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  1. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldyGopher View Post
    You need to spend 5 points to open up each tier, okay. lets look at our choices:
    Doubtful. Destinies have always been 4 AP to unlock each tier. I'm highly skeptical they changed this.

  2. #242
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Just tested Exalted Angel on a light nuker build I have on Lama. Added a Lama thread. Think I'll continue forward with plans to ETR divine destiny in Exalted using Divine Wrath, Light SLA's, DP, Energy Burst. Not sure about the Boulder Toss change. Seems weaker than before for a nuker. Guess that was the intended change.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...93#post5288993
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  3. #243
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    I was taking a closer look, but I think Lamannia just crashed...anyway, what little I saw before I was booted:

    The Soundburst SLA, it shows 3 tiers in the tree, but only let me buy one. Display bug? 12 SP, 15 s cool-down. Accepts Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Enlarge, and Heighten. DC was listed oddly: 10 + character level + ability bonus (higher of Wis or Cha). Does it benefit from Evoc bonuses (gear, feats, etc.)? What, exactly, does Heighten do for it, since "spell level" is not in the DC equation? With the long-ish cool-down it's not spammable, but it looks like it will at least reach a usable DC, so this seems like a good choice to fill in spend some points lower in the tree.

    Shadows Upon You. Only had 1 tier shown in tree, though description seemed to imply three. 20 sp, 20 s cool-down. Enervation is slightly more, 25 SP, but has _4_ second cool-down. Single-target, not especially strong de-buff, with a long cool-down...why would I take this ever? Like I said up-thread, it either needs to be passive/automatic, or if actively cast, at least be AoE. Otherwise it's worthless.

    Will take a further look at other changes in the morning, if Lama is back up.

  4. #244
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I was taking a closer look, but I think Lamannia just crashed...anyway, what little I saw before I was booted:

    The Soundburst SLA, it shows 3 tiers in the tree, but only let me buy one. Display bug? 12 SP, 15 s cool-down. Accepts Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Enlarge, and Heighten. DC was listed oddly: 10 + character level + ability bonus (higher of Wis or Cha). Does it benefit from Evoc bonuses (gear, feats, etc.)? What, exactly, does Heighten do for it, since "spell level" is not in the DC equation? With the long-ish cool-down it's not spammable, but it looks like it will at least reach a usable DC, so this seems like a good choice to fill in spend some points lower in the tree.
    I was just checking it Soundburst out online before it was taken down and had the exact same questions. Also, the energy resistance ability wasn't able to go past tier 1. I suspect that this could have been part of the reason Lamannia was taken offline.

    Side note - I think it would make sense to make all abilities in the tree charisma or wisdom for the DCs rather than half of them either char or wis and the other half only wis based. Perhaps they already use either stat and it's just a typo in the description. I didn't get a chance to test it.

  5. #245
    The Top Side GoldyGopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Doubtful. Destinies have always been 4 AP to unlock each tier. I'm highly skeptical they changed this.
    looks around sheepishily

    Not sure where my brain was,

    Anyways the ED are bugged, at least I could not take anymore than a single point (take once) in any of the US or DC options. So you could only take Divine Energy Resistance once instead of three times... So part of my was trying to figure out where to spend points.

    That being said the problem still exists as you are going to end up throwing away points in both trees if you are not a Shield Toting Armor Plated Warrior (US) or a something in Divine Crusader.

    The Twilight Avengers are always recruiting - http://twilightavengersofeberron.yuku.com/topic/655

  6. #246
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    Cool news. Soundsburst and swapping Leap of Faith to not be a core ability are very good changes - and making Quicken work on DW was long awaited.

    Whats the cost and cooldown on MCLW SLA though? If its cheap and quick I consider the loss of Renewal in EA acceptable but if it costs much more than the 5sp Renewal used to cost its a noticeable loss that I cannot condone.

  7. #247
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    Has anyone tested divine crusader yet?


    I would strongly suggest to lower celestial bombardment to tier 4 in that tree.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldyGopher View Post
    Wow am I unimpressed with what's on Lamannia, its um total Garbage. (Harsh words I know, but bear with me.)

    You need to spend 4 points to open up each tier, okay. lets look at our choices:

    Unyielding Sentinel
    Tier 1 -
    Divine Energy Resistance (0/3) - pointless at this stage of the game. Characters need to wear +45 Item(s) in EE. Not going to use 225 SP for that.
    Commanding Presence - (0/3) - Only used by Tanks who need Agro improvement.
    Brace for Impact (0/2 - 2 Pts each) - again with so many fortification items available now-a-days this is less important (but Id spend 4 points there)
    Shield Prowess (0/3) - Um don't use a shield on most of my characters.
    Con/Chr (2 pts) - Ummm

    So how do non shield wearing / solo builds use this? There are so few points (24 available) I need to use everyone wisely now I have to waste at least 1 pt and as many as (3 pts overall on my build and while I have 1 point left over its because I have less useful choices.

