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  1. #41
    Community Member Sonofmoradin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baurr View Post
    Hmmm didnt u guys claim ee Web same way Almost as Omnipresence did this no completion due to tecnical bugs even If u did everything right? I remeber u was claiming that completion was ok as worldwide first now this ain't?
    OK. Lets get some facts straight first. We completed web without any gm. Here is the proof. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...hlight=aliclan

    So your theory is wrong, although a good one, I admit.

    And the screenshot from this thread:
    Last edited by Sonofmoradin; 03-15-2014 at 12:50 AM.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Takllin's Avatar
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    Grats on your completion, I think its silly trying to claim a DDO first, but I don't care to get into that.

    May I ask what your re-entries if any, and death count was? You have snipped it out of all screenshots...

    We posted ours which was tremendous amount, why not post yours? Can't be worse.

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  3. #43
    Community Member Sonofmoradin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takllin View Post
    Grats on your completion, I think its silly trying to claim a DDO first, but I don't care to get into that.

    May I ask what your re-entries if any, and death count was? You have snipped it out of all screenshots...

    We posted ours which was tremendous amount, why not post yours? Can't be worse.
    Sure as soon as possible we could post more screenshots. - You will see that it took us 8 hours to complete, we had to kill the dragon literally 3 times we had 250+ deaths and we used the Thelanis stock on major mnemonic potions. However, when we asked helped from a GM we got no help at all. Luckily we managed to get the dragon unstuck (that was our problem), and while the last of the resources were literally spent, we killed the dragon normally. As for how we did it, you can ask the raid leader, I think she knows alot better than me. As for the reentries, the current screenshots show we had 0 reentries already.

    No it is not silly to claim what is yours, no matter how small or big it is or even in a game. It is even sillier to assume that the other guild did not care as much as we did since they already said that they would have completed in 90(!) minutes. This means they were in a hurry, they were prepared, they had endless training on Lammania, but in the end, the end fight was changed when it went live... I am really sorry for Omnipresence because I know what we went through, and I know what everyone is gonna get through if he tries to do that raid on EE. But that is how things are.
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  4. #44
    Community Member Baurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonofmoradin View Post
    OK. Lets get some facts straight first. We completed web without any gm. Here is the proof. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...hlight=aliclan

    So your theory is wrong, although a good one, I admit.

    And the screenshot from this thread:
    Whats the proof in that screenshot a uncompleted raid? When your players said u sent ticket after ticket in the ee Web and still was waiting on favor and and completion for hour If i remember right u never got it? .. Dont get me wrong its a Achievement both raids and sad that bugs gonna screw em
    Last edited by Baurr; 03-15-2014 at 03:51 AM.
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  5. #45
    Community Member imTonE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baurr View Post
    Hmmm didnt u guys claim ee Web same way Almost as Omnipresence did this no completion due to tecnical bugs even If u did everything right? I remeber u was claiming that completion was ok as worldwide first now this ain't?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonofmoradin View Post
    OK. Lets get some facts straight first. We completed web without any gm. Here is the proof...snip
    The status of the Caught in the Web raid you have referenced is underway, not completed. This can clearly be seen in the XP report of the screenshot you yourself provided. Therefore, by stating that you completed CITW without any GM is a contradiction. To stay with your CITW run as a useful comparison. You guys found yourself, at the end of CITW, in a position where you couldn't possibly do anything more in your power to gain the official XP report status of 'Completed.' You had run the raid as intended and met the raid objectives required to complete the raid. However, due to a very unfair bug you weren't able to complete because Ana wasn't behaving properly. Our Shadow Dragon wasn't behaving properly. We hit it when it was prone, directly on top of the burial mound with the light beams twice and the raid didn't complete. At this point there wasn't anything in our power for us left to do.


    I would've preferred it if you had contacted us privately to try and address this counterclaim issue, instead of dismissing our achievement and trying to smear us because a GM was involved. It doesn't look good for either side when it happens like this.

  6. #46
    Community Member Stinging_Bee's Avatar
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    I think the Main difference between aLiclan Citw and Omnipresence Shadow dragon is that in the first case aLiclan had successfully completed the raid but had to ask the GM help to Loot and to get the favors.
    In the second case Omnipresence didn't really killed the shadowdragon and had to ask a GM to kill it.

    Having seen the video of their (almost) completion I Can See that They had a good positioning of the dragon on top of the mound but the timing of the levers wasnt really perfect.
    They pulled the levers probably just a fraction of a second too late and because of that the dragon resurrected.

    In the first day of training on lammania we saw that in order to kill the freaking dragon you had to Pull the levers at the exact same time you beat the dragon down, otherwise if you wait till the dragon is down
    and then pull the levers like Omnipresence did (video here) chances are very high that the dragon Will resurrect.

