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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by moo_cow View Post
    Fair enough. I don't know how many ingredients these items take so I couldn't say. Currently though these ingredients are unbound(the ingots at least) so it might not take so long with a few characters. But in the meantime you could run 2 dc's lower getting your other weapon while still using a decent off hand weapon. In the end though when the cap is going to 30 and the end game expansion starts to come out a little more, people will have the weapons they already need.
    It all depends on how much the higher difficulties actually give. I was able to only run hard once on the shadow raid and it gave the same exact number as normal, wasn't able to get to the end fight of ee as I got stuck with puzzles needing more than 2 people. If the rates aren't anything drastic it will take quite a few runs to complete an item. I did a full ransack and I wasn't even able to get 1/3 of the way to tier 2. Tier 3 is even more. I'm hopeful though that the devs get it right and have good rates for hard and elite.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Bump those DCs by at least 10 on weapon effects.

  3. #23
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Bump those DCs by at least 10 on weapon effects.
    I'll do you one better and suggest they just plain drop the DC on weapon effects completely. Lower the damage, up the proc rate. Play with other variables. Putting effort into forging a weapon that has it's power diminish drastically as you go up in difficulty and level is just silly. Shroud lightning strike, disintegration and level drain didn't have DC's and we survived that. I guess my point is, if the DC is high enough to make the weapon useful in EE, they might as well drop the DC anyway.
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  4. #24
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    1) The two 1-handers look stronger than the QSTAFF build but in the end they are both small upgrades which I kinda like.
    2) There is no Arcane Augmentation.
    3) The two-handers need a lot more works to make them at least appealing.

    Right now, the quartestaff (or any two-hander) is not an option.
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    Reroll.

  5. #25
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    So we all agree when we say, welcome back to the same old, khopesh and falchions will be the most common weapons again.

  6. #26
    Community Member Grizzt14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Baseline Tiers
    Tier 0 (Initial Item): +9, 3.5[W], Metalline Damage Types, Orange Augment Slot, ML22 - Unbound
    Tier 1: +10, 4.0[W], Epic Bane of Dragons (5d6), ML24 - Bound to Character on Acquire
    Tier 2: +11, 4.5[W], Greater Epic Bane of Dragons (upgrade from 5d6 to 8d6), ML26 - Bound to Character on Acquire
    Tier 3: +12, 4.5[W], Colorless Augment Slot, ML28 - Bound to Character on Acquire
    • While we get an extra 1[W] compared to the last preview of this system, this isn't the clear base damage boost players were looking for when they asked for CiTW-like bonuses (Expanded Crit Threat or Crit Multiplier).




    Tier 1 – Ingots Only
    Blinding Fear
    On hit: 10% Chance Blind 3 sec (DC 55 Will Save vs. Fear), 5 sec cool down

    Touch of Shadows
    On Hit 8d6 Negative Energy Damage

    Dwarvencraft Potency
    Universal Spell power +100

    Dwarvencraft Combustion, Nullification, Radiance, Devotion, Glaciation, Resonance, Corrosion, Impulse, Magnetism, Reconstruction
    +150 Spellpower to Fire, Negative, Light, Positive, Cold, Sonic, Acid, Force, Electric, Repair/Rust Spell Power. (For 2-handed weapons: +1 Unique bonus to Spell DCs)

    Touch of Flames
    On Hit: 10d6 Fire Damage

    1st Degree Burns
    5d6 Fire Damage + Stacking 1% Vulnerability 3 sec, max 20 stacks (triggers once/2 seconds) (stacks with other sources of vulnerability)
    • Blinding Fear DC is still too low.
    • 2-handed caster weapons still aren't worth getting compared to 2 1-handers
    • The options for Tier 1 are still just as narrow as they were a month ago



    Tier 2 - Ingots and Scales
    Dragon's Blessing
    On friend-targeted spell cast: 5% chance AOE Healing Effect (~100HP) centered on target (AOE is size of Mass Cure spells)

    2nd Degree Burns
    On Hit: 10% chance to slow 50% (No Save) for 10 sec (non-bosses only)

    Dwarvencraft Focus
    Universal Spell DCs +2 exceptional (Stacks will other sources) (For 2-handed weapons: +1% Unique bonus to Spell Crit)

    Dwarvencraft Spell Penetration
    Spell Penetration +7

    Paralyzing Fear
    On Hit: 10% chance to Paralyze (DC 50 Will Save vs. Fear) for 5 sec

    Wrath of Flames
    On Hit: 5% Chance AOE 10d20+400 fire damage – DC 50 Reflex Save for half

