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  1. #1
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    Default Dungeon scaling and Damage Reduction

    Hello everyone,

    Could someone explain me how dungeon scaling mechanics work in relation to player's damage reduction?

    I almost always run dungeons in elite with one or two friends (rogue, cleric, and barbarian), so dungeon scaling is most of the time active, yes? I'm wondering whether having an invulnerability armor is a good thing or if the DR 5/magic will be made useless by the dungeon scaling mechanics (the ddowiki seems to imply this, but I cannot find confirmation of this...).

    Thanks a lot!!

  2. #2
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocolateThunder View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Could someone explain me how dungeon scaling mechanics work in relation to player's damage reduction?

    I almost always run dungeons in elite with one or two friends (rogue, cleric, and barbarian), so dungeon scaling is most of the time active, yes? I'm wondering whether having an invulnerability armor is a good thing or if the DR 5/magic will be made useless by the dungeon scaling mechanics (the ddowiki seems to imply this, but I cannot find confirmation of this...).

    Thanks a lot!!
    If I recall, DR is applied first, then dungeon scaling for damage afterward. In a way this reduces the effectiveness of DR when damage is being scaled down. So that DR 5 might only end up knocking off 2 or 3 damage visually.

    Say there is 50% damage scaling in effect and you have an invulnerability item. If the mob would hit you for 100 damage, it's reduced by 5 to 95 then scaled by 50% down to 47.5 or 48 rounded up. If the DR applied after scaling you would have taken 45 so because of the order it's applied you receive a reduced benefit on difficulties with scaling.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  3. #3
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Wait, SERIOUSLY? How in the heck does that make any sense. I thought damage was scaled UP if you have more people not DOWN if you have FEWER people. Applying your reduction BEFORE the scaling is total whackadoo, if it actually does work like that. Absurd. What's your source for this information, anyway?

    Invulnerability rapidly loses efficacy anyway because the mobs start getting magical weapons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Wait, SERIOUSLY? How in the heck does that make any sense. I thought damage was scaled UP if you have more people not DOWN if you have FEWER people. Applying your reduction BEFORE the scaling is total whackadoo, if it actually does work like that. Absurd. What's your source for this information, anyway?

    Invulnerability rapidly loses efficacy anyway because the mobs start getting magical weapons.

    I believe scaling up has been deactivated. Dungeons now only scale DOWN when you have fewer players.

    On your second point, at what point/level - give or take - does invulnerability lose efficacy due to mobs' magical weaponry?

  5. #5
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    A very large amount of humanoids gain magical weaponry at CR 10. Some named humanoids gain it earlier.
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post4458482

  6. #6
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Wait, SERIOUSLY? How in the heck does that make any sense. I thought damage was scaled UP if you have more people not DOWN if you have FEWER people. Applying your reduction BEFORE the scaling is total whackadoo, if it actually does work like that. Absurd. What's your source for this information, anyway?

    Invulnerability rapidly loses efficacy anyway because the mobs start getting magical weapons.
    Anecdotally, you can see the scaling effect with mobs that just plain hit for small amounts of damage. If you have a Ghost waking cloak with DR 15 on it and test it on mobs that hit for 10 - 15 damage on solo normal and never any higher than 15, you'll notice that some damage still comes through once you put your DR item on. Since the mob never hit for more than 15, you'd think it should reduce to 0, but it doesn't.

    You can look at combat logs during this for more precise results. I did some testing on this a few years back so it's entirely possible something has changed since then, but I doubt it.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    are you sure that scaling affects damage? I read (in wiki) that damage reduction is scaled only on mobs for non elite dificults (i still cannot overcome zombie DR regadless on count of players in the dungeon). Dungeon scaling in elite should only affect count of monsters that spans as you walk through of the quest. So there is difference when you are running solo or with full group. Elite raids shouldnt be scaled anyway.

    I wish to see scaling turned off for every elite quest.

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  8. #8
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    are you sure that scaling affects damage? I read (in wiki) that damage reduction is scaled only on mobs for non elite dificults (i still cannot overcome zombie DR regadless on count of players in the dungeon). Dungeon scaling in elite should only affect count of monsters that spans as you walk through of the quest. So there is difference when you are running solo or with full group. Elite raids shouldnt be scaled anyway.

    I wish to see scaling turned off for every elite quest.
    In any situation where damage scaling is in place, DR scaling is in place as well as a result. Damage scaling shouldn't happen on elite or in raids so there should be no DR scaling if that's the case. In situations like wilderness or challenges, I'm not sure exactly what happens. I may have to go check that out.

    I was referring to player DR. As player damage doesn't scale up or down based on party size or difficulty, you shouldn't see any difference in DR on the zombie. It's hp scale down so you do more damage in a roundabout sort of way, but I don't think it's DR changes at all.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  9. #9
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    are you sure that scaling affects damage?
    Yes.

    Besides the already-mentioned player DR applying before scaling, monster DR also "varies" on normal and hard somewhat.

    On normal, the best monster DR can do is reducing your damage in half. So, let's say the monster have DR 20, and your normal attacks only deal 16 damage. So, the DR will block 8, and you still deal 8 damage per hit.

    On hard, it reduces damage to 1/4. On the same mob/DR, you would deal 4 damge per hit, and DR would only block 12 damage.

    On Elite and all epic dificulties, DR is always fully applied.
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  10. #10
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Wait, SERIOUSLY? How in the heck does that make any sense. I thought damage was scaled UP if you have more people not DOWN if you have FEWER people. Applying your reduction BEFORE the scaling is total whackadoo, if it actually does work like that. Absurd. What's your source for this information, anyway?

    Invulnerability rapidly loses efficacy anyway because the mobs start getting magical weapons.
    Up or down from 4 party members. Verifiable via twisted talisman.

  11. #11
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    God, no wonder barbs are getting reamed (among other reasons) if their DR isn't fully applying. If you have DR 15, anything that hits for less than 15 should do zero damage. Period.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Wait, SERIOUSLY? How in the heck does that make any sense. I thought damage was scaled UP if you have more people not DOWN if you have FEWER people. Applying your reduction BEFORE the scaling is total whackadoo, if it actually does work like that. Absurd. What's your source for this information, anyway?

    Invulnerability rapidly loses efficacy anyway because the mobs start getting magical weapons.
    Scaling was always supposed to scale difficulty down for parties smaller than 4. For a long while it was also scaling up for parties larger than that, but that was not WAI and supposedly fixed or being fixed.

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