people didn't complain about nothing to do at endgame. It will take me a while to gear up my 2 characters.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    That is a totally pathetic drop rate. These new weapons are a massive grind.

    Has anyone done the math on approx # of raids (of both kinds) to create a tier 3 weapon?
    You need 30 Phlogiston and 1180 ingots for T3.

    With 1 Phlogiston (not guaranteed) and ~25 ingots per run on EE this will take 47 runs. However, Ingots can be acquired from wilderness chests too so let's just say a bit over 30 runs.

    Which I kinda like honestly, so the raids won't die after a short time. I'd honestly upgrade the ingots drop and make the Phlogiston guaranteed on EE.

    Say 60% on EN, 80% on EH and 100% on EE for 1 guaranteed + a 20% chance to get a 2nd one for Phlogiston.

    Also make the ingots be 35-50 on EE.
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  12. #12
    Bacon Queen MadCookieQueen's Avatar
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    Feels like the same drop rate as Heroic Comms on Caught in the Web when it first came out >.<


    If you need me i'll be raiding....and raiding....and raiding....and maybe sleeping....and then raiding...ugh

  13. #13
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadCookieQueen View Post
    Feels like the same drop rate as Heroic Comms on Caught in the Web when it first came out >.<


    If you need me i'll be raiding....and raiding....and raiding....and maybe sleeping....and then raiding...ugh
    Not worth it for me. Too much of a grind. I play to have fun not for mindless grinding.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    You need 30 Phlogiston and 1180 ingots for T3.

    With 1 Phlogiston (not guaranteed) and ~25 ingots per run on EE this will take 47 runs. However, Ingots can be acquired from wilderness chests too so let's just say a bit over 30 runs.

    Which I kinda like honestly, so the raids won't die after a short time. I'd honestly upgrade the ingots drop and make the Phlogiston guaranteed on EE.

    Say 60% on EN, 80% on EH and 100% on EE for 1 guaranteed + a 20% chance to get a 2nd one for Phlogiston.

    Also make the ingots be 35-50 on EE.
    People will want to make more than 1 weapon in their lifetime and not everyone runs EE. I think they should triple drop rates of everything and balance so you get the right number of all ingredients to make an item at about the same # of runs.
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  15. #15
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Is this supposed to be only 1 even on EE? I thought EE had a chance to drop 0-3 Phlogistons (old Dragon souls).
    the focus of this game is not EE, if you want to farm them out you should be running EH or EN. this is the intent of the devs.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    the focus of this game is not EE, if you want to farm them out you should be running EH or EN. this is the intent of the devs.
    Not true. It takes much longer to make your item if you run on EN and EH. You should farm on whatever difficulty you can handle and based on that it may take you longer to complete your items if you run on easier difficulties. That is how EE is rewarded - finishing your item after 30 raids instead of many more.

    You previously stated these new EE raids are too easy. Why do you think you are being encouraged to run a raid on EN/EH if EE is so easy for you.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    the focus of this game is not EE, if you want to farm them out you should be running EH or EN. this is the intent of the devs.
    I never said I want it to be efficient.

    I want it to be both FUN and REWARDING on EE. Don't care if it takes much longer, some of us enjoy a real challenge even if it takes a whole night to get something done.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Grizzt14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I never said I want it to be efficient.

    I want it to be both FUN and REWARDING on EE. Don't care if it takes much longer, some of us enjoy a real challenge even if it takes a whole night to get something done.
    Having done Temple of the Deathwyrm on EE, I agree 100%. If people want to cruise through EN/EH for the ingredients, I have no problem with that, but the significant increase in effort and time required to complete EE should be rewarded in increased drop rates and quantity of the Thunder-forged ingredients and Raid Loot.
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  19. #19
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I never said I want it to be efficient.

    I want it to be both FUN and REWARDING on EE. Don't care if it takes much longer, some of us enjoy a real challenge even if it takes a whole night to get something done.
    well there you go, it's inefficient to run EE. isn't that what it is right now? you get rewards. i don't see where the problem is.

  20. #20
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    well there you go, it's inefficient to run EE. isn't that what it is right now? you get rewards. i don't see where the problem is.
    I'm sorry but it is not too hard to understand.

    EE is much more difficult and much longer so it should have better rewards. A 20% chance for a 2nd Phlogiston and ~10avg more ingots is not even asking for a lot more than EH.

    You are bringing up efficiency. I didn't even mention it.
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