    Wrath of Shadows
    On Hit: 5% chance AOE 8d20+220 negative energy damage – DC 50 Fortitude Save for half

    Dragon's Edge
    Armor-Piercing 35% + On Crit: 8d10+25 Bleeding Damage

    Dwarvencraft Abjuration, Conjuration, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, Transmutation Focus
    +6 Spell DCs in respective Focus area (For 2-handed weapons: +1% Unique bonus to Spell Crit)

    Red Augment Slot

    Purple Augment Slot
    • Paralyzing Fear, Wrath of Flames and Wrath of Shadows DCs are still too low
    • Orange Augment Slot downgraded to Red Augment Slot?
    • 2-handed caster weapons still aren't worth getting compared to 2 1-handers
    • Why is a Purple Slot available in the same tier as a Red Slot? There is zero reason to choose a Red Slot with a Purple available in the same tier.


    Tier 3 - Ingots, Scales, and Phlogiston
    Eternal Scorching Light
    On Light / Fire Spell Damage : +50 temp SP 30 seconds (triggers once/45 seconds)

    Eternal Chilling Darkness
    On Negative / Cold Spell Damage : +50 temp SP 30 seconds (triggers once/45 seconds)

    Crippling Flames
    On Crit: 10d20+125 Fire Damage + On Vorpal: Negative Level (DC 50 Fortitude Save)

    Burning Emptiness
    On Vorpal: 5d12+50 / 2sec Fire Damage for 10 seconds + On Crit: 8d20+100 Negative Energy Damage

    Mortal Fear
    On Hit: 8d8 Force Damage (DC 45 Will negates) + On Vorpal: Phantasmal Killers (DC 45 Will/Fortitude Save vs. Fear)

    Dwarvencraft Fire, Void, Radiance, Healing, Ice, Sonic, Acid, Kinetic, Lightning, Repair Lore
    Spell Crit +22% in the respective Lore (For 2-handed weapons: +2 Weapon Enhancement Bonus)

    Dwarvencraft Lore
    Universal Spell Crit +17%

    Body Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Fortitude Save -5, Sunder Attempt

    Leg Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Reflex Save -5, Trip Attempt

    Mind Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Will Save -5, Hold Monster Attempt

    Draconic Reinvigoration
    On Damage or Spell Damage: 2% Chance regenerate 1 Action Boost, Rallying Cry, Smite Evil, Turn Undead, and Bard Songs (triggers once/100 seconds) + Passive: +1 use/rest to Action Boost, Rallying Cry, Smite Evil, Turn Undead, and Bard Songs

    3rd Degree Burns
    On Vorpal: 10d12+75 / 2sec Fire Damage for 10 seconds + On Hit: 10% Chance Stuns non-bosses 1 sec (DC 45 Fortitude Save)

    Fire Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Fire Breath (3/rest)

    Ice Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Ice Breath (3/rest)

    Acid Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Acid Breath (3/rest)

    Lightning Storm

    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Lightning Breath (3/rest)
    • Crippling Flames, Mortal Fear, 3rd Degree Burns DCs are still too low
    • <Element> Storm -> Still restricted by "Moving will disrupt the action, but the counter will still be used"?
    • 2-handed caster weapons still aren't worth getting compared to 2 1-handers
    • Tactic attempt effects but no DC boosts for Stun/Trip/Sunder?


    Craftable items list:
    Bastard Sword
    Battle Axe
    Dagger
    Dwarven Waraxe
    Morningstar
    Handwrap
    Hand Axe
    Heavy Mace
    Heavy Pick
    Kama
    Khopesh
    Kukri
    Longsword
    Rapier
    Sceptre
    Scimitar
    Shortsword
    Sickle
    Warhammer
    Falchion
    Greataxe
    Greatsword
    Maul
    Quarterstaff
    Great Crossbow
    Repeating Heavy Crossbow
    Longbow
    Orb (it's an implement, not a weapon, but we're putting it here all the same)
    • No Throwing Weapons?
    • No Shields?
    • Why are weapons missing from this list? (Shortbow, Light Repeater, etc)
    • Overall question: Why are weapon damage effects largely restricted to only fire and negative energy but lore can be any element? (Beyond the obvious dragons being only fire and shadow...)


    The system doesn't look finished still and even worse doesn't look like it has much changed besides some names from a month ago...
    Last edited by Grizzt14; 02-15-2014 at 08:41 PM.
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  7. #27
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Seems like good for two weapon fighting which I do not really have a problem with. The 2% recharge of boosts has some real potential for tier 3 especially on two weapon characters. Several abilities that no one will choose the % on the procs like people commented on the blinding effect, but others not so hot. You might want to tweak THF weapons a bit.
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  8. #28
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    Can we get a T1 effect of or similar to:

    4d6 negative energy damage + vampirism

    Or

    Greater vampirism

    Or something along those lines? I personally love a good heal per hit on my weapons.

