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Thread: Evocation DC

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    Community Member AylinIsAwesome's Avatar
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    Default Evocation DC

    I haven't played DDO for a few years, and I'm currently trying to get back into it.

    I've seen it mentioned in several threads that you need a DC of 67+ (or 70 depending on who says it) in order to not have mobs save against it in Epic Elites, but I'm not sure how they're getting those numbers. Could someone break it down for me? Thanks!

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    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Post Motu DCs
    69 - 70 evo is most practical.
    And we might get 3 o 4 more in u 21 gear.
    Maybe some changes in destinies in future.
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    Community Member AylinIsAwesome's Avatar
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    Ok, not really feasible to get all of those (actually impossible since getting the 3x Greater WIS prevents you from getting the Epic Spell Focus Feat), and gearing might be problematic.

    WIS:
    18 Base
    7 Levels
    11 Item
    3 Insightful
    1 Exceptional
    1 LotD
    2 Completionist
    5 Tome
    2 Ship
    2 Yugo
    1 Human
    4 AoV/War
    3 Destiny (NOT spending 12 AP on WIS...just no)
    =60 (+25 Mod)


    Evocation DC:
    10 Base
    9 Heighten/Level
    1 Wizard PL Feat
    3 Spell Focus Feats
    3 Sorc PLs
    5 Spell Focus (Nether Orb, doesn't stack with Spell Focus items right?)
    25 WIS Mod
    1 AoV Enhancement
    2 AoV Aura (effective DC, anyway)
    3 Magistar Twist
    2 Draconic Twist
    =64

    Afaik a Spell Focus +2 Item wouldn't stack with Nether Orb or I could get to 66. Third twist would probably be either Cocoon or a DPS SLA.

    Is 64 enough for most things? I'm not even sure how the gear will work (can't use hands or trinket for spellpower; need Devotion, Radiance, and Impulse).

    If it isn't I suppose I could wait for Turbine to lower mob saves/give us better gear or just go in a different direction.


    I've also seen that most FvS builds don't do to 20 anymore, splashing Monk (Evasion/Feats) or Paladin (Heavy Armour/Saves). Are pure FvS builds no longer viable? (My level 9 spells!)

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    2015 DDO Players Council Sebastrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    Are pure FvS builds no longer viable? (My level 9 spells!)
    That depends entirely on what you plan to do with it and how good a player you are.

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    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    2 evo augment from GH or store stacks with +5 evo items.
    I run with 69 evo typically on cleric, it sucks donkey balls in Stormhorns ( aka bring another toon ), works great anywhere else.
    Implo is still buggy as hell though, it would waste " ticks" on friendlies or npcs.
    High hopes for u 21 gear and Soundburst = helpless change.
    Boss single target dps is horrible.
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    Community Member AylinIsAwesome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastrd View Post
    That depends entirely on what you plan to do with it and how good a player you are.
    I want to be able to kill things efficiently, though I also prefer pure to splashing in most cases. For some classes I don't mind MCing much, but I think I would miss the DR, Capstone SLA, and extra spells too much.

    That said, is there a particular focus that works well with pure FvS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    2 evo augment from GH or store stacks with +5 evo items.
    These are the yellow augments? That would get me to 66...

    I run with 69 evo typically on cleric, it sucks donkey balls in Stormhorns ( aka bring another toon ), works great anywhere else.
    Would you mind sharing how you achieved that DC?

    Also, would it be possible to have both high DCs and decent SLAs for damage? I left right after the level cap went to 24 (school), so I'm not really sure what's possible in the higher levels. Divine Crusader looks interesting though... What are your opinions on how it stacks up against Shiradi and Exalted Angel?

    Implo is still buggy as hell though, it would waste " ticks" on friendlies or npcs.
    That's unfortunate.

    High hopes for u 21 gear and Soundburst = helpless change.
    That...would be so cool.

    Boss single target dps is horrible.
    So that's pretty much unchanged. Still, is it enough to beat down orange and red named monsters at level? I'm assuming that involves a lot of SLAs now.