    In the first 2 attempts on lammania we had seen the shadowdragon resurrecting like 10 times because it was super hard to get the right timing.
    Eventually we just came up with the idea to stop the dps on the dragon when it is at 4% and do a count down to Pull the levers and kill the dragon at the exact same time. With this strategy we finished the raid 3-4 times already and the dragon never resurrected not Even one time
    Last edited by Stinging_Bee; 03-15-2014 at 04:44 AM.
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  7. #47
    Community Member Stinging_Bee's Avatar
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    I want to make clear no one is trying to diminish Omnipresence attempt.
    Actually I'm pretty sure they would've had the resources to really beat down the dragon another time if they didn't have the vanishing dragon issue that made them waste time and potions.

    But no one should diminish first crystal clear completion, without any GM help of any sort, by aLiclan
    Last edited by Stinging_Bee; 03-15-2014 at 05:22 AM.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Takllin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinging_Bee View Post
    I want to make clear no one is trying to diminish Omnipresence attempt.
    Actually I'm pretty sure they would've had the resources to really beat down the dragon another time if they didn't have the vanishing dragon issue that made them waste time and potions.

    But no one should diminish first crystal clear completion, without any GM help of any sort, by aLiclan
    You do realize that a GM watched them kill the dragon, pull the levers, and when the raid did not complete, confirmed that it was bugged?

    They completed it first, get over yourselves.

    Your also wrong about the timing of the dragon, you have a few seconds to pull the lever, it does not have to be the instant the dragon dies.

    You both prepared for it by training on lama so that you could get the first ever DDO completion too, not sure why your trying to act like you did not.

    Also just ignoring the fact that others have pointed out your CitW was completed by a GM. Nice.

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takllin View Post
    Also just ignoring the fact that others have pointed out your CitW was completed by a GM. Nice.
    Our CitW raid was not completed by a GM.

    What happened was we completed the requirement of killing the portal keepers, then when the barrier opened, Anna went through, removed Lloth's final incarnation and then at that point when she reached Elminster, everything was ready to complete, but when we spoke to the NPC's the raid did not complete and the chests would not open.

    So, we had no GM help whatsoever and effectively completed the raid having all the required mandatory objectives ticked.

  10. #50
    Community Member imTonE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinging_Bee View Post
    I want to make clear no one is trying to diminish Omnipresence attempt.

    But no one should diminish first crystal clear completion, without any GM help of any sort, by aLiclan
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunta-EU View Post
    After watching the video of the Ghallanda complete it is clear that they did not complete as intended. Having a GM finish it for you does not count.
    Saying that ours does not count is not only an attempt to diminish our run but it's also dismissing it. Making your quoted statement utterly contradicting.

    I'm glad you have expanded on the reasoning behind this decision from aLiclan though. As more and more people learn the Shadow Raid they'll see for themselves the kill window allowed, it's absolutely not required to pull the levers at the exact same time the dragon goes prone. If the the dragon is prone, and the light hits the dragon, the raid completes - I'm sure several people can objectively attest to this being the case.

    After we were awarded our completion Cordovan posted this: NEW: Temple of the Deathwyrm can become incompletable if players complete the second of two available first floor interior rooms. Players should only complete one of the two rooms in order to prevent the raid from becoming incompletable.

    Our dragon wasn't killable, this was verified by our GM. We did everything right and provided video proof, with more on its way. The only valid argument you guys have left is claiming that on EE, and only on EE, you have to hit the levers at the exact same time the dragon goes prone. This argument can most probably be rebutted immediately by the chaps on Argonnessen. However, we're running it again on EE over the weekend and we'll be happy to show our video efforts afterwards.

  11. #51
    Community Member Grizzt14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imTonE View Post
    Saying that ours does not count is not only an attempt to diminish our run but it's also dismissing it. Making your quoted statement utterly contradicting.

    I'm glad you have expanded on the reasoning behind this decision from aLiclan though. As more and more people learn the Shadow Raid they'll see for themselves the kill window allowed, it's absolutely not required to pull the levers at the exact same time the dragon goes prone. If the the dragon is prone, and the light hits the dragon, the raid completes - I'm sure several people can objectively attest to this being the case.

    After we were awarded our completion Cordovan posted this: NEW: Temple of the Deathwyrm can become incompletable if players complete the second of two available first floor interior rooms. Players should only complete one of the two rooms in order to prevent the raid from becoming incompletable.

    Our dragon wasn't killable, this was verified by our GM. We did everything right and provided video proof, with more on its way. The only valid argument you guys have left is claiming that on EE, and only on EE, you have to hit the levers at the exact same time the dragon goes prone. This argument can most probably be rebutted immediately by the chaps on Argonnessen. However, we're running it again on EE over the weekend and we'll be happy to show our video efforts afterwards.
    Guy from Argo's server first EE run. The above is correct.