  9. #29
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Many of you have had a good glimpse at the Thunderholme weapon-smithing system when the forge was made available on the Lamannia server a few weeks back. I'm posting the details of that system here to ask you kind souls for some targeted feedback. What we're looking for, first & foremost, are the small, critical points that would make the difference for you: what's broken, what's missing, what needs a tweak to get over the line. Full disclosure: I can't make promises about what will get into Update 21 - the time to release is growing short - but we will work hard to get this shiny in the end.

    Now, to introduce it properly...
    First, while I'm glad to see that you've taken the overwhelmingly positive feedback regarding greensteel crafting to heart, and have made an attempt at replicating that system, there are a few issues that jump right out at me here:
    1. One problem with greensteel was that it was much too large a jump forward from all other loot available at the time, and overshadowed nearly every weapon released in the game before and after for years.
    2. One of the major drawing points of greensteel crafting was that it wasn't limited to just weapons: characters who already had a preferred weapon didn't find the system unappealing because they had accessories to craft. It also meant that characters weren't done crafting after making 1 or two items, and it also meant that new loot could be better without making the entire system unattractive--many players still make sure that they have at least 1 greensteel accessory worked into their gear somewhere, and many, many players have crafted at least 2 versions of the same item, in different slots at some point. The Thunder-Forged totally forgoes this point.
    3. Greensteel was attractive not just for its DPS benefits (although that was obviously a major factor), but also for its utility. Moving from DPS we had stuff like Mineral II, which was your universal DR breaker for a long time (while also having pretty good DPS), then we had many useful clickies (characters still load up on Displacement and Raise Dead clickies, and at the time, Earth Elemental and Stoneskin clickies were worthwhile. Of course there were also the caster bonus items, although those weren't super-popular (mostly because the same effects were available on random loot and other raid gear in better/easier to acquire combinations), healing amplification (still popular for off-handing on characters that self-heal with scrolls), unique stat and skill bonuses (again, characters still craft themselves exceptional skills items here), unique bonuses to saves, immunity consolidation (fear, poison, disease, and Deathblock all on one slot), unique HP and SP bonuses (still underrepresented across the game's loot), and the other unique stuff (Concordant Opposition, Greater Disruption/Guard, some decent skill bonus consolidation, and uniquely powerful guard effects, like Ash). I see very little of this in the list of available effects, and see more of a variety of DPS options on one side, and caster options on the other.
    4. Another strong point on greensteel was that even if you saw something at a particular tier you wanted, you didn't necessarily have to give up the idea of everything else at that tier--if you wanted to grab a couple immunities at tier 1, you didn't have to entirely give up on, say, Good-aligned damage to bypass DR: you could still pick up Good Burst (not as good as Holy at tier 1, but still worthwhile, and still gets the job done).
    5. Final issue here: greensteel was also popular because it offered multiple effects per tier (for the non-weapon stuff), and special combination bonuses. I would have liked to see some utility effects coupled with the straight DPS stuff.

    I'll make comments for each effect in the quotes in this color.
    Thunder-Forged Weapons
    - Use the Dwarven forge within Thunderholme to craft them
    - A fast travel NPC in the Thunderholme public area will take you to the forge (no Astral Shard usage required.)
    - Forge a "base" weapon then upgrade 3 times
    - There are multiple choices for each tier
    - The first tier and some options in the second tier can be crafted with ingredients found in the adventure area, without needing to run the Raids. The Raids drop ingredients for crafting all tiers.

    Ingredients
    Thunderholme Ingots - Found on the landscape & in large numbers in the raids
    Dragon Scales (Red & Dark) - Found in raids, common
    Phlogiston (Red & Dark) - Found in raids, uncommon

    Drop rates of all these items increase with difficulty level (Normal, Hard, Elite).

    Tiers now come with clearer inherent benefits:

    Baseline Tiers
    Tier 0 (Initial Item): +9, 3.5[W], Metalline Damage Types, Orange Augment Slot, ML22 - Unbound Is that the Metalline property, or indicating that we can craft thee in a variety of metals? Base stats look impressive (a bit too strong for ML 22 in my opinion, especially when comparing this to CitW weaponry), but I also don't see any improvements to crit profile, which may end up holding these back, although the DPS effects are so enormous they may overcome the ESoS anyway.

    I'd probably start these at +6, then increase them by +2 per tier...so +6, +8, +10, +12...same endpoint, but they don't start so high. I'd probably also start it at 1.5[W] and increase by 1 per tier, so 2.5 at tier 1, then 3.5 and finally 4.5.