    Final question (for now): Is it possible to get the Sun Bolt SLA as a Purple Dragon Knight (using a LR+1)? I know the Sun Elf can do it, but I think the Human bonuses would be better if I'm going for DC (though the Sunbolt SLA enhancement they have does look enticing too).

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    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    Is 64 enough for most things?
    It will work great on Epic Elite content up to base-level 23 quests. It will work fine in the level 24-26 quests (Gianthold, High Road, Wheloon). It will suck in the level 27 quests (Storm Horns) on EE.

    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    WIS:
    <snip>
    =60 (+25 Mod)
    Can fit in some more Wisdom. 2 more from a single twist (Acute Instincts), 2 more from Epic feats (without giving up Epic Spell Focus), 3 more from your ED, 2 more from an Alchemical weapon, 1 more if you're a Half-elf.

    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    I've also seen that most FvS builds don't do to 20 anymore, splashing Monk (Evasion/Feats) or Paladin (Heavy Armour/Saves). Are pure FvS builds no longer viable? (My level 9 spells!)
    They are still viable. Though splashing only 2 levels does not lose access to level 9 spells.

    Splashing Monk, besides feats/evasion, also lets you edge your Wisdom a touch higher. Though it makes gearing trickier, I feel.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 02-22-2014 at 05:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    It will work great on Epic Elite content up to base-level 23 quests. It will work fine in the level 24-26 quests (Gianthold, High Road, Wheloon). It will suck in the level 27 quests (Storm Horns) on EE.
    Ok, that's good to know.

    Would a FvS focused on DCs be able to switch to another destiny in order to be effective in Storm Horns?

    Can fit in some more Wisdom. 2 more from a single twist (Acute Instincts), 2 more from Epic feats (without giving up Epic Spell Focus), 3 more from your ED, 2 more from an Alchemical weapon, 1 more if you're a Half-elf.
    I can't believe I forgot the Alchemical weapon. >_< Is Flametouched Iron with Mystical Water/Martial Water/Mystical Fire the best option here?

    That, with the +2 Evocation Augment gets me to 67. Is it alright to spend all three twists on DC? I was under the impression that Cocoon was the preferred method of spot healing now. If it's fine then I'm up to 68. I could then spend one feat and 2 more ED APs to get to a 69 DC.

    In the feat department, if I grind out 3x Wizard lives, do I still need to have Spell Penetration feats?

    I'm thinking:

    1: Empower
    3: Arcane Initiate
    6: Completionist
    9: Empower
    12: Spell Focus: Evocation
    15: Quicken
    18: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    21: Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
    24: Great Wisdom
    26: ??? Epic Spell Power Light/Force or Guardian Angel perhaps?
    27: Ruin
    28: Hellball

    They are still viable. Though splashing only 2 levels does not lose access to level 9 spells.
    I know, but iirc it loses 2 level 9s and a level 8. The level 8 I could live with, but I have no idea which level 9s I would drop.

    Splashing Monk, besides feats/evasion, also lets you edge your Wisdom a touch higher. Though it makes gearing trickier, I feel.
    Yeah, having to be centered would pose some problems I think, unless Orbs didn't uncenter Monks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    I can't believe I forgot the Alchemical weapon. >_< Is Flametouched Iron with Mystical Water/Martial Water/Mystical Fire the best option here?

    That, with the +2 Evocation Augment gets me to 67. Is it alright to spend all three twists on DC? I was under the impression that Cocoon was the preferred method of spot healing now. If it's fine then I'm up to 68. I could then spend one feat and 2 more ED APs to get to a 69 DC.

    In the feat department, if I grind out 3x Wizard lives, do I still need to have Spell Penetration feats?