    Now move on to Tier 1 of Divine Crusader..
    Bane of Undeath - Not sure what stance I am supposed to be in as the tool tip still says Vigor of Battle
    Endless Turning - what for? I can't turn anything anyways on these builds
    Interrogation - Spell Casting on an offensive melee, please
    Purge the Wicked. Cool I can spend a point
    Stat - No Dex, No Con, I suppose a Str Build can spend 2 pts.

    So I am wasting 3 points on the first tier, THREE POINTS.
    While I can't say I have tested any of this extensively, no offense, but this seems extremely shortsighted and entirely missing the purpose divine EDs. Aside from the fact that the judgments are being made here entirely based upon the first tier of these abilities, lets move into the specifics.

    1) Unyielding Sentinel

    The purpose of this ED is tanking and healing. This is critical in that, well, there are no other EDs that focus on this at all. Pure melees have lots of options and shouldn't be worried about this destiny unless they want to use it occasionally to tank raids. This is the only tanking/healing destiny, and with this update, this destiny has now improved massively for both these categories, making me wonder as to why anyone would complain. Since the update, this destiny has gained renewal and sp, which actually allows fighter tanks a chance without hordes of sf pots and cocoon twist (making my stalwart d not feel like a second class citizen), and healers have gained the ability to gain even moar cheap healing via renewal without feeling squishy (something a healer should never be). The healing capabilities have been vastly improved, the previously useless epic moment made somewhat useful, and defenses in various areas made stronger than before. As to complaining about the first tier only having shield buffs (all non-monk tanks and prob most raid healers should have a shield anyway), fortification (which can free us gear slots), and other defensive things, well, if you don't need this stuff on this build, than pick a different destiny. My cleric plans to run in this on a semi-permanent basis, and he is generally valued as a raid healer precisely because he has strong healing and doesn't easily die, which this destiny only improves on.

    2) Divine Crusade

    The purpose of this destiny is to give a place for hybrid warrior casters a place to live. Yes, believe it or not, clerics and favored souls can indeed have meaningful melee even while staying close to pure and not being useless for healing, and we don't want our spells to go to waste even while we hack away with weapons. The existing melee destinies thus far only give us the choice of blitzing, raging, doing monk stuff, assassinating, or fighting in animal form, which fit most other melees well but don't give clerics, fav souls, or paladins much. This allows my pure favored soul to get 40 to 50% crit with her scimitar (love that crit range boost) while being able to constantly debuff and nuke everything around her. As I look at the tree as a whole (not just the first tier), it looks like a lot of these abilities will be quite powerful, and many of them are passive procs that don't require lots of clicky use. I plan to also run it on my pally/monk, as I think it will be the destiny option which best builds on her strengths as well. And yes, I will like having a few nukage AoE options on her despite her being an offensive melee (though I concede these abilities will be far more effective for my cleric and fvs). As to turn undead, that powers divine might which most pallys use, so more of that isn't bad, and it also powers confront any foe and numerous other pally abilities, so don't know why that wouldn't be good to anyone who would be interested in this destiny.

    In short, prior to this update the Divine Sphere was not well thought-through and tried to force too much into two destinies. With this update existing destinies are hugely improved and we have a great new option. None of these destinies of course will be for everyone (and they shouldn't be), but these destinies strengthen divine classes who have the least options now, so I say well done.
    Main- Carrianne Taliesin Elven Fighter 12/Ranger 6/Rogue 2 Tempest AA, Orien

  9. #249
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Some issues we do already know about and have addressed:

    Unyielding Sentinel: Strength of Vitality can only be taken up to rank 1
    Unyielding Sentinel: Commanding Presence can only be taken up to rank 1
    Unyielding Sentinel: Divine Energy Resist SLA can only be taken up to rank 1
    ... there's a couple other examples of this have have also been internally fixed.
    Divine Crusader: Zeal of the Righteous refers to itself as Wrath
    Divine Crusader: Extraordinary Virtue states that it gives Healing Spell Power
    Divine Crusader: Purification cannot reduce damage to 0
    Divine Crusader: Bane of Undeath relies on an Unyielding Sentinel autogrant
    ... This should, I believe, already be working on Lamannia properly (it's just a text issue).
    Exalted Angel: first auto grant needs a proper name.
    Divine Crusader: Purge the Wicked prints that it helps enemies with purification in the combat log
    Divine Crusader: Endless Turning description is confusing
    Divine Crusader: Zeal of the Righteous doesn't count down correctly

    The movement of the normal innate bonuses in Divine Crusader (HP/SP) are text bugs. They are all intended to be in the innate abilities (and not elsewhere).

  10. #250
    Community Member bennyson's Avatar
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    Default Turbine, Too much Sacred!

    Okay, so...why SACRED?!

    Intolerant Blows:
    Active Ability: (Cooldown 20 seconds) Expend one Smile Evil: For 60 seconds you gain +200% Sacred bonus to threat generation and deal +1[W] damage

    Why is the 200% threat generation considered a Sacred bonus? This does not stack with Divine Righteousness, a Sacred Defender core ability.

    Divine Righteousness:
    Channel Divinity: You gain temporary hit points equal your Charisma score and a 100% Sacred bonus to threat generation for 60 seconds.

    Also, Intolerant Blows and Divine Righteousness does not stack with Inciting Defense, an upgrade to the Sacred Defense stance.

    Inciting Defense:
    When in Sacred Defense, you gain 25%/50%/75% Sacred bonus to melee threat generation.

    All of this Sacred typed bonuses do NOT stack with each other...or do they if their at different values? I don't know, I haven't been able to test this yet, but honestly, WHY is a Fighter better at threat generation than a Paladin?

    All the Stalwart threat enhancements appears to stack with each other, so now ALL Paladin Sacred Defenders threat generation is inferior to Fighter Stalwart threat generation...great, another beat down towards pallies...

  11. #251
    Community Member meckmaster's Avatar
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    i was pleased to read that the useless spell command was replaced with sound burst, and when i logged on and found mass cure light was replaced with mass cure mod having a 15 sp cost and 6 sec cd. i am dissapointed to see that sun bolt which is a lvl 3 spell is still in a tier 6 slot

  12. #252
    Community Member Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meckmaster View Post
    i was pleased to read that the useless spell command was replaced with sound burst, and when i logged on and found mass cure light was replaced with mass cure mod having a 15 sp cost and 6 sec cd. i am dissapointed to see that sun bolt which is a lvl 3 spell is still in a tier 6 slot
    Because SLA's are very powerful.

  13. #253
    Community Member Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    Okay, so...why SACRED?!

    Intolerant Blows:
    Active Ability: (Cooldown 20 seconds) Expend one Smile Evil: For 60 seconds you gain +200% Sacred bonus to threat generation and deal +1[W] damage

    Why is the 200% threat generation considered a Sacred bonus? This does not stack with Divine Righteousness, a Sacred Defender core ability.

    Divine Righteousness:
    Channel Divinity: You gain temporary hit points equal your Charisma score and a 100% Sacred bonus to threat generation for 60 seconds.

    Also, Intolerant Blows and Divine Righteousness does not stack with Inciting Defense, an upgrade to the Sacred Defense stance.

    Inciting Defense:
    When in Sacred Defense, you gain 25%/50%/75% Sacred bonus to melee threat generation.

    All of this Sacred typed bonuses do NOT stack with each other...or do they if their at different values? I don't know, I haven't been able to test this yet, but honestly, WHY is a Fighter better at threat generation than a Paladin?

    All the Stalwart threat enhancements appears to stack with each other, so now ALL Paladin Sacred Defenders threat generation is inferior to Fighter Stalwart threat generation...great, another beat down towards pallies...
    Bolded the important part.

    Go do some runs with it to validate. Get a fighter with you.

  14. #254
    Community Member Infiltraitor's Avatar
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    Just tested Celestial Champion. Stacks and is doubled by Improved Critical. 17-20/x2 becomes 15-20/x2.

    Celestial Champion does not work at all for handwraps nor natural fighting. 19-20/x2 remains unaffected.

    Sacred Ground is not functioning.

    EDIT: Zeal of the Righteous, 50 stacks of +1 doublestrike bonus was a brilliant idea and is more useful to the two handed weapon fighter than the two weapon fighter. Good call on that one.
    Last edited by Infiltraitor; 03-21-2014 at 12:02 PM.

    Reignbeau, running the Steel Shrine Build
    Still the weakest member and dumbest of Omnipresence.

  15. #255
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    More details, comments, and issues with EA changes:

    First core: still mentions allowing Renewal to target self, but twisting Renewal did not let it function on self.

    4th core: +3 DCs, nice! Watch out PMs, I'm almost catching up!

    More about Shadows Upon You: it's only 1 tier, and only does a -2 debuff...for 20 SP and with a 20 second cool-down. For single-target. That you have to explicitly cast. Enervation, with almost the same cost, does a much bigger debuff (2-8, average -5), with only a 4 second cool-down. Or Energy Drain, with 5 times the debuff (4-16, average -10) and STILL much faster at only 6 seconds. And those 2 spells both take off massive amounts of HP, too. And can even be scrolled. Shadows Upon You is a total fail in it's current state.

