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  1. #1
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Default New Rogue capstones look nice!


    • Rogue Mechanic
      • NEW: Hip Flask has gained the following passive benefits:
        • +2 Dexterity and Intelligence
        • +1 to hit with all crossbows
        • +1 damage with all repeating crossbows, +2 damage with non-repeating crossbows
        • +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks

    • Rogue Thief-Acrobat
      • NEW: Staff Lunge and Vault no longer share a cooldown
      • NEW: Followthrough has gained the following passive benefits:
        • +2 Strength and Dexterity
        • +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves
        • +5% attack speed with quarterstaves
        • +2 critical hit damage with all weapons
        • +2 Balance, Jump, and Tumble
        • +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks

    Now those are capstones!

    Could we get all of the capstones changed in a similar fashion? Have them all grant +2 to two ability scores that are core to the tree (casters could probably do without the second +2), and tack on some additional in-theme abilities?
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  2. #2
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Now those are capstones!

    Could we get all of the capstones changed in a similar fashion? Have them all grant +2 to two ability scores that are core to the tree (casters could probably do without the second +2), and tack on some additional in-theme abilities?
    Some capstones definitely need an upgrade. Warchanter, Frenzied Berserker, Ravager, Nature's Warrior, Angel of Vengeance and Knight of the Chalice all need some kind of upgrade.

    The Divine Disciple tree, and the rogue capstones that the OP posted are good capstones. They are all strong incentives to go pure.

    One of the few things the developers did wrong (in my opinion) in the enhancement overhaul was not make the capstones useful incentives for going single-class. The devs did great things for multiclassing, that's obvious, but single-classing for a lot of classes, mostly melee classes, kind of fell out of favor in part because the capstones weren't very powerful.

  3. #3
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    I think the mechanic should be a little bit better. Maybe add another d6 so it is 3d6 or the like.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Have them all grant +2 to two ability scores that are core to the tree (casters could probably do without the second +2), and tack on some additional in-theme abilities?
    I would give casters a +2 to their primary DC stat and +2 to Constitution (maybe Favored Soul get +2 to DC and +2 to SP stats). Otherwise I completely agree - these are how capstones should appear. Anything to make going pure actually worth considering.
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  5. #5
    Hatchery Founder Ganak's Avatar
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    Most excellent update for TA.
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  6. #6
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    A step in the right direction. They are making it harder to decide between single and multi classing. I suppose updates to other capstones will soon follow.

    At first I thought they had doubled the Followthrough duration (attack two enemies at once after tumbling) and was really excited, but these changes are almost as good.

  7. #7
    Founder Alavatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    [/LIST][/LIST][/LIST]
    Now those are capstones!
    Hmmm...

    I dunno. Splashing 2 or 6 Monk gives 2 or 3 feats, Monk Stances (Earth Stance specifically for PRR and Crit improvement), slightly faster movement, access to more Staff Damage enhancements, and access to Shadow Veil for 25% incorporeal. I would still personally want to take the Monk levels over going for one of these Capstones.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    Nice

    Improvement to all capstones are needed.

    Capstones should make people think more about staying pure or multiclassing.

    I think on my Mech rogue I would still multiclass, but these changes are making me think about it more. They should make pure mechs and acrobats more viable. Not better or worse then multiclassing, just different options.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Kalevor's Avatar
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    Rogue Mechanic
    NEW: Hip Flask has gained the following passive benefits:
    +2 Dexterity and Intelligence
    +1 to hit with all crossbows
    +1 damage with all repeating crossbows, +2 damage with non-repeating crossbows
    +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks

    Rogue Thief-Acrobat
    NEW: Staff Lunge and Vault no longer share a cooldown
    NEW: Followthrough has gained the following passive benefits:
    +2 Strength and Dexterity
    +1 to hit and +2 damage with quarterstaves
    +5% attack speed with quarterstaves
    +2 critical hit damage with all weapons
    +2 Balance, Jump, and Tumble
    +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks
    Quote Originally Posted by Alavatar View Post
    Hmmm...