    I'm thinking:

    1: Empower
    3: Arcane Initiate
    6: Completionist
    9: Empower
    12: Spell Focus: Evocation
    15: Quicken
    18: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
    21: Epic Spell Focus: Evocation
    24: Great Wisdom
    26: ??? Epic Spell Power Light/Force or Guardian Angel perhaps?
    27: Ruin
    28: Hellball
    For alchemical kama (pure FvS atm, but in case I splash monk at a later time) I went Crystal, Mystical Fire, Martial Water. Haven't done T3 yet.

    With 3x Wiz PL and 1x FvS PL I have around 40~ Spell Pen so I did without taking any of the feats.

    As far as feats, you have Empower twice (one probably meant to be Maximize?) and you neglected Heighten. With upcoming change to soundburst, I would deffinately take that. My feat list currently is:

    1) Maximize
    3) Completionist
    6) PL: Wizard
    9) Quicken
    12) Heighten
    15) Empower
    18) SF: Evocation
    21) GSF: Evocation
    24) ESF: Evocation
    27) SF: Necromancy

    Just hit 21 last night after wrapping up last of sorc PLs so can't comment on higher level EEs yet. Twists are ever changing.

    Focused Evo Twists)
    Acute Instincts
    Magister Evo +3
    Draconic Evo +2

    Evo/Necro Twists)
    Acute Instincs
    Magister Necro +3
    Draconic Evo +2

    DPS/General use)
    Energy Burst
    Coccon
    Unearthly Reactions/Brace for Impact
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    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    I can't believe I forgot the Alchemical weapon. >_< Is Flametouched Iron with Mystical Water/Martial Water/Mystical Fire the best option here?
    I went with Flame-touched Iron and Tier 2 Martial Water, for sure.

    For Tier 1, it doesn't matter that much. I went Fire, but any are fine. Water & Earth have better guards, but some Combustion spell power might be useful for a FvS.

    For Tier 3, I don't think Mystical Fire is a very good choice for a divine. The Evo DC doesn't stack with anything, and Arcane Augmentation only affects spells on the Wiz/Sorc spell list. So...it's just cheaper Maximize. I suggest going with any Martial Tier 3, just for the Red slot. That translates into another spell power of your choice. Though Mystical Earth gives +3 Spell Pen if you don't have that slotted elsewhere. (There's easy-to-get named bracers that gives +4 Spell Pen. http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sage%27s_Cuffs_(Level_26) )

    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    Is it alright to spend all three twists on DC? I was under the impression that Cocoon was the preferred method of spot healing now.
    If you run in Exalted Angel, Renewal has advantages over Cocoon.

    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    In the feat department, if I grind out 3x Wizard lives, do I still need to have Spell Penetration feats?
    Drow have crazy-high Spell Resistance, but are no longer top-level content. You don't need excessive Spell Pen for most other mobs.

    My own personal plan is to take one Spell Pen earlier on, then swap it out after I'm done with the Drow-heavy quests. Having the basic Spell Penetration feat lets you situationally twist in an extra +6 from Magister & Draconic.

    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    Yeah, having to be centered would pose some problems I think, unless Orbs didn't uncenter Monks.
    Nope, can't be centered with Orbs.

    I'm currently doing a Necro Cleric (see https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...33397-Budstein), myself, but I did spend a good amount of time as an Evo FvS most of last year.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 02-22-2014 at 11:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    For alchemical kama (pure FvS atm, but in case I splash monk at a later time)...
    I went with Short Sword. They are Ki weapons with just 1 AP spent. And they're also Martial weapons, so I can Master's Touch proficiency in the meantime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    For alchemical kama (pure FvS atm, but in case I splash monk at a later time) I went Crystal, Mystical Fire, Martial Water. Haven't done T3 yet.
    Kama sounds good.

    With 3x Wiz PL and 1x FvS PL I have around 40~ Spell Pen so I did without taking any of the feats.
    That's good to know.

    As far as feats, you have Empower twice (one probably meant to be Maximize?) and you neglected Heighten. With upcoming change to soundburst, I would deffinately take that.
    /facepalm

    On of them was supposed to be Maximize, and I can't believe I forgot Heighten. Thank you for pointing that out!

