Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 108
  1. #1
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    666

    Default Give Us A Reason to Run the New Raids on EE/EH

    Raids have historically been avoided on EE, because for the majority of raids loot has never scaled. Like CITW and FOT, the two new raids are going to be doomed to an EN/EH stomp fest unless you give us a reason, however small (may even be something like the draconic soul gem, except it's something useful) to run EE. As it currently stands EE loot is only trivially better than EN, but by scaling loot turbine can generate lots of interest from the player base to keep coming back to a raid and progressively attempting higher and higher difficulties, all the while purchasing TP for ETR/ITR/TR to improve their toons and other buffs/augments. As it is right now the endgame is simply a cakewalk on EN, with groups formed without regard to ability or strategy. On lamannia the new raids are insanely easy on EN, and this is made even more incredible by the fact that character copy is not working, so these raids are being taken down by gimped toons to begin with. That's all fine and dandy for EN, but for EH and EE please offer some kind of unique challenge coupled with an incentive (unique reward). That incentive doesn't have to be huge, just enough to give us some reason, ANY REASON, to attempt these raids on EH/EE. This small change stands to generate turbine a great amount of revenue from increasing the raid's replay value, and increasing TP purchases for the purpose of improving toons to be able to tackle these harder difficulties, as well as in the form of AS to buy these EE items from each other. The disruption to the casual crowd can be minimized by making the number of EE-unique items small (like only a fraction of the total) and only marginally better than EN (which has always been the case).
    Last edited by ishr; 02-12-2014 at 07:50 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,480

    Default

    You mean drop rates of:

    Normal: 0.1%
    Hard: 0.3%
    Elite: 0.5%

    For the exact same loot isnt enough to have you run on EE?

    How about if they take away the 20th reward list and you can only get the loot in the end chest? That 0.5% is looking mighty nice about now, eh?

  3. #3
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Miasto Stołeczne Warszawa (The Capital City of Warsaw)
    Posts
    7,113

    Default

    /signed


    But with army of causals feeling entitled to best rewards with no effort, its not going to happen :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Random Person #2 View Post
    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  4. #4
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    You mean drop rates of:

    Normal: 0.1%
    Hard: 0.3%
    Elite: 0.5%

    For the exact same loot isnt enough to have you run on EE?
    And unless there's some substantial changes to the loot itself, it's probably not going to be worth running the raids at all, on any difficulty...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  5. #5
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seminole, FL
    Posts
    10,640

    Default

    Raids have been avoided on EE (and at level) simply because people want maximum gain for as little effort as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  6. #6
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    The later version of CiTW had it right with the 2 comms guaranteed to drop each time on EE. We were running EE twice a week for the comms only.

    Of course Turbine decided to fix the SP drain (seriously, whomever came up with this idea should have been fired) and make EH FoT a much easier way to get the comms . . . this pretty much killed EE CiTW.

    Heck . . . now we even got raiders boxes, does anyone even run CiTW?

    But I digress . . . if the raid is actually fun (these ain't looking so . . .) it'll still get run on the hardest difficulty. We ran Elite TOD all the friggin time when the cap was 20 because it was a FUN raid, even though there was zero evidence the drops were actually better.

    Then again . . . there's LOB. I always though it was a pretty terrible raid and with it's out-dated loot it's never run.

    TLR: if the raid is a good raid that in and of itself will be the incentive to run it. If it sucks, it's gotta pay. These raids on lamania look weak, if you want people to run them they need to pay.

  7. #7
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    Adding a unique augment to EE would be a good enough reason to get people running it if it's decent. N/H/E loot probably has a very negative effect on players who can't handle EE or feel excluded due to people running it in guilds and channels. Turbine probably has numbers on this which is why they're changing to a system that is more casual friendly... unfortunately at the expense of players looking for reasons to run EE. At any rate, adding unbound augments to EE from this list could help perhaps?