    I've run the raid a number of times since and not once has the dragon needed to be hit with the lights at the exact same second the dragon goes down, this is a false claim by aLiclan and nothing more. I have watched the Omnipresence video and found zero error with their completion compared to our runs.

    Edit: I've also pulled one of the two levers at the end in a number of runs.
    Last edited by Grizzt14; 03-15-2014 at 11:50 AM.
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  12. #52
    Community Member Sonofmoradin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imTonE View Post
    The only valid argument you guys have left is claiming that on EE, and only on EE, you have to hit the levers at the exact same time the dragon goes prone. This argument can most probably be rebutted immediately by the chaps on Argonnessen. However, we're running it again on EE over the weekend and we'll be happy to show our video efforts afterwards.
    Too late now. After the last update they changed the mechanics of the last fight. You now have a 10 second window to kill the dragon, not 1. You can probably claim the after patch completion though. Good luck.
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  13. #53
    Community Member imTonE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfspyryt View Post
    Our CitW raid was not completed by a GM.

    What happened was we completed the requirement of killing the portal keepers, then when the barrier opened, Anna went through, removed Lloth's final incarnation and then at that point when she reached Elminster, everything was ready to complete, but when we spoke to the NPC's the raid did not complete and the chests would not open.

    So, we had no GM help whatsoever and effectively completed the raid having all the required mandatory objectives ticked.

    You could not open the chests and you did not get your favour because at that point, the quest was not complete. When a quest or raid is completed the XP report reads:

    Status: Completed. Bonuses locked in. XP awarded.
    Yours says
    Status: Underway

    This was due to a bugged out Ana. The only way around this was to get a GM involved to officially complete for you. When the Shadow Dragon goes down, she's effectively a non-actionable NPC - talking to Ana and her not responding is an exact and fair comparison with hitting the prone shadow dragon with the light beams and having it not respond.

  14. #54
    Community Member Sonofmoradin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzt14 View Post
    Guy from Argo's server first EE run. The above is correct.

    I've run the raid a number of times since and not once has the dragon needed to be hit with the lights at the exact same second the dragon goes down, this is a false claim by aLiclan and nothing more. I have watched the Omnipresence video and found zero error with their completion compared to our runs.
    Was that before or after patch?
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  15. #55
    Community Member Talonaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imTonE View Post
    Saying that ours does not count is not only an attempt to diminish our run but it's also dismissing it. Making your quoted statement utterly contradicting.

    I'm glad you have expanded on the reasoning behind this decision from aLiclan though. As more and more people learn the Shadow Raid they'll see for themselves the kill window allowed, it's absolutely not required to pull the levers at the exact same time the dragon goes prone. If the the dragon is prone, and the light hits the dragon, the raid completes - I'm sure several people can objectively attest to this being the case.

    After we were awarded our completion Cordovan posted this: NEW: Temple of the Deathwyrm can become incompletable if players complete the second of two available first floor interior rooms. Players should only complete one of the two rooms in order to prevent the raid from becoming incompletable.

    Our dragon wasn't killable, this was verified by our GM. We did everything right and provided video proof, with more on its way. The only valid argument you guys have left is claiming that on EE, and only on EE, you have to hit the levers at the exact same time the dragon goes prone. This argument can most probably be rebutted immediately by the chaps on Argonnessen. However, we're running it again on EE over the weekend and we'll be happy to show our video efforts afterwards.

    Speaking as one of the 2 lever pullers on Argo's EE completion -- yea, it did NOT have to be at the exact same time, in fact, I got hit and had to restart and still got it.

    I am sorry, this is a dumb argument. Everyone here knows they did the quest correctly, they killed the dragon, but the game itself was broken. We knew about the bug when we started, which was why we were very careful to do ONLY one room. Omni did the quest right - they deserve the title of first completion. I am not taking anything away from Aliclan, you got a server first for your server and did a nice run. Congratulations on that. But please do not try to cheapen what Omni did. That is uncool.

    Now that we actually know the raid, we are re-running it this weekend as well to get a nice solid run. It is a fun raid.
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  16. #56
    Community Member Grizzt14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonofmoradin View Post
    Was that before or after patch?
    Before the patch.
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  17. #57
    Community Member Sonofmoradin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imTonE View Post
    You could not open the chests and you did not get your favour because at that point, the quest was not complete. When a quest or raid is completed the XP report reads:

    Status: Completed. Bonuses locked in. XP awarded.
    Yours says
    Status: Underway

    This was due to a bugged out Ana. The only way around this was to get a GM involved to officially complete for you. When the Shadow Dragon goes down, she's effectively a non-actionable NPC - talking to Ana and her not responding is an exact and fair comparison with hitting the prone shadow dragon with the light beams and having it not respond.
    Gm never came, we never looted the chests. The two other groups not only got teleported inside the barrier but also got their chests opened by gms. What is your point exactly? Why use an old raid that has nothing to do with now, only to prove, what? I would never ever claim a raid first no matter the bugs or how much unfair that is if a gm completed for us - it is plainly wrong.

