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  1. #1
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    Default Why reducing the xp for E Von 3 is so painful

    I run E Von 3 from 3 to 5 times a day on characters that could easily solo it. However I always open a pug and welcome all players that have more than 320 hp. I don't know why 320 is my cutoff btw. I see strong and very weak players join my pugs. Since the quest is quick and the xp so great I don't judge people unless they are rude or disruptive. I have not kicked/ discriminated against players that have died even in the prequest (shocking but true).

    Halving the xp really reduces the incentive for me to run the quest especially with players that are likely to die or can barely contribute. I know this is the intention but this change is more than just xp. It causes the game to be just one more bit unfriendly and unwelcome. When the xp was abundant, I went out of my way to be generous. And this game doesn't need any more reasons to be unfriendly or unwelcome. Also since this quest was so universally popular it became a mixing point between veteran and newer players. It was a mixer like the old shroud and it let weaker characters see some real min max builds in action and it let vets see experimental builds and see typical players in action. The game as it stands now has stratified quite a bit. There is a huge difference between a multi-life fully geared monkcher and a sword and board melee with average gear. And for casters a similar divide is growing. I see casters who can kill a mob (continuously) every 2 sec to some that need a full 10 seconds.

    I genuinely wonder if the devs and turbine staff realize that the after effects of some decisions are greater than what is immediately apparent. Another big one is the placement of quest entrances that require an absurd long run to get to. Probably the worst decision was to punish larger guilds for having more casual members and as result the great kickout of a lot fun players whose only crime was that they played only once a week. Finally, the lack of a varied raid scene took a big bite out of the life of the game. I remember when people would gather for raids and do small talk during the easier ones then when done, would break for questing groups. I genuinely miss those times.

    For the devs and Turbine in general, small things can have big unforeseen consequences. I hope the player council can help you avoid some of the larger losses in the game.

  2. #2
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    You do realise the nerf is EXACTLY to have you run it less often, and other content more often?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcalm3000 View Post
    I run E Von 3 from 3 to 5 times a day on characters that could easily solo it. However I always open a pug and welcome all players that have more than 320 hp. I don't know why 320 is my cutoff btw. I see strong and very weak players join my pugs. Since the quest is quick and the xp so great I don't judge people unless they are rude or disruptive. I have not kicked/ discriminated against players that have died even in the prequest (shocking but true).

    Halving the xp really reduces the incentive for me to run the quest especially with players that are likely to die or can barely contribute. I know this is the intention but this change is more than just xp. It causes the game to be just one more bit unfriendly and unwelcome. When the xp was abundant, I went out of my way to be generous. And this game doesn't need any more reasons to be unfriendly or unwelcome. Also since this quest was so universally popular it became a mixing point between veteran and newer players. It was a mixer like the old shroud and it let weaker characters see some real min max builds in action and it let vets see experimental builds and see typical players in action. The game as it stands now has stratified quite a bit. There is a huge difference between a multi-life fully geared monkcher and a sword and board melee with average gear. And for casters a similar divide is growing. I see casters who can kill a mob (continuously) every 2 sec to some that need a full 10 seconds.

    I genuinely wonder if the devs and turbine staff realize that the after effects of some decisions are greater than what is immediately apparent. Another big one is the placement of quest entrances that require an absurd long run to get to. Probably the worst decision was to punish larger guilds for having more casual members and as result the great kickout of a lot fun players whose only crime was that they played only once a week. Finally, the lack of a varied raid scene took a big bite out of the life of the game. I remember when people would gather for raids and do small talk during the easier ones then when done, would break for questing groups. I genuinely miss those times.

    For the devs and Turbine in general, small things can have big unforeseen consequences. I hope the player council can help you avoid some of the larger losses in the game.
    It's absurd to think that a quest that is so out of whack with the rest of the game xp/min-wise that you would run it 3-5 times a day is a good thing.

  4. #4
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    How many vcomms you get from 20-28 this way?
    I did only ee von 3 once, lvl 26 now, got 3k vcomms so far.

  5. #5
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    My post was about how the xp nerf will affect the community and how it erodes even just a little how friendly the game is. I have 3 strong toons and 3 weak ones. The net change for me is less work on the weakest two. I can solo and do other quests just fine except for the ones with absurdly long walks to. But as my xp per min drops ill be more choosy in my groups or solo more often which I would like the point out is increasingly the trend in the game more solo more choosy more elitist.

  6. #6
    Community Member stoopid_cowboy's Avatar
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    Would you rather go back to standing on a bell all day long?
    Quote Originally Posted by KookieKobold View Post
    I guess pants can be optional

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcalm3000 View Post
    My post was about how the xp nerf will affect the community and how it erodes even just a little how friendly the game is. I have 3 strong toons and 3 weak ones. The net change for me is less work on the weakest two. I can solo and do other quests just fine except for the ones with absurdly long walks to. But as my xp per min drops ill be more choosy in my groups or solo more often which I would like the point out is increasingly the trend in the game more solo more choosy more elitist.
    Which is fine. This may actually be a plus for the community. Anyone being choosing over Von 3 probably shouldn't be losing groups, and if you find your xp/min will be higher soloing then go for it. I don't know what you want people to say.

  8. #8
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoopid_cowboy View Post
    Would you rather go back to standing on a bell all day long?
    who are you? and why have to rung the bell?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    How many vcomms you get from 20-28 this way?
    I did only ee von 3 once, lvl 26 now, got 3k vcomms so far.
    I would love to know which dungeons you run. I have 4,300 after 2 runs to 28 and another toon from 25 to nearly 28. I hardly touched VON 3 as well.

    Im guessing all EE starting the Wheloon/Druids Deep/High Road/Stormhorns as early as possible?

    Something very few people would be able to do.

  10. #10
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    I would love to know which dungeons you run. I have 4,300 after 2 runs to 28 and another toon from 25 to nearly 28. I hardly touched VON 3 as well.

    Im guessing all EE starting the Wheloon/Druids Deep/High Road/Stormhorns as early as possible?

    Something very few