    Tier 1: +10, 4.0[W], Epic Bane of Dragons (5d6), ML24 - Bound to Character on Acquire I still maintain that I dislike the change to the Bane property. The old version that added +x enhancement and +xd6 were more interesting (they help with to-hit and gain something on crits). Especially when comparing names--the old Epic Bane is +8 enhancement, +6d6 damage I believe, which leaves this in the dust. Mostly psychological here.Also, this being dragon bane kind of limits the utility these have in other places.
    Tier 2: +11, 4.5[W], Greater Epic Bane of Dragons (upgrade from 5d6 to 8d6), ML26 - Bound to Character on Acquire
    Tier 3: +12, 4.5[W], Colorless Augment Slot, ML28 - Bound to Character on Acquire These are weapons...I'd rather see a red slot here, though a colorless isn't useless.

    Tier 1 – Ingots Only
    Blinding Fear
    On hit: 10% Chance Blind 3 sec (DC 55 Will Save vs. Fear), 5 sec cool down Significantly worse than the Radiance property (blind on crit, no save, longer duration). Is there a reason for that? The characters that most want this property (those relying on Sneak Attack damage) would want something more reliable.

    Touch of Shadows
    On Hit 8d6 Negative Energy Damage Kind of a big bonus, but not especially useful otherwise (doesn't help break DR, and very few ways to gain more damage out of negative energy)

    Dwarvencraft Potency
    Universal Spell power +100 Eh. Why no bonus for 2-handed weapons?

    Dwarvencraft Combustion, Nullification, Radiance, Devotion, Glaciation, Resonance, Corrosion, Impulse, Magnetism, Reconstruction
    +150 Spellpower to Fire, Negative, Light, Positive, Cold, Sonic, Acid, Force, Electric, Repair/Rust Spell Power. (For 2-handed weapons: +1 Unique bonus to Spell DCs) The two-handed weapon bonus is excessive. It pretty much forces anyone DC casting to use a staff. I don't know exactly how this system works, but if it uses the barter AI, couldn't 2-handed weapons gain a second +150 spellpower?

    Touch of Flames
    On Hit: 10d6 Fire Damage All the fire damage is underwhelming given that there are a few prominently featured red dragons in this pack. That wouldn't necessarily be a huge deal except that: one of those places is a raid (the reason to build uber weapons), and the weapons are aimed at being used against dragons thanks to the inherent Dragon Bane stuff.

    1st Degree Burns
    5d6 Fire Damage + Stacking 1% Vulnerability 3 sec, max 20 stacks (triggers once/2 seconds) (stacks with other sources of vulnerability) <see above regarding fire> What's the triggering effect? Is it just On Hit? Ensuring a 20 stack after 40 seconds (assuming new stacks refresh the timer)?

    Tier 2 - Ingots and Scales
    Dragon's Blessing
    On friend-targeted spell cast: 5% chance AOE Healing Effect (~100HP) centered on target (AOE is size of Mass Cure spells) This is cool, but I don't know how many characters will take it over the other options offered at this tier. Also, it would be great if there was a version of this for melee characters...like barbarians, who still have no adequate source for self-healing.

    2nd Degree Burns
    On Hit: 10% chance to slow 50% (No Save) for 10 sec (non-bosses only) If this were bundled with something else, it would be pretty nice, but do you really want to slap this on a weapon aimed at being used on dragons, for which this effect will be useless, and in place of all the other options?

    Dwarvencraft Focus
    Universal Spell DCs +2 exceptional (Stacks will other sources) (For 2-handed weapons: +1% Unique bonus to Spell Crit) The 2-handed bonus looks kind of weak here, especially when you consider the next effect...

    Dwarvencraft Spell Penetration
    Spell Penetration +7 ...which really punishes those characters using a staff, because the dual-wielding casters will have both the +2 to DCs and the Spell Pen if they need both, while the staff wielder will have only one of the two.

    Paralyzing Fear
    On Hit: 10% chance to Paralyze (DC 50 Will Save vs. Fear) for 5 sec % chance of trigger should not be combined with a DC: pick one or the other. There is a fair chunk of the game for which a DC 50 is a "fail on 1 only", which means this becomes a 10% chance of a 5% chance of success, or a 0.005% chance of ever seeing anything get paralyzed. Even a regular lootgen paralyzing weapon has a better success rate (100% chance on-hit, DC 14 Will means it works 5% of the time when they roll a 1). That's pitiful. A 10% chance to trigger for 5 sec is reasonable without including the DC. Also, is there a reason to tack on the Fear portion? So, now it only works against creatures that are both not immune to paralysis and not immune to fear? That restricts the list of possibilities unnecessrily.