    The Mass Cure costs 15 SP, with a 6 s cool-down. Is it Light or Moderate? Both are mentioned in the description, but the numbers look like Light in the description. When I cast it, the Combat Log showed Moderate.

    Spell Penetration: could only buy 1 tier. Bug?

    Leap at Tier 5. Only costs 1 point, which is nice. I may actually take it.

    Now, the Tier 6s:

    Sunbolt. 12 sp, 12 s cool-down. But...damage is capped at caster level 15? Average damage of 90, before spell power applied.

    Divine Wrath: 40 sp, 20 s cool-down. Average damage of 196, before spell power, assuming level 28 character.

    Now, let us compare those two. Both are multi-target, sometimes the line might be more effective, sometimes the circular area.

    First, in equal time, say 60 seconds, that's 3 Divine Wrath or 5 Sun Bolt, we have Divine Wrath doing total of 588, and Sun Bolt doing 450. So Wrath does damage slightly faster.

    Now, using equal SP, say, 120. That's 3 Wrath, or 10 Bolt. So Wrath total of 588, Bolt total of 900. So Bolt does damage much more efficiently.

    But what if you want to heal, too? 2 Sun Bolt + 1 Mass Cure SLA = 39 SP, about the same as a Divine Wrath's 40 SP. Now, damage is closer to the same (196 versus 180), and both combos include a mass curing effect.

    I think Sunbolt needs it's caster level uncapped (or at least raised to 25). And then I think Divine Wrath will need to be improved (perhaps back to it's original cost & cool-down) to remain competitive.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Sunbolt. 12 sp, 12 s cool-down. But...damage is capped at caster level 15? Average damage of 90, before spell power applied.

    Divine Wrath: 40 sp, 20 s cool-down. Average damage of 196, before spell power, assuming level 28 character.
    Game balance wise... this is why you have casters taking the former-SLA from the non-caster destinies.

  17. #257
    Community Member meckmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    Because SLA's are very powerful.
    the Primal avatar t3 Tsunami Active (50SP to activate) (7 sec cooldown) (SR: no) (Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Heighten, Enlarge) Sends forth a wave of water, knocking enemies down and dealing 30 cold damage plus 1d10 per character level and 30 bludgeoning damage plus 1d10 per character level. The cold damage and knockdown are negated on a successful Fortitude save vs. 10 + Wisdom modifier + Character level.
    i know this has a higher sp cost but quicker cooldown than sunbolt which i believe both numbers were 12. If this can be tier 3 soundburst tier 2 ( sorry can't remember the sp/cd) and avenging light tier 1 (sp3/cd3) why does sunbolt have to be higher than say tier 4?

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I don't understand why the spell pen doesn't stack. For a very long time now we've had:

    +3 magister (tier 3)
    +3 draconic (tier 3)
    +2 fatesinger (tier 2)

    All of which stack with each other. Why does exalted need to be different? Surely it's not a power creep thing since nobody twists in any spell pen once done with the low level epics. (BoB, VON3 & MotU)

    EDIT: If anything, it would make more logical sense to have only the divine spell pen stack with the arcane, and change the arcane spell pen to not stack with each other.
    Agree with not understanding the reasoning.

    Unless they are going to put Spell Pen in Crusader as well, and make it stack with Angel but not Draconic, and Spell Pen in Sentinel that stacks with the others but not with Fatesinger.

    (Actually my real theory is: copy-and-paste ability directly from Magister without any change; making it stack would take more work.)

    Also, slight nit-pick, Echoes in Fatesinger is also Tier 3, not Tier 2.

  19. #259
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post
    Just tested Celestial Champion. Stacks and is doubled by Improved Critical. 17-20/x2 becomes 15-20/x2.
    How about Kensei/Pulverizer/Crit rage stacking ?

    Celestias still messed up by Wapriest etc ?
    Ghallanda

  20. #260
    DDO Trivia Champion alancarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldyGopher View Post
    That being said the problem still exists as you are going to end up throwing away points in both trees ...
    I'm gonna piggy-back onto this line in an out-of-context manner for the purpose of shamelessly promoting an idea.

    What if... we could earn more Epic Destiny points?

    Ways this could be done:
    1. Take a new Epic feat (available around lvl 24/26/28) to select 2 more points. ...or...
    2. Auto-grant one additional destiny point per past Epic Life, stackable up to 4 times.

    Also: add one Epic Fate point per past epic life to support unlocking higher-tiered twists.

    (sorry for the interruption - please resume commentary on the changes)

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