    I dunno. Splashing 2 or 6 Monk gives 2 or 3 feats, Monk Stances (Earth Stance specifically for PRR and Crit improvement), slightly faster movement, access to more Staff Damage enhancements, and access to Shadow Veil for 25% incorporeal. I would still personally want to take the Monk levels over going for one of these Capstones.
    Ok, lets analyse this:

    18 rogue/2 mnk or 2fighter
    -is 2 feats an the access to monk stances, that if you want to go to "master" you have to invest this 2 feats at least.
    - if you only go for a split for the feats its seems a loss IMO. capstone beats
    - in the end you want to exchange 7.5 doublestrike ( and +3DEX and -2CON) or +1 crit multipl on 19-20 (and some PRR, +3 CON -2DEX) for a loss in speed (5%), +2STR/DEX and some nice dmg

    14 rogue/6 mnk
    - is 3 feats, and acces to incorporeal 25%
    -you loose more sneak attack, 2 rogue feats and the capstone ( i don't like the core for lvl18, so i don't consider that a loss)...

    hmmm i really dunno now at first sight which is better, but this is the way to go devs, we need options!
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  10. #10
    Community Member Visty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalevor View Post

    14 rogue/6 mnk
    - is 3 feats, and acces to incorporeal 25%
    -you loose more sneak attack, 2 rogue feats and the capstone ( i don't like the core for lvl18, so i don't consider that a loss)...
    lose 3d6 from rogue levels, gain 4w6 from monk enchantments... a net +1w6
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  11. #11
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    I'd like to thank the OP for pointing these out since I missed them.

    These are a nice start, but I think that multiclassing still has an upperhand. I would have liked to seen more classes get a capstone boost, but at least this shows that the Devs are finally listening to players about the lack of power for pure classes.

    I was hoping that the capstones wouldn't be the only thing getting buffed, because I think that some minor buffs to the level 18 Core Abilities also. For example, would it really hurt anything is the +2 Balance, Jump and Tumble got moved to the level 18 Core Ability instead of the capstone?
    Last edited by oradafu; 02-24-2014 at 05:15 PM. Reason: blah...cross reading...

  12. #12
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    Finally a nice boost for pure Mechs ... though I fear it's just to take some of the sting out of a future Shiradi nerf (the only ED that is actually GOOD for Mechs, even if they can't ttp out of it like casters.)

  13. #13
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visty View Post
    lose 3d6 from rogue levels, gain 4w6 from monk enchantments... a net +1w6
    You can also get that +4d6 from the Assassin tree, that do not requires multiclassing. And if you are primarly an acrobat, you don't have enough AP to invest in Assassin AND Ninja to get much more than 4 extra dice.

    Since you want Staff Specialization, you'll go either TA or Henshin 32 AP. Going for Shadow Fade means at least 11 AP on Ninja spy (which can include +2 sneak attack dice). Since you multiclassed, you might want to invest a bit on Staff Specialization on your other staff tree, so might go another 12 AP for Tier 3.

    Now you have 15 AP to fit everything else. If you invest 12 on Assassin, you get +3 sneak dice, but I think most people would prefer to invest more on their already-invested trees, like going for void strike, haste boost, ninja dodge, and so on.

    While, on the other hand, if you are a pure rogue, you can easily fit 41 AP for TA capstone, then 22 AP on assassin for the 4 sneak dice, and still have 17 for extra stuff on Mechanic (scroll mastery? UMD?) or racial.

    It is a hard choice. And it is good.
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  14. #14
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    I'd like to thank the OP for pointing these out since I missed them.

    These are a nice start, but I think that multiclassing still has an upperhand.
    To me, the solution wasn't necessarily changing and upgrading capstones (which is a nice gesture), But remove the arbitrary only one T5 tree limitation.

    A pure character should be able to buy into as many T5 abilities from their class trees that they can afford to pay for.

    In the previous enhancement system the capstone should have been made better. But with the current, they need to remove that limitation.

  15. #15
    Community Member Indianwiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    To me, the solution wasn't necessarily changing and upgrading capstones (which is a nice gesture), But remove the arbitrary only one T5 tree limitation.

    A pure character should be able to buy into as many T5 abilities from their class trees that they can afford to pay for.
    /signed.

  16. #16

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    Agreed. Allowing 20 class levels in a single class to unlock a second tier 5 tree would be a great change.

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