    Wrath of Flames
    On Hit: 5% Chance AOE 10d20+400 fire damage – DC 50 Reflex Save for half Why not just make this On Vorpal? That's the same thing, but we can track it a little better. Otherwise, looks okay, even if it often will be doing 0 damage against mobs with Evasion (including mobs that have no business with Evasion).

    Wrath of Shadows
    On Hit: 5% chance AOE 8d20+220 negative energy damage – DC 50 Fortitude Save for half Fort saves are the highest saves on average after the very early levels of the game. Evasion doesn't apply, which is good, but it's rarely going to hit for full damage in level 26+ content, even on EH.

    Dragon's Edge
    Armor-Piercing 35% + On Crit: 8d10+25 Bleeding Damage Very nice.

    Dwarvencraft Abjuration, Conjuration, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, Transmutation Focus
    +6 Spell DCs in respective Focus area (For 2-handed weapons: +1% Unique bonus to Spell Crit) Why is this at the same tier as the universal +2 to DCs? It just means that almost no one will ever take the other ability. Again, the 2-hander bonus is underwhelming. Give them a second school with +6 to the DC. After all, someone holding two caster sticks will be able to have either 2 +6 DC bonuses, or a +6 and the universal +2.

    Red Augment Slot

    Purple Augment Slot Are these choices, or do they get added automatically? Would anyone take a red slot here in place of anything on the list (including the better purple slot)?


    Tier 3 - Ingots, Scales, and Phlogiston
    Eternal Scorching Light
    On Light / Fire Spell Damage : +50 temp SP 30 seconds (triggers once/45 seconds) This looks kind of mediocre, but hard to say.

    Eternal Chilling Darkness
    On Negative / Cold Spell Damage : +50 temp SP 30 seconds (triggers once/45 seconds)

    Crippling Flames
    On Crit: 10d20+125 Fire Damage + On Vorpal: Negative Level (DC 50 Fortitude Save) <see earlier comments regarding fire damage> Again, no need to tack a DC onto a 5% ability. Heck, we have a new lootgen effect that triggers negative levels without these kinds of restrictions!

    Burning Emptiness
    On Vorpal: 5d12+50 / 2sec Fire Damage for 10 seconds + On Crit: 8d20+100 Negative Energy Damage

    Mortal Fear
    On Hit: 8d8 Force Damage (DC 45 Will negates) + On Vorpal: Phantasmal Killers (DC 45 Will/Fortitude Save vs. Fear) Never going to see the Force damage, and rarely going to see the PK. People played with the PK weapons because it was on-crit. Then it got nerfed, and people stopped using them.

    Dwarvencraft Fire, Void, Radiance, Healing, Ice, Sonic, Acid, Kinetic, Lightning, Repair Lore
    Spell Crit +22% in the respective Lore (For 2-handed weapons: +2 Weapon Enhancement Bonus) Nice ability, poor bonus for 2-handers.

    Dwarvencraft Lore
    Universal Spell Crit +17%

    Body Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Fortitude Save -5, Sunder Attempt Weakest of the bunch. What's the DCs on these? Probably weaker than other options at this tier (this includes Leg Breaker and Mind Breaker).

    Leg Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Reflex Save -5, Trip Attempt

    Mind Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Will Save -5, Hold Monster Attempt

    Draconic Reinvigoration
    On Damage or Spell Damage: 2% Chance regenerate 1 Action Boost, Rallying Cry, Smite Evil, Turn Undead, and Bard Songs (triggers once/100 seconds) + Passive: +1 use/rest to Action Boost, Rallying Cry, Smite Evil, Turn Undead, and Bard Songs This is cool, but add some more things to this list, like Rage (especially since we have a few effects that are fueled by burning Rage uses). I don't think this needs a limiter on how often it can trigger with a 2% proc rate. If we get 2 in a row, that should be an occasional bonus--it's a far cry from being too strong.

    3rd Degree Burns
    On Vorpal: 10d12+75 / 2sec Fire Damage for 10 seconds + On Hit: 10% Chance Stuns non-bosses 1 sec (DC 45 Fortitude Save) This is better than the earlier Slow effect, because it also comes with something that is useful against bosses (although, again, fire damage).

    Fire Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Fire Breath (3/rest) Do these allow for a save? If not, then they're kind of nice, but damage clickies are rather poor most of the time--even at 700 damage or so on average, these aren't going to kill anything at level 28, which means burning multiple clickies to kill stuff, which means 3 clickies feels like 1 clicky you have to wait a long time for much of the time.

    Ice Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Ice Breath (3/rest)

    Acid Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Acid Breath (3/rest)

    Lightning Storm

    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Lightning Breath (3/rest)



    Craftable items list:
    Bastard Sword
    Battle Axe
    Dagger
    Dwarven Waraxe
    Morningstar
    Handwrap
    Hand Axe
    Heavy Mace
    Heavy Pick
    Kama
    Khopesh
    Kukri
    Longsword
    Rapier
    Sceptre
    Scimitar
    Shortsword
    Sickle
    Warhammer
    Falchion
    Greataxe
    Greatsword
    Maul
    Quarterstaff
    Great Crossbow
    Repeating Heavy Crossbow
    Longbow
    Orb (it's an implement, not a weapon, but we're putting it here all the same)
    Is there any reason to not just include all of the weapons in the game on this list? Does that reason (those reasons) outweigh the downside of annoying people who use something not found here?
    Last edited by sephiroth1084; 02-15-2014 at 07:13 PM.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  10. #30
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portalcat View Post
    While all of this is true, there is a tradeoff in that you have to actually farm out two weapons versus one to do so. I'm guessing that it won't be a trivial number of runs to make a tier 3 weapon.
    That's not much of a balancing factor--the people who really want to be making these things will. This is especially true when we can bank on this making up the bulk of the DDO endgame for half a year or more.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  11. #31
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    Stop creating epic weapon effects that have a DC. They are useless; the development time a real loss.

  12. #32
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Stop creating epic weapon effects that have a DC. They are useless; the development time a real loss.
    I was just going to mention this myself. No weapon effects should have a dc really. Limiting the power of the effect should be handled entirely by the proc rate, possibly in combination with the cooldown effect that limits how often the effect can proc.

    If you add dc's to these effects which already have limited proc rates, you will have a weapon that is overkill in the content it works in, and no kill in the content you would actually want to work this hard to make a weapon for.

  13. #33
    The Hatchery Correlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Stop creating epic weapon effects that have a DC. They are useless; the development time a real loss.
    I agree, if you are gonna put effects with a DC on epic weapons, there really should be a greater chance of the mob not saving. Otherwise the effects are pretty useless beyond epic normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Very soon.............ish.™

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  14. #34
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    Change the colourless slot to a red slot at Tier 3 is the main thing that stands out to me, also you should include new armour somewhere be it in this system or some place else just please add it! By level 28 (and eventually 30) we shouldn't be using level 25 armour.

    Stoner81.

  15. #35
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    Change the colourless slot to a red slot at Tier 3 is the main thing that stands out to me, also you should include new armour somewhere be it in this system or some place else just please add it! By level 28 (and eventually 30) we shouldn't be using level 25 armour.

    Stoner81.
    We have the shadow dragon armor as well, it's craftable in a way similar to this. Originally, it stunk, but DrOcto said today that they are changing it up to where you pick what you want to go on it.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portalcat View Post
    While all of this is true, there is a tradeoff in that you have to actually farm out two weapons versus one to do so. I'm guessing that it won't be a trivial number of runs to make a tier 3 weapon.
    Well there's nothing else to do in the game so i can't really see making two as a tradeoff. Reminds me of the days when everyone acted like TWF wasn't OP because you had to make two GS weapons.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  17. #37
    Community Member Takllin's Avatar
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    These are really lackluster. Not nearly enough weapon effects to allow for much creativity.

    Can we get some thing in Tier 1 that increases the DC of Combat Feats?? The fact that we still have to use DunRobar rings is pathetic...

    Make Blinding Fear into Radiance.

    Take DC's off of item affects, they are too low to begin with, that most things will need to roll a 1 on EE for them to fail the save.

    Also, no shields or throwing weapons? What the hell? This is an endgame crafting system and we should have ALL weapon types.

    Throw out a bunch of different effects and then let us give feedback on what we like/don't like.

    It is depressing to see that over the past month that we have been giving feedback to this system, there has been VERY LITTLE change made.

    You really are not in touch with the current state of DDO. It is very disheartening...this update is making or breaking the game for many people because there just has not been enough content or excitement to keep people here. And you are driving this game into the ground...

    Also, I'd rather see this update delayed to add MORE raid loot, and finish this crafting system. Than to meet your internal schedule and we never see this finished. History tends to repeat itself, far too much in this game.
    Last edited by Takllin; 02-15-2014 at 09:01 PM.

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  18. #38
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    - Why does Tier 2 have 2 choices for Augment slot, and Tier 3 has none? And there is no reason someone would ever want a Red slot instead of a Purple. Move one of those two a to Tier 3 upgrade.

    - Scaling upward ML as you upgrade sucks. Do you want us to upgrade these weapons, or use them? Because we can't do both, apparently. Or are we supposed to grind out 4 sets, for levels 22-23, 24-25, 26-27, and 28+? Just make them ML 25 for all tiers.

    - It makes me sad that these weapons make Wisdom-based casters fall further behind the arcanes in achievable spell DCs.

    - As others have mentioned, though there are some token bonuses to 2-handed versions, a single 2-handed is far, far behind two 1-handers for a caster.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 02-15-2014 at 09:04 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Baseline Tiers
    Tier 0 (Initial Item): +9, 3.5[W], Metalline Damage Types, Orange Augment Slot, ML22 - Unbound
    Tier 1: +10, 4.0[W], Epic Bane of Dragons (5d6), ML24 - Bound to Character on Acquire
    Tier 2: +11, 4.5[W], Greater Epic Bane of Dragons (upgrade from 5d6 to 8d6), ML26 - Bound to Character on Acquire
    Tier 3: +12, 4.5[W], Colorless Augment Slot, ML28 - Bound to Character on Acquire
    I like these breakpoints, except Tier 3 doesn't seem to add a lot, maybe the Tier 3 affects will make it worth while.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Tier 1 – Ingots Only
    Blinding Fear
    On hit: 10% Chance Blind 3 sec (DC 55 Will Save vs. Fear), 5 sec cool down
    It's not bad, the DC will not hold up when the item is upgraded to ml26 though.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Touch of Shadows
    On Hit 8d6 Negative Energy Damage

    Dwarvencraft Potency
    Universal Spell power +100

    Dwarvencraft Combustion, Nullification, Radiance, Devotion, Glaciation, Resonance, Corrosion, Impulse, Magnetism, Reconstruction
    +150 Spellpower to Fire, Negative, Light, Positive, Cold, Sonic, Acid, Force, Electric, Repair/Rust Spell Power. (For 2-handed weapons: +1 Unique bonus to Spell DCs)
    Good range of affects.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Touch of Flames
    On Hit: 10d6 Fire Damage
    Not a fan of fire damage in general, but it may find it's audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    1st Degree Burns
    5d6 Fire Damage + Stacking 1% Vulnerability 3 sec, max 20 stacks (triggers once/2 seconds) (stacks with other sources of vulnerability)
    This is the one that I lean towards (so long as the Vulnerability stacks to targets immune to fire damage as well/isn't dependent on the fire doing damage). Does the fire damage trigger on hit or is it limited to once every 2 seconds as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Tier 2 - Ingots and Scales
    Dragon's Blessing
    On friend-targeted spell cast: 5% chance AOE Healing Effect (~100HP) centered on target (AOE is size of Mass Cure spells)
    I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    2nd Degree Burns
    On Hit: 10% chance to slow 50% (No Save) for 10 sec (non-bosses only)
    DC is too low and has no affect on bosses. I also hate chance for a chance affects.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Dwarvencraft Focus
    Universal Spell DCs +2 exceptional (Stacks will other sources) (For 2-handed weapons: +1% Unique bonus to Spell Crit)

    Dwarvencraft Spell Penetration
    Spell Penetration +7
    I like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Paralyzing Fear
    On Hit: 10% chance to Paralyze (DC 50 Will Save vs. Fear) for 5 sec

    Wrath of Flames
    On Hit: 5% Chance AOE 10d20+400 fire damage – DC 50 Reflex Save for half

    Wrath of Shadows
    On Hit: 5% chance AOE 8d20+220 negative energy damage – DC 50 Fortitude Save for half
    DC's are too low, chance at a chance effects, does evasion allow mobs to evade all damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Dragon's Edge
    Armor-Piercing 35% + On Crit: 8d10+25 Bleeding Damage

    Dwarvencraft Abjuration, Conjuration, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, Transmutation Focus
    +6 Spell DCs in respective Focus area (For 2-handed weapons: +1% Unique bonus to Spell Crit)
    These would be my picks.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Red Augment Slot

    Purple Augment Slot


    Tier 3 - Ingots, Scales, and Phlogiston
    Eternal Scorching Light
    On Light / Fire Spell Damage : +50 temp SP 30 seconds (triggers once/45 seconds)

    Eternal Chilling Darkness
    On Negative / Cold Spell Damage : +50 temp SP 30 seconds (triggers once/45 seconds)
    I like them, maybe a little long on timer/cooldown but a good start.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Crippling Flames
    On Crit: 10d20+125 Fire Damage + On Vorpal: Negative Level (DC 50 Fortitude Save)
    Damage is good, Vorpal effect is chance for a chance, DC is way to low for a ml28 item.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Burning Emptiness
    On Vorpal: 5d12+50 / 2sec Fire Damage for 10 seconds + On Crit: 8d20+100 Negative Energy Damage
    I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Mortal Fear
    On Hit: 8d8 Force Damage (DC 45 Will negates) + On Vorpal: Phantasmal Killers (DC 45 Will/Fortitude Save vs. Fear)
    DC is way too low (anything cr24+ will save almost always if not 95% and it's a ml28 effect), chance for a chance (albeit, this on vorpal affect does deserve a save, just needs a DC of 65 for a ml28).

