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  1. #61
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    As an officer of aliclan, this is my opinion, it may not agree with your opinion, but we are all nonetheless entitled to our own.

    The one thing that aliclan have always tried to do when competing for a first raid completion on a brand new raid is get as far as we can with absolutely no GM assistance.

    Firstly, taking CitW, this raid was simply not able to complete until after a hotfix several days later, apparently not on EE anyway.

    On the other hand, the new dragon raid was completable from day one on EE.

    To clarify CitW, the raid could only be completed up to the point where Anna ran up to Elminster, when you talked to the NPC’s the raid bugged and you did not get completion and the chests would not open with or without any GM intervention.

    aliclan completed the raid to this point with all of the mandatory requirements ticked whereas the other guilds that were claiming world firsts did not have everything ticked, specifically killing the portal keepers which was completable. The GM in this case ported the other guilds through the barrier while it was still active, thus in their opinions the other guilds deemed this to be a world first but in our opinions it was not, as not all mandatory conditions were ticked and completed.

    In the thread you said that this event with Anna was directly comparable with not being able to kill the Deathwyrm.

    On this point I have to disagree with you and here is why.

    Whereas CitW was totally uncompletable without a hotfix, this new raid is completable without a hotfix which means they are not comparable and you therefore cannot use them as a comparison.

    Not being able to kill the Deathwyrm due to completing two floor puzzles when one floor puzzle was sufficient was quite simply a mistake.

    In life, we all make mistakes; we cannot expect to get a higher power to put things right for us simply because we went wrong somewhere in the process like doing some DIY and drilling through a pipe in the wall and spraying water all over the kitchen.

    Taking analogies from the game itself, most people know that if you mess up the green puzzle side of the pre quest to The Titan, the quest will become uncompletable.

    If you pull too many levers in Genesis, you can make the quest uncompletable.

    On a non gaming front, when Usain Bolt false started in the 2011 World Championship 100 meter final and was disqualified, he didn't go over to the starter and say, "Oh c'mon, give us another chance, you know I'm gonna win anyway, it’s a foregone conclusion". He accepted his mistake knowing that a slower man who was prepared to wait for the gun and run the race more deliberately was going to win.

    I would agree that it is unlikely that in this instance, completing more than one floor puzzle would have had the same effect as the two previous quests mentioned and is most likely not WAI, but apparently it does.

    In my opinion, as far as I am concerned you were first to complete the raid.

    The fact remains that you still made a mistake that without GM help would have meant restarting the raid and potentially losing out to others who possibly took the raid slower and more deliberate, but in the end obtained a clean kill with no mistakes.

    So, I am sure you can see that it is somewhat galling to go to all that effort of trying to make sure we completed the raid cleanly with no mistakes, taking extra time to try to ensure no mistakes were made and then find out that we were beaten by another guild who made a mistake and then were helped out by a GM.

    At the end of the day, we can claim to have made the first clean kill with no mistakes.

    Anyway, congratulations on your world first for Temple of the Deathwyrm and I and the rest of aliclan look forward to competing with you and other guilds for the next one

  2. #62
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    Gratz aLiclan, nice live game first.

  3. #63
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Completing two puzzles was not a MISTAKE. It was a BUG as was clearly stated by Cordovan and which got FIXED in the update.
    In fact on lammania we did several runs were we completed all puzzles, so this bug was not around before.

    Had we known this would happen we would surely have avoided it. You can't expect us to predict that completing a second puzzle, would cause a raid boss to disappear.

    I could also say this about your stuck dragon. Totally avoidable (infact we knew that he could get stuck like that and puposely avoided it). What a mistake.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
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  4. #64
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfspyryt View Post
    As an officer of aliclan, this is my opinion, it may not agree with your opinion, but we are all nonetheless entitled to our own.


    In the thread you said that this event with Anna was directly comparable with not being able to kill the Deathwyrm.

    On this point I have to disagree with you and here is why.

    Whereas CitW was totally uncompletable without a hotfix, this new raid is completable without a hotfix which means they are not comparable and you therefore cannot use them as a comparison.

    Not being able to kill the Deathwyrm due to completing two floor puzzles when one floor puzzle was sufficient was quite simply a mistake.
    I think the fact that this issue was since hotfixed a satisfies my mind sufficiently that this was not a mistake. Nor was it a mistake for you to draw dragon aggro to the NW side and get her stuck.
    Last edited by blackdoguk; 03-15-2014 at 08:56 PM.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Completing two puzzles was not a MISTAKE. It was a BUG as was clearly stated by Cordovan and which got FIXED in the update.
    In fact on lammania we did several runs were we completed all puzzles, so this bug was not around before.

    Had we known this would happen we would surely have avoided it. You can't expect us to predict that completing a second puzzle, would cause a raid boss to disappear.

    I could also say this about your stuck dragon. Totally avoidable (infact we knew that he could get stuck like that and puposely avoided it). What a mistake.
    Thats just life isn't it, you adventure, sometimes you get it right, sometimes you don't. In this case you didn't.

    No one can predict things in a brand new raid, thats part of the risk of playing in the competition, you sometimes have to accept you got the nasty end of the stick, it unfortunately happens to us all in life from time to time.

    Fortunately for us, our stuck dragon which we also knew was an issue became unstuck without any GM intervention, lucky for us eh?

    Anyway, I think we should leave it there because this is now not achieving anything. We have congratulated you on your win and I'm sure that if you were in our position and the boot was on your foot then you would also feel somewhat aggrieved, but thats life and we are moving on, lets see you do the same.

  6. #66
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    Since this topic has turned into a dispute between two guilds that is not going to be resolved any time soon, it is now a forbidden topic. Also, this is why "world first" self-achievements tend to be problematic and unnecessary. We will not go so far as to prohibit all such topics in the future, but folks who feel strongly about such achievements should realize that there's always a grey area. Self-interpret who "wins" however you wish, but don't drag these disputes into the forums.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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