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  1. #1
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    Default Revisiting my paladin, help wanted

    I have just recently returned to DDO after leaving briefly after MOTU was released and I am looking to update my characters to better perform in the game as it is today. Unfortunately, I've never been the most serious of players; I have reached level 20 before and even True Reincarnated twice, but my characters are typically poorly geared and I still have a lot to learn. With this in mind, the first character that I wanted to have a go at updating is one of my two True Reincarnated characters, my currently level 15 Half-Elf Paladin/Monk, with a +0 Lesser Heart of Wood and I hope that the helpful members of the forum can assist me with this.

    The original goal was to ease my way into the world of playing a melee character by choosing a class combination which, although severely lacking in damage output compared to its competitors, could survive just about anything. I decided to create an 18 Paladin/2 Monk which dual-wielded scimitars to this end, reasoning that the high saves and self-healing ability combined with additional feats and evasion made it the perfect choice for what I was going for. My thinking behind making the character a Half-Elf was more of a personal choice. Although I had considered a lot of different Paladin options, I had always liked the idea of playing a melee character that dual-wields, and I have also always preferred the scimitar to every other one-handed weapon. I was willing to sacrifice the extra feat and superior healing amplification from being a Human for this flavor.

    I have never been a fan of multiclassing despite the many significant advantages it provides when done properly. I am, and most likely always will be, most comfortable playing pure characters; in fact, simply adding the two levels of Monk to this build made me very uncomfortable, and this is the only multiclassed character I have ever kept. I understand completely that there are more effective level distributions out there than what I will be asking for, but I ask that you please respect that I would like something less viable than you might like. By all means, list the other suggestions too, but hopefully you can help me address specifically what I'm looking for.

    I'm very sorry to go into all of this depth over a simple Lesser Reincarnation, but I wanted to explain to everyone where I'm coming from so you can get a good idea what I'm looking for. Additionally, this new enhancement system is still very new to me, so I don't want to take any chances.

    Goals of this Lesser Reincarnation:

    I want to keep the idea of dual-wielding scimitars, as opposed to simply using a two-handed weapon, if at all possible. At the same time, I do not want to make huge sacrifices for damage at the cost of survivability, which as I previously mentioned is the main purpose of this build. I also do not want anything heavily gear-dependent, as I am absolutely awful at procuring gear most of the time. If at all possible, a high healing amplification would be fantastic, but I do not know if that's still an important factor in the game as it is today. This character would almost definitely be limited to Epic Hard since I'm going to be getting reused to the game for a while.

    What we have to work with:

    I am looking to end this life with 18 Paladin/2 Monk, and as such I would appreciate it if most suggestions are geared towards this. However, I am also contemplating a 16 Paladin/2 Monk/2 Fighter, but for all I know the Fighter levels would come too late to be of much use and I would only want to do this if an 18/2 split would not work out well. It will have to remain a Half-Elf, and is a 34 point build with a +2 tome having been used in every stat.

    What I need the most help with:

    Wow. A lot of things, basically. This new enhancement system presents so many different options, I'm not sure what to concentrate on. I also have a feeling that my idea of staple feats and stat distribution is completely outdated as well, so any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated.

    I'm sorry to throw all of this information at you over a simple Lesser Reincarnation, but I am in the dangerous situation of having a vision for what I want my character to do and no idea whatsoever how to accomplish it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  2. #2
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Hey there and welcome back! With the new enhancement system there are a lot of benefits to multiclassing and taking 15 Paladin levels will get you most of the benefits of being primarily a Paladin. Unfortunately the capstone is not anywhere nearly as good as picking up some other classes. As you want to play a DPS focused scimitar wielding TWF Paladin, I would highly recommend a 3 monk / 2 fighter splash. The 3rd monk level is for faster movement (as level 16 of Paladin doesn't get you much). The two fighter levels will get you 2 more feats and access to fighter haste boost and some other goodies in the Fighter Kensai tree. Also, IMHO, stunning blow is a huge boon / asset to a Paladin if you work in increasing your tactics DC. Please see my stunning blow thread in the Paladin section for more details and easy to farm items you can work on, plus just use a stunning item in your off-hand.

    So below are my recommendations for you. For the enhancements, I totalled up to 79 points but feel free to mess around with where you spend your points.