    Yellow
    Healing Amp 30%, min level 28
    Doublestrike 10%, min level 28

    Blue
    DR 20/-, min level 28
    Superior Fortification (150%), min level 28

    Red
    Your weapon's base critical profile becomes 18-20 x3, min level 28
    Your weapon gains improved vampirism (1d6) and drains one level on a vorpal hit
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  8. #8
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Adding a unique augment to EE would be a good enough reason to get people running it if it's decent. N/H/E loot probably has a very negative effect on players who can't handle EE or feel excluded due to people running it in guilds and channels. Turbine probably has numbers on this which is why they're changing to a system that is more casual friendly... unfortunately at the expense of players looking for reasons to run EE. At any rate, adding unbound augments to EE from this list could help perhaps?

    Yellow
    Healing Amp 30%, min level 28
    Doublestrike 10%, min level 28

    Blue
    DR 20/-, min level 28
    Superior Fortification (150%), min level 28

    Red
    Your weapon's base critical profile becomes 18-20 x3, min level 28
    Your weapon gains improved vampirism (1d6) and drains one level on a vorpal hit
    I like those yellow slot ideas . . .

  9. #9
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Raids have been avoided on EE (and at level) simply because people want maximum gain for as little effort as possible.
    This. See Shroud level 17-28 lfms on hard. For that matter, see any raid.

    Incentive definitely needs to be there to run EE raids. An increased .3% drop rate isn't good enough. People will complain they can't complete EE and get the best loot from the raid and scream its too hard. You just can't please people either way.
    Gary Gygax quotes

    The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience.

    There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you are involved in, whether its a fantasy game, the Wild West, secret agents or whatever else. You get to sort of vicariously experience those things.

    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

    The secret we should never let the game masters know is that they don't need any rules.

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    At Turbine HQ suggesting what to nerf next.
    Posts
    1,485

    Default

    It's kind of hard to say anything about the new raids right now as one of them didn't even have it's raid chest dropping. As far as I know, no one has done epic elite on the new raids. A guildie and I were able to clear to the 2nd set of puzzles but couldn't go any farther as we needed more people. Now, I'm 99.999% sure that these raids don't offer anything different on elite. This includes: no different loot, no extra loot, no increased drop rate on loot, and heck probably the same amount of ingreds as normal/hard. While I do think it is premature to ask for more incentive to run elite, it is not completely out of bounds since we all know there will be nothing special on epic elite.

    TL;DR: Agree with OP, add more chests, more loot, higher drop rates, more ingreds.
    Teth - Revenants

    Babysittin Francine so he dont die 24/7. I used to be good at this game.

  11. #11
    Hall of Famer
    2016 DDO Players Council
    Impaqt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    20,216

    Default

    There is already enough "Incentive" for EE.

    1: Its more challenging. Isnt this whats really wanted? I see people claim this constantly.... But then we see threads like this pop up. So I'm guessing the challenge really is secondary?
    2: Higher XP

    3: Higher Drop Rate of named items.

    4: the everlasting admiration of all the casual gamers that are in awe at your ability to complete quests on EE!
    °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸A R C H A N G E L S °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸
    Thelanis

    Alandael ~ Allendale ~ iForged ~ Roba ~ Sylon ~ Pokah ~ Keyanu ~ Wreckoning
    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    We don't envision starting players with Starter Gear and zero knowledge playing on Hard or Elite.
    Sev~

  12. #12
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    4,476

    Default

    They had it right with FoT and the upgrade system used in there.

    - fully upgraded items on EE, tier 2 on EH, tier 1 EN, but all upgradable to the higher tier versions
    - more comms
    - one powerful augment that only drops on ee (which ironically seemed to be missing from the loot table for several months)

    Hope they stick with something like that. At the very least higher diffs should drop significantly more ingrediences for the forge weapons.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
    Ghallanda - Ethrayne - Ethryne --- Omnipresence
    Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKVn...wLuzB2Q/videos

  13. #13
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    666

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    Raids have been avoided on EE (and at level) simply because people want maximum gain for as little effort as possible.
    Exactly, because the reward risk/reward for EE is way imbalanced, it's way harder with no unique rewards except the draconic soul gem which is inferior to ship buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    You mean drop rates of:

    Normal: 0.1%
    Hard: 0.3%
    Elite: 0.5%

    For the exact same loot isnt enough to have you run on EE?
    No, it's not, that's why nobody runs it. Also where are you getting your numbers from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    if the raid is a good raid that in and of itself will be the incentive to run it.
    Yes a good raid helps, but loot is by FAR the greatest determinant of raid popularity. That's why shroud is still run on the regular after 6 years, because it offers loot with unique stats found almost nowhere else. You don't see people running VoD, HoX, ToD etc that all were in the same general release area as Shroud, because the loot there is outdated and replaced by much better loot elsewhere. How do you explain the huge dropoff in CITW runs after raid boxes came out? One of only two endgame raids is almost NEVER run now, as compared to insanely popular (multiple groups nightly of all difficulties) prior to the launch of FOT. What's the reason? Loot.
    Last edited by ishr; 02-12-2014 at 10:18 AM.