    In our case, when we needed a gm to unstuck the dragon for us we got no help. In your case, he respawned the dragon once and after a while he killed him for you. These are the facts.

    Talking about comparison, a fair one, we should have asked the gm to kill the dragon when he was stuck because the raid was uncompletable. No diference.
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  18. #58
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Overall I'm utterly disappointed by the cheap way aLiclan is trying to claim an achievement they don't hold.

    1. All you provide is a cropped out screenshot which doesn't even show the full report. I wonder why? Because you needed twice as long, with 2 more people, with only 80% of our kills and double our deaths? We on the other hand provided full screenshots and footage of our completion and and were honest about how the raid completed. I could simply say by your logic, your run does not count, because you never provided any proof you did complete without the help of a GM. See how easy that is? But simply put, you don't make the rules, what counts and what doesn't. We completed 3 hours before you. That is a fact.

    2. Your argument about the mechanic is wrong. Our GM tried to kill the dragon the way it's supposed to and wasn't able to do so either! He made a judgement call and gave us the completion. Feel free to argue with that GM about game mechanics. We had 2 perfect lever pulls and even our second lever pull would have counted, if the dragon wasn't bugged.
    Here's a video of all 4 lever pull attempts. As you can see in the first botched attempt, the DM text is DIFFERENT when you are to LATE on the lever pull! All other pulls provided a different DM text.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4CKxZP3P0k
    Last edited by Eth; 03-15-2014 at 12:32 PM.
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  19. #59
    Community Member Talonaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    Overall I'm utterly disappointed by the cheap way aLiclan is trying to claim an achievement they don't hold.

    1. All you provide is a cropped out screenshot which doesn't even show the full report. I wonder why? Because you needed twice as long, with 2 more people, with only 80% of our kills and double our deaths? We on the other hand provided full screenshots and footage of our completion and and were honest about how the raid completed. I could simply say by your logic, your run does not count, because you never provided any proof you did complete without the help of a GM. See how easy that is? But simply put, you don't make the rules, what counts and what doesn't. We completed 3 hours before you. That is a fact.

    2. Your argument about the mechanic is wrong. Our GM tried to kill the dragon the way it's supposed to and wasn't able to do so either! He made a judgement call and gave us the completion. Feel free to argue with that GM about game mechanics. We had 2 perfect lever pulls and even our second lever pull would have counted, if the dragon wasn't bugged.
    Here's a video of all 4 lever pull attempts. As you can see in the first botched attempt, the DM text is DIFFERENT when you are to LATE on the lever pull! All other pulls provided a different DM text.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4CKxZP3P0k


    Thanks for the video - that pretty much finishes this argument. Congratulations Omni.
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  20. #60
    Community Member imTonE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonofmoradin View Post
    Gm never came, we never looted the chests. The two other groups not only got teleported inside the barrier but also got their chests opened by gms. What is your point exactly? Why use an old raid that has nothing to do with now, only to prove, what? I would never ever claim a raid first no matter the bugs or how much unfair that is if a gm completed for us - it is plainly wrong.

    In our case, when we needed a gm to unstuck the dragon for us we got no help. In your case, he respawned the dragon once and after a while he killed him for you. These are the facts.

    Talking about comparison, a fair one, we should have asked the gm to kill the dragon when he was stuck because the raid was uncompletable. No diference.
    It was you who linked your CITW topic and screenshot. We did not bring up this topic initially. However, it now seems to be coming apparent that your CITW instance was never officially completed, see XP report. So to try and take the honourable ground in saying, "I would never ever claim a raid first no matter the bugs or how much unfair that is if a gm completed for us" is yet another contradiction. You claimed the world first for that run in several places, when in fact, there is no screenshot of you guys sitting in a status completed raid. A number of contradictions have been aimed our way now and you seem to keep moving the goal posts when argued into a place of no validity.

    I would like a unified and solid reason as to why aLiclan is not recognising our run. Instead of several different contradicting statements.

    First, it was because a GM awarded us the completion. Then it was because you thought our take-down method was incorrect. And now, it's just a flat reason that we used in-game support and involved GMs.

    Our first dragon disappeared at 40%, at this point we had only been in the raid for just over 1 hour. The GM spawned a new dragon for us at 100% HP, if this GM intervention didn't happen and we had to scrap that run, we would have been well within our time to reset and go again. GMs did not offer anything to us on a plate, they did not do any of the work inside the raid, on the contrary, by spawning the new dragon in they caused more work for us.

    Frankly, I think you are just jumping on the opportunity to dismiss our completion based on our video, which we didn't have to divulge you with. But we pledged to be forthright with the community in our completion.

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