    Class Split
    Paladin 15 / Monk 3 / Fighter 2

    Stats - Assuming +2 tomes in all stats & 34 pt build
    Str: 16 (10 points) - all level ups to strength
    Dex: 15 (8 points)
    Con: 14 (6 points)
    Int: 12 (4 points)
    Wis: 8
    Char: 14 (6 points)

    Heroic Feats = 7 + 2 monk + 2 fighter
    1/2 Elf Dil Feat: Fighter
    TWF x3
    IC-Slash
    Power Attack
    Cleave
    Great Cleave
    Stunning Blow
    Improved Sunder
    Dodge
    Mobility

    Epic Feats
    Overwhelming Crit - lvl 21
    Choice- lvl 24
    Blinding speed - lvl 27

    Epic Destiny Feats
    Tactician or Perfect Two Weapon Fighting - lvl 26
    Elusive Target - lvl 28

    Skills
    Heal (which now adds to your positive spell power), Concentration, UMD
    Some points to balance, jump and tumble

    Knight of the Chalice Enhancements: 35 points
    Core 1-4
    Tier 1: Extra turn x2, Extra Smite x2
    Tier 2: Divine Might x3, Extra Smite x2
    Tier 3: Exhalted Smite x3, Vigor of Life, Div Sac x1, Strength
    Tier 4: Vigor of Life, Strength
    Tier 5: Vigor of Life, Sealed Life

    Sacred Defender Enhancements: 7 points
    Core 1
    Tier 1: LoH x3, Sacred Armor Master x3

    Kensai Enhancements: 24 points
    Core 1
    Tier 1: Haste boost x3, Extra Action Boost x3, Weapon Group Spec
    Tier 2: Tactics x3, Weapon Group Spec, Improved Dodge x3

    Shintao Enhancements: 1 point
    Core 1

    Half-Elf Enhancements: 12 points
    Core 1
    Core 2: Strength
    Core 3: Damage Boost
    Tier 1: Imp Dil
    Tier 2: Imp Dil, Imp Recovery
    Tier 3: Strength

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by Ralmeth; 02-23-2014 at 01:24 PM.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin
    Grolyn Stoutheart, Divine Disciple Cleric
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler

  3. #3
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    Thank you very much for your reply, it was very informative and has given me a lot to think over. My only issue with what you said was describing what I was attempting to create as a "DPS focused scimitar wielding TWF Paladin"; to clarify, my main objective is survivability, not DPS.

    I see your reasoning behind suggesting a 15/3/2 split, but I must confess that I am still very much attached to the idea of an 18/2 split and am curious to know how viable this would be. However, if I do end up incorporating fighter levels into the mix, I will be going with a 16/2/2 split since for some reason I'm uncomfortable with having an odd number of levels in any class. It's bizarre, I know, but for some odd reason I feel strongly about it.

    I have some questions as well, some more generic than others. I notice that in your suggested stat distribution, charisma is far lower than I was used to seeing in a paladin. I know that in the past a substantial charisma was required for Divine Might IV and am wondering if something changed regarding that, allowing charisma to be made lower, or if there is something else that I'm missing. What was your reasoning behind selecting Fighter as the Half-Elf Dilettante feat? I went with Favored Soul initially, for scroll healing, but welcome new ideas in this area. Finally, is the cleave line now a staple even in two-weapon fighting builds?

    There is also one feat that seems attractive to me for this build in particular and I would appreciate your thoughts on it. Magical training would seemingly allow me to use my abilities more often and always have enough for an emergency heal. However, I may just be underestimating how draining my abilities and spells will be on my spell point pool.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  4. #4
    Community Member DrNuegebauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    Thank you very much for your reply, it was very informative and has given me a lot to think over. My only issue with what you said was describing what I was attempting to create as a "DPS focused scimitar wielding TWF Paladin"; to clarify, my main objective is survivability, not DPS.

    I see your reasoning behind suggesting a 15/3/2 split, but I must confess that I am still very much attached to the idea of an 18/2 split and am curious to know how viable this would be. However, if I do end up incorporating fighter levels into the mix, I will be going with a 16/2/2 split since for some reason I'm uncomfortable with having an odd number of levels in any class. It's bizarre, I know, but for some odd reason I feel strongly about it.

    I have some questions as well, some more generic than others. I notice that in your suggested stat distribution, charisma is far lower than I was used to seeing in a paladin. I know that in the past a substantial charisma was required for Divine Might IV and am wondering if something changed regarding that, allowing charisma to be made lower, or if there is something else that I'm missing. What was your reasoning behind selecting Fighter as the Half-Elf Dilettante feat? I went with Favored Soul initially, for scroll healing, but welcome new ideas in this area. Finally, is the cleave line now a staple even in two-weapon fighting builds?

    There is also one feat that seems attractive to me for this build in particular and I would appreciate your thoughts on it. Magical training would seemingly allow me to use my abilities more often and always have enough for an emergency heal. However, I may just be underestimating how draining my abilities and spells will be on my spell point pool.
    Lots has changed.

    Re: survivability - you want more DPS to be 'survivable' rather than less! The DPS side of things is essential to playing the game, mobs have large buckets of HP, and you need to be able to get rid of those HPs!

    The cleave line is absolutely essential. You need Cleave/ G Cleave/ IC/ P Attack in order to qualify for overwhelming critical (epic feat at 21). This will increase your crit multiplier by 1, why is a very nice synergy with your smites anyway. You also need 23 base str (starting, level ups, tomes) in order to qualify - so a str based toon is also your bread and butter.

    Magical training is worthless to you.

    Divine Might is in the enhancement line, and adds your charisma bonus to your strength score (so STR based is the go).

    Re: 3 monk levels for run speed - I believe this only works if you are centered, so don't bother.


    I would recommend no more than 2-6 levels of Paladin, but obviously you're stuck with more, so take as few levels of paladin as you have to, and flesh out the rest with fighter (14 pally, 4fighter, 2 monk)

    If you have the ability to stop at 12 pally, take 6 ranger instead of 4 fighter, it will give you the coveted and massively useful manyshot ability for your toon.
    The last thing I'd recommend is dropping the scimitar idea and being centered - but that looks like it's outside your wish-list, so nevermind.

  5. #5
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    Thank you very much for your reply, it was very informative and has given me a lot to think over. My only issue with what you said was describing what I was attempting to create as a "DPS focused scimitar wielding TWF Paladin"; to clarify, my main objective is survivability, not DPS.
    If you want survivability, then you should be going S&B not TWF, but you said you wanted TWF in your OP, which implies DPS. Please note that I added in as much dodge as I could, which is great way to increase survivability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    I see your reasoning behind suggesting a 15/3/2 split, but I must confess that I am still very much attached to the idea of an 18/2 split and am curious to know how viable this would be. However, if I do end up incorporating fighter levels into the mix, I will be going with a 16/2/2 split since for some reason I'm uncomfortable with having an odd number of levels in any class. It's bizarre, I know, but for some odd reason I feel strongly about it.
    Losing out on the fighter levels is huge IMHO. Haste boost is just amazingly good against boss mobs (i.e. 20% increase to DPS), plus it gives you extra feats. You can go with just a 2 monk splash, but levels 17-18 of Paladin really don't get you nearly as much as 2 Fighter levels do, but this is a game so feel free to take more Paladin. IMHO, if you only want to splash 2 levels of a class then I would go with a S&B build with a 2 fighter splash, but that's a completely different build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    I have some questions as well, some more generic than others. I notice that in your suggested stat distribution, charisma is far lower than I was used to seeing in a paladin. I know that in the past a substantial charisma was required for Divine Might IV and am wondering if something changed regarding that, allowing charisma to be made lower, or if there is something else that I'm missing. What was your reasoning behind selecting Fighter as the Half-Elf Dilettante feat? I went with Favored Soul initially, for scroll healing, but welcome new ideas in this area. Finally, is the cleave line now a staple even in two-weapon fighting builds?
    Divine might doesn't have a high base charisma requirement any longer so you can get away with starting charisma lower. Divine Might now grants a bonus to strength equal to your charisma modified, so you do want charisma as high as you can get, but as you want TWF, this means you need stat points for dex. If you go S&B you could drop dex down and put charisma up higher. As for the dilettante feat, FVS is an option but as a Paladin you can already use cure wands, up to cure serious, plus neutralize poison, remove curse, etc. If you work on UMD you should be able to use raise dead scrolls too, so I'm not really seeing FVS giving you that much, so might as well get more DPS from Fighter. Lastly, the cleave, great cleave and overwhelming crit line are pretty much staples on any melee build. They are that good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    There is also one feat that seems attractive to me for this build in particular and I would appreciate your thoughts on it. Magical training would seemingly allow me to use my abilities more often and always have enough for an emergency heal. However, I may just be underestimating how draining my abilities and spells will be on my spell point pool.
    Eww...That's a pretty good waste of a feat. Just use cure wands for healing if your SP are running low.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin
    Grolyn Stoutheart, Divine Disciple Cleric
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler

  6. #6
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    Thanks again for the replies, that cleared up a lot. I have decided to deal with my reservations regarding multiclassing for the time being and go with a 16/2/2 split.

    I'm glad to know that the forums are still a great place to go to for help and advice, even if what you're attempting to do isn't optimal. Since this most likely won't be the only thread I make in the foreseeable future trying to salvage a character, that makes me feel pretty optimistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

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