  14. #14
    Founder
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,330

    Default

    I think at least a few EE only either enticing EE versions of items or enticing EE only upgrades will be good for the game. That way people running triple epic completionist have something to strive for best in slot without quiting from boredom after running around in god mode. What point are all those ETRs if there isn't something that needs them?

  15. #15
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    187

    Default

    I didn't particularly like the introduction of tiered N/H/E loot, so I hope we can stay away from that.

    I'd say:

    1) Put very nice things on the 20th reward list, that can only be gotten on the 20th reward list, and that you may reasonably want more than one of...unique Augments, strong Tomes, a big pile of CoVs, other stuff...

    2) Normal counts as 1 completion, Hard as 2, Elite as 4.

  16. #16
    Community Member rest's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burque
    Posts
    5,602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    And unless there's some substantial changes to the loot itself, it's probably not going to be worth running the raids at all, on any difficulty...
    Winner!

  17. #17
    Uber Completionist
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    And unless there's some substantial changes to the loot itself, it's probably not going to be worth running the raids at all, on any difficulty...
    So true, and especially with only 4 items per raid.... people will stop doing it as soon as they have their " 1 " item. Personally, I don't even want anything from this loot table, so all depends on how long it takes to get the mats for crafting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    /signed

    But with army of causals feeling entitled to best rewards with no effort, its not going to happen :/
    You're most likely correct... DDO's population is already very low, and the % of hardcore gamers doesn't represent many of us at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    You mean drop rates of:

    Normal: 0.1%
    Hard: 0.3%
    Elite: 0.5%

    For the exact same loot isnt enough to have you run on EE?
    Not at all. People will do what they can easily do, and run it more often til they have their loot, rather than bang their head in a wall. Not only should the loot be better in EH and EE, it should be WAYYYY better.

    An example of loot that is worth getting on EE is the Ring of Shadows. There is a world of difference between EN and EE. And you don't get Lesser Displacement anywhere else ( I think ).
    Icywave - Orien Server - On life 88 - First Ultimate Completionist - 3x all past life feats- Guild: Intel Rq'd
    Build & Gear: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ast-life-feats

  18. #18
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    349

    Default filling PUGs

    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    There is already enough "Incentive" for EE.

    1: Its more challenging. Isnt this whats really wanted? I see people claim this constantly.... But then we see threads like this pop up. So I'm guessing the challenge really is secondary?
    2: Higher XP

    3: Higher Drop Rate of named items.

    4: the everlasting admiration of all the casual gamers that are in awe at your ability to complete quests on EE!
    I believe this was a "Tongue in Cheek" post...but its a good jumping-off point for me.
    Yes, the challenge is wonderful and also the admiration, but how do we get the majority of newer players with character builds that dominate in EH and flounder in EE to make the jump. How do we get these EH players to ask "how do I make my build better" or "what tactics should I be using that will allow my character to survive this or that" ...by loot incentives.

    And if there's incentive, the PUGs will fill :-)

  19. #19
    Community Member imTonE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75

    Default

    The Draconic Soul Gem is one of the main reasons why I still enjoy running EE FOT, outside of the fun of the raid itself. I'd like to see something similar with the new raids.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ddorimble View Post
    1) Put very nice things on the 20th reward list, that can only be gotten on the 20th reward list, and that you may reasonably want more than one of...unique Augments, strong Tomes, a big pile of CoVs, other stuff...

    2) Normal counts as 1 completion, Hard as 2, Elite as 4.
    That... that is not a bad idea. I don't know if the raid loot should be *only* in the 20th list, there should be normal drop rates in end chests too, but in general speeding up the 20th list and a few unique items would be incentive for sure...

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload