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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    That would be a choice. If a wizard is taking str instead of int, than its because he is a melee build. EDs were designed also for boosting multi classes, even though there are a lot of enhancement choices that benefit particular classes more. I really don't see the big deal choosing any stat instead of limited to 2 in a destiny. It actually would allow more flexibility. This choice would no more benefit a power gamer than it would any other type of player.
    Limiting to two wouldn't be bad but total free form NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Because an easy change would in increase the fun factor without being overpowered.
    Disagree the more the game changes the less fun it is for me


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  3. #23
    Community Member Tscheuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Because an easy change would in increase the fun factor without being overpowered.
    A change made without good reason is problematic. I still see no reason to make this change, since ED's are amazingly easy to level anyway. XP is cheap, particularly in pursuit of 20th raid completions, saga completions, and comms.
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  4. #24
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    Do we really, truly, want to further encourage them to account for a 9 point stat swing? (6 'levels' +3 twists, reserving one for a 3 dc to tactics or spell.). That's a 30-35% failure rate right there between folks that want to get new goodies, and folks that want to hang on to the ones they've got.
    Last edited by Scraap; 03-09-2014 at 08:01 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Disagree the more the game changes the less fun it is for me
    I'm sorry, but why would it be less fun for you to be able to select other stats in EDs? Are you just arguing against any change for the sake of arguing? If it's resisting the divergence from PnP, that ship sailed long ago. Pittance death penalty, the existance of enhancements, the defensive pass, EDs in the first place (as the completion of EDs were meant to be the completion of the story of your character where he then would no longer take part in mortal events). Such a change would not diverge farther, but as I said, simply take into consideration the off ED play.

    @Tscheuss - I thought I covered the good reasons. Sure, people could fully TR and grind an extra 4 million XP to play as classes they don't want to play as to make those EDs more 'harmonious'... but just because that is an option, it should not mean that making playing as the class you actually want to play as but having off EDs as more relevant should be a non-option.

  6. #26
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Limiting to two wouldn't be bad but total free form NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    still dont see the problem with it. if people are twisting for more stat points than they aren't twisting anything else instead that would benefit their build. they are going to use up all their twists or even their tier 1 and 2 twists for a couple more points to increase a stat instead of something actually useful that can boost their spells or another source of self sufficiency or boost their damage output? the bigger benefit would go to DC casters i think, but they still would be sacrificing at least 2 tier twists and, imo, they aint cheap to spend. i see this more beneficial for people who are off destiny grinding than anything else really.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    Allow people to select any stat from the ED Enhancement selector. Now every class would be able to bump up DCs, DPS, or survivability when they're stuck in a tree that is completely unrelated to their class.
    Make +3 damage be equal to +3 spell DC first, and we discuss.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SardaofChaos View Post
    Well, here's one. I'm having a lot of fun wandering through the various destinies on my monk. I haven't gone into the arcane sphere at all yet, but that's more arbitrary "which destiny should i explore next" rather than actually not wanting too.
    Your exactly the kind of player that frightens me when I put up an EE lfm. One who thinks being in magistar is fun when your a barb and pikes the quest while everybody else does the heavy lifting. Not cool.

    Secondly if you couldn't afford the 95 tp;s for a shear your doing something wrong in life. Doesn't turbine have to make money to stay afloat.

  9. #29
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Strange, the pain of having to grind ed's is what kept me from playing more then 2 toons at ''end game'' .
    Meaning I have less toons likely to spend points on these days.
    As for the stats in of destinies: the day that stats are better twists then actual abilleties is the day you should reroll that toon.

  10. #30
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    No that makes zero sense someone else had a better idea about removing the stats from ED's altogether and that's not bad but allowing any stat is just more power escalation

    The OP's idea actually makes a great deal of sense and would be very popular with players.

  11. #31
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    probably isn't overpowered really but it doesn't make sense for a wizard ed to grant str rather than int for example it just doesn't fit in my mind for every ed to be able to grant whatever stat the powergamers want.
    I think fun should always trump verisimiltude, magic doesn't make sense, we still have wizards because that's fun.