    My feat list currently is:

    1) Maximize
    3) Completionist
    6) PL: Wizard
    9) Quicken
    12) Heighten
    15) Empower
    18) SF: Evocation
    21) GSF: Evocation
    24) ESF: Evocation
    27) SF: Necromancy
    I should probably drop the Great WIS for Heighten then? Well, how useful are Ruin and Hellball? If they're not worth it that would also solve the issue.

    Just hit 21 last night after wrapping up last of sorc PLs so can't comment on higher level EEs yet. Twists are ever changing.
    Ok, that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I went with Flame-touched Iron and Tier 2 Martial Water, for sure.

    For Tier 1, it doesn't matter that much. I went Fire, but any are fine. Water & Earth have better guards, but some Combustion spell power might be useful for a FvS.
    That's a good point. I think was thinking water for the guard, but 90 combustion is hard to pass up...

    For Tier 3, I don't think Mystical Fire is a very good choice for a divine. The Evo DC doesn't stack with anything, and Arcane Augmentation only affects spells on the Wiz/Sorc spell list. So...it's just cheaper Maximize. I suggest going with any Martial Tier 3, just for the Red slot. That translates into another spell power of your choice. Though Mystical Earth gives +3 Spell Pen if you don't have that slotted elsewhere. (There's easy-to-get named bracers that gives +4 Spell Pen. http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sage%27s_Cuffs_(Level_26) )
    I was thinking for the Maximize discount, though I suppose the spell power would work better for gear considerations (since cheaper Maximize is optional).

    Those bracers look like they would be nice for Blade Barrier as well...



    If you run in Exalted Angel, Renewal has advantages over Cocoon.
    Looking at the wiki, I think Divine Crusader might be a better choice, since it has the +1 DC enhancement. The only issue is that it lacks a healing SLA...

    Drow have crazy-high Spell Resistance, but are no longer top-level content. You don't need excessive Spell Pen for most other mobs.
    Awesome!

    My own personal plan is to take one Spell Pen earlier on, then swap it out after I'm done with the Drow-heavy quests. Having the basic Spell Penetration feat lets you situationally twist in an extra +6 from Magister & Draconic.
    That's a lot of spell pen... :O

    Nope, can't be centered with Orbs.
    Curses!

    I'm currently doing a Necro Cleric (see https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...33397-Budstein), myself, but I did spend a good amount of time as an Evo FvS most of last year.[/QUOTE]

    I'll look into your build tomorrow when I have some free time.
    Last edited by AylinIsAwesome; 02-23-2014 at 01:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    Looking at the wiki, I think Divine Crusader might be a better choice, since it has the +1 DC enhancement. The only issue is that it lacks a healing SLA...
    They've pulled Divine Crusader back out of U21. After some community uproar, they've stated they are reworking all the divine destinies first. Crusader will be DPS-focused, Angel casting focused, and Sentinel both tank- and healing-focused. Of course, that will take them some time. So Crusader is not an immediate option, and it might not still have that +DC when it becomes available. But then, they talked about pulling Renewal out of Angel, too, so we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    That's a lot of spell pen... :O
    No-fail Spell Pen on everything except Drow Priestesses is around 55. Even with a feat and both twists, I'll only be at 49. The Drow Priestesses are even higher, I think they have 59 Spell Resistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    I want to be able to kill things efficiently, though I also prefer pure to splashing in most cases. For some classes I don't mind MCing much, but I think I would miss the DR, Capstone SLA, and extra spells too much.

    That said, is there a particular focus that works well with pure FvS?
    I'm running a pure FvS right now, but I didn't bother with Evo DCs too much. I run in Shiradi and rely on SLAs and Shiradi procs. You can check it out here https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...le-Evoker-Soul if you like.