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Dwarvencraft Fire, Void, Radiance, Healing, Ice, Sonic, Acid, Kinetic, Lightning, Repair Lore
    Spell Crit +22% in the respective Lore (For 2-handed weapons: +2 Weapon Enhancement Bonus)

    Dwarvencraft Lore
    Universal Spell Crit +17%
    I like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Body Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Fortitude Save -5, Sunder Attempt

    Leg Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Reflex Save -5, Trip Attempt

    Mind Breaker
    On Hit: 5% Chance Will Save -5, Hold Monster Attempt
    What's the DC of the attempt? Do both effects proc at the same time (does the -5 apply first or after the attempt?) or two difference effects at 5% chance each? The idea is really interesting, but the DC's need to be decent enough to work against cr30-40+ monsters [and that ignores the cr 70+ that are running around in the highest difficulty levels]. Does the -5 save stack or is it a once off? What's the duration of the debuff, Hold, Sunder?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Draconic Reinvigoration
    On Damage or Spell Damage: 2% Chance regenerate 1 Action Boost, Rallying Cry, Smite Evil, Turn Undead, and Bard Songs (triggers once/100 seconds) + Passive: +1 use/rest to Action Boost, Rallying Cry, Smite Evil, Turn Undead, and Bard Songs
    I like it, 100 seconds might be a little long for Smite Evil though.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    3rd Degree Burns
    On Vorpal: 10d12+75 / 2sec Fire Damage for 10 seconds + On Hit: 10% Chance Stuns non-bosses 1 sec (DC 45 Fortitude Save)
    DC is too low, vorpal affect is a little on the light side (kinda like corrosive salt, it's ok on it's own, but when you can apply more than one quickly it looses it's strength [when compared to something like incinerate]).

    Quote Originally Posted by DrOctothorpe View Post
    Fire Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Fire Breath (3/rest)

    Ice Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Ice Breath (3/rest)

    Acid Storm
    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Acid Breath (3/rest)

    Lightning Storm

    On Clicky: 30d15+450 Lightning Breath (3/rest)
    Do they have reflex saves? Without saves these are really nice effects.

    Overall, I can see myself working to get the Tier 2, but Tier 3 isn't worth the effort/increased min level item. The DC's really need to improve by 5 points each tier to stay relative (45 at ml22, 50 at ml24, 55 at ml26, and 60 at ml28) otherwise just make them a 1-2% chance to proc as the odds of it going off are much better (5% at 5% chance = 0.25% chance of success).

  20. #40
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    This systems problems are multifold

    Khopesh, Falchion and Rapier hello 2009 DDO you're back up, now get out there and make sure no one uses any other weapons.

    Its overly specific and overly flavor restricted just like Calomel crafting... Honestly wish the PC had had a chance to try and help give input on this system. a few tweaks and a couple more choices would do wonders.

    Why do you guys hate throwers so much? I mean seriously why have you ignored repeated requests to put throwers into this system? If you're not going to support flavor and less optimal stuff then just put this system out with only Khopeshes Falchions and Rapiers... that's what it's going to be anyway, because DDO was already like this (perhapos before you worked on DDO I don't know) We've already seen how over emphasis on crit effect that proc more for some weapons than others stratifies the weapon selection massively

    I'm sorry but this system contains:

    Almost no hard choices
    Low variety of choices
    Annoying omissions of weapon types
    No balancing factors what so ever. The low damage weapons have nothing on the high damage ones, and if that's not enough you have on crit effects that clearly favor high crit range weapons over low crit range weapons.

    Easy solution to that one, allow +1 crit multiplier instead of "on crit effect", so a Greataxe or heavy Pick user might choose X4 (or X5) crits on his axe instead of the on crit effect. But a rapier user is probably going to chose the On crit effect .

    Why would anyone carry anything put two Thunder Forged caster sticks after this goes live? Answer: no one will.

    Why would anyone use anything but the highest crit range weapon from this system when it has "Burst effects" that don't scale up with multiplier?
    Last edited by IronClan; 02-15-2014 at 09:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

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