    Basic fact is, a small change that makes ED's suck less and would be trivial to implement is probably something they should do. ED's were supposed to be far more class agnostic than they turned out, some of them are not just class specific but specific build specific (angel).

    Short of coming up with a better way to do ED's they should strive to take some of the suck out of them. Making them less class specific VIA multiselectors would be an improvement. Albeit a small one.

    Now if they want to fix the system they could start by making fate points work off karma instead of ed XP, and then putting all karma in a pool, instead of filling up each ED sphere when you're in a specific ed. This way you could earn karma while in your main ED, earn fate points, and only need to level off ED's to unlock the twists you like. This also helps the off ED karma grind, when you need a sphere that has nothing to offer your build, except a useful epic past life.

    An elegant solution if I do say so myself.

  12. #32
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    Strange, the pain of having to grind ed's is what kept me from playing more then 2 toons at ''end game'' .
    Meaning I have less toons likely to spend points on these days.
    As for the stats in of destinies: the day that stats are better twists then actual abilleties is the day you should reroll that toon.
    Agreed though honestly I'm not a fan of TR'ing the only toons I've bothered with were for casting DC's. The current system puts such an emphasis on chores that I have necessarily paired my 16 alts down to 7 that I was willing to play. Then I eliminated two of those, because they are Tanky type builds that need massive ETR's for hp/ac/prr that I'm simply not going to ever have the time for. I just eliminated #5 because Bards are looking to get another melee enhancement tree, Swashbuckler instead of a casting tree (I wanted Stormsinger badly) and there's no point in starting to TR for DC's on that toon with junk trees, much less ETR. So I'm down to 4, 3 casters and a melee and seriously thinking of abandoning the melee and one caster in favor of my two casters that already have multiple lives. I strongly suspect I'll have to choose between them by the time I get one to its 4th twist I suspect I won't be even slightly in the mood to do that again.

    Oh and BTW its pretty trivial to have 6 INT from ED's and twist in 2 more already... not Sure why twisting stats are being brought into this, you can already do that if you're willing to Gimp your twists for one more DC.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    No that makes zero sense someone else had a better idea about removing the stats from ED's altogether and that's not bad but allowing any stat is just more power escalation
    I am sorry but sephiroth1084 idea would lead to far far more power escalation than this idea would.

    If you take stats points for any kind of DC you do that in your main destiny not an off one. For example if your in magister and want +6 int for the +3 dc it gives you welp you already have access to this right. You wouldn't care as a wizzy to take str for example would you, there's just so much more in the tree you could use better as a caster.

    On the other hand if your a barb off farming you might want to take + 6 str and that wouldn't be OP at all. Alternately if your a wiz off farming in fury being able to take +6 int wouldn't be OP either.

    Having all your cake as wiz in magister plus being able to use all the point you didn't use for +6 int and use them to get other abilities while still having the same DC power would be IMO.
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 03-10-2014 at 02:14 AM.
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    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    As most of us can agree, the most painful part of ETR grinding is off destinies. My Barbarian could care less about Int/Cha/Caster DCs. My Caster could care less about doing 400% more melee damage (though at least choosing CON is somewhat useful). While I made suggestions on how to allow people to not touch the worst of the EDs in spheres, I have thought of a quick and simple way that would add use to every ED for every class: Allow people to select any stat from the ED Enhancement selector. Now every class would be able to bump up DCs, DPS, or survivability when they're stuck in a tree that is completely unrelated to their class.
    I like that. Lots of Destinies have a bunch of dead space in them for individual characters. Allowing any stat would at least give us something halfway useful to spend our dead destiny AP on.

    I like this suggestion.
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  15. #35
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    Do we really, truly, want to further encourage them to account for a 9 point stat swing? (6 'levels' +3 twists, reserving one for a 3 dc to tactics or spell.). That's a 30-35% failure rate right there between folks that want to get new goodies, and folks that want to hang on to the ones they've got.
    If you're in an off-destiny, then power creep is not a problem. You're already missing out on the power that comes from a useful destiny - this just makes the off-destiny less lame compared to the useful ones.
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  16. #36
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I think fun should always trump verisimiltude, magic doesn't make sense, we still have wizards because that's fun.