    As you can see in the thread, Hellyzabeth's build is probably superior for running EEs. I only run pure at the moment because I have too much junk in my TR cache to do another heroic TR right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post

    I should probably drop the Great WIS for Heighten then? Well, how useful are Ruin and Hellball? If they're not worth it that would also solve the issue.
    I've yet to play around with Ruin, my Wizzy has Hellball and it's ok. I decided to skip them, but you can always grab them if you want and swap em out later if you find they aren't worth the feat. I also went Sun Elf for the sunbolt sla and racial spell pen, if you were to go human that would give you another feat then I've got on my list and one more point of wis.
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    Good to see others chime in.
    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    Would you mind sharing how you achieved that DC?
    All that's been mentioned already, plus 6 destiny wisdom and Great Wisdom, Guardian Angel and Forced Escape as epic feats, your saves suck.
    And ditching aura for more evo, I feel like it's not very useful anymore ( doesn't matter in oh **** moment ), and relying on Renewal.
    Also, would it be possible to have both high DCs and decent SLAs for damage? What are your opinions on how it stacks up against Shiradi and Exalted Angel?
    Gotta have light spellpower somewhere, Avenging Light is fine, so is Rebuke + Divine Wrath.
    Either Sage's Helm from Stormhorns reward, or in red slot in Necro Orb or something, there is new pew pew ring coming with u21.
    Shiradi ? If I want to mash 5 buttons, I log my Wizard It's an easier/more effective option.
    That 16/2/2 with high light spell power must be good, if you enjoy it. And it has big advantage - sp efficiency.
    Divine future being some sort of lazor Obi wan Kenobi wannabe must be someone's pet project.

    I also don't see much point getting two schools focuses, 56-57 necro gets Assassins, GH and High road casters and stuff with Energy Drain most the time, losing 2 Evo is non negotiable.
    Maybe if you have epic completionist.

    You should be fine with that DCs, just gotta get minions to beat those 250k hp bosses, single target dps is the biggest disadvantage.
    Anyone saying otherwise hasn't tried monkcher or Cetus or even puny decent Ranger.
    Good thing people heal themselves now, bad thing is Turbine don' t play their own game so " I hjeal you, you tank this,this wizard buff us" ™ ala 2009 thing is still there.
    Last edited by Encair; 02-23-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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    I run with about a 64 earthquake DC on my druid and that's perfectly sufficient for eE storm horns (or anything else).

    64 Wisdom

    18 base
    7 levels
    5 tome
    2 completionist (hee)
    2 druid enhancements
    1 human
    6 destiny
    11 item
    1 exceptional
    3 insightful
    2 monk stance
    2 ship buff
    2 yugo pot (when I bother with it)
    2 action boost

    DC breakdown:

    10 base
    27 wis
    8 levels (I don't bother with heighten)
    3 sorc past lives
    4 DC feats (arcane initiate + SF evocation)
    3 evocation specialist twist
    2 precise evocation twist
    5 sage's locket
    2 evocation augment (the yellow augments stack with other items--a lot of people don't seem to know this)
    1 strength of the solstice (druid enhancement)

    65 DC

    I also can use Mantle of the Icy Soul and throw down an Ice storm, giving all enemies -4 to their fort and reflex saves, putting the DC up to an effective 69. I could get an effective *79* if I wanted to shuffle my twists and throw Evocation Augmentation in there, but that's just greedy. I could also get another +2 wisdom if I wanted to dump my wizard level and get a third level of monk, which would be enough to pick up +1 wisdom from both Ninja Spy and Shintao. I'll have to think about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    I run with about a 64 earthquake DC on my druid and that's perfectly sufficient for eE storm horns (or anything else).
    The difference being that Earthquake is a Reflex save, not a Fortitude save. Mob Reflex and Will saving throws aren't quite as out of whack as their Fortitude.

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    I love this thread! yeah.. Evocation DC based fvs are hard to play now that implosion is bugged and it was best evocation spell in divine list :/ I like Shiradi because you can max out wisdom and also obtain double rainbow for damage... I can't wait for new exalted angel! Because there will be DC boost and new SLAs.. Hopefully max caster level increase

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