    Basic fact is, a small change that makes ED's suck less and would be trivial to implement is probably something they should do. ED's were supposed to be far more class agnostic than they turned out, some of them are not just class specific but specific build specific (angel).

    Short of coming up with a better way to do ED's they should strive to take some of the suck out of them. Making them less class specific VIA multiselectors would be an improvement. Albeit a small one.

    Now if they want to fix the system they could start by making fate points work off karma instead of ed XP, and then putting all karma in a pool, instead of filling up each ED sphere when you're in a specific ed. This way you could earn karma while in your main ED, earn fate points, and only need to level off ED's to unlock the twists you like. This also helps the off ED karma grind, when you need a sphere that has nothing to offer your build, except a useful epic past life.

    An elegant solution if I do say so myself.
    It's probably the first time i agree with one of your posts, but your last suggestion is so full of win

    Playing in off-destinies is boring, anything that let us stay in our chosen destiny would be good.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Disagree the more the game changes the less fun it is for me
    So if the game continues to change, will you vacate? Or will you just stay and hammer out the same thoughts over and over without thought or punctuation?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I think fun should always trump verisimiltude, magic doesn't make sense, we still have wizards because that's fun.

    Basic fact is, a small change that makes ED's suck less and would be trivial to implement is probably something they should do. ED's were supposed to be far more class agnostic than they turned out, some of them are not just class specific but specific build specific (angel).

    Short of coming up with a better way to do ED's they should strive to take some of the suck out of them. Making them less class specific VIA multiselectors would be an improvement. Albeit a small one.

    Now if they want to fix the system they could start by making fate points work off karma instead of ed XP, and then putting all karma in a pool, instead of filling up each ED sphere when you're in a specific ed. This way you could earn karma while in your main ED, earn fate points, and only need to level off ED's to unlock the twists you like. This also helps the off ED karma grind, when you need a sphere that has nothing to offer your build, except a useful epic past life.

    An elegant solution if I do say so myself.
    Well said!

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Now if they want to fix the system they could start by making fate points work off karma instead of ed XP, and then putting all karma in a pool, instead of filling up each ED sphere when you're in a specific ed. This way you could earn karma while in your main ED, earn fate points, and only need to level off ED's to unlock the twists you like. This also helps the off ED karma grind, when you need a sphere that has nothing to offer your build, except a useful epic past life.

    An elegant solution if I do say so myself.
    While that would indeed completely negate most of the need to touch off EDs, I don't see how it could even be remotely easy to implement. What happens when you spend Karma to ETR? Do you lose the fate points you gained, or do you infinitely gain fate points as you repeatedly build up karma? How would people that have already gained and spent karma a dozen times with their karma pools mostly drained have fate points retroactively applied since they have no total XP gained history in their system? How would ETR feat selections work - you just gain access to everything automatically? At that point it's no longer a sphere's past life, but rather just a list of feats given to you no matter what you do every time you hit 28.

    I *do* think some off EDing should be required, if not necessarily for fate point earning, definitely for ED Past Life earning. While I had many other suggestions to be able to fill up EDs without touching them (such as being able to spend sphere Karma to level EDs), nothing is a 'quick fix'. Instead of tackling a complete system change to fix it, looking at how to make the off ED grind more enjoyable is likely the most reachable option we can try to get to the Dev's attention - and a simple change like opening up the stat selection would be a step in that direction.

  20. #40

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    Actually the OP and Uska both offer wise solutions. Either pick any stat or eliminate them altogether from ED are two very good ideas. If you eliminate the ED stats bumps, then it would align a bit close the power creep up a bit. Certainly wouldnt eliminate it, but it would help. You'd also have to adjust the DCs down. This fits in with the stacking nerfs to the game as long as monster DCs are rebalanced as well. If not... it may come of as an attempt to boost sales of healing supplies in the store.

    The OPs opinion is the easier to code and understand for the playerbase, and would be a nice counter to the recent nerfs to stat stacking and certain items. It would also make switching to different EDs less painful. However Uska's on task, the higher and higher the stats go, the more and more the game walks away from the 3.5e ruleset Turbine was so proud of trying to emulate (at least stay somewhat close to) for so long.

    Either way... works for me. And either way is better than the way Turbine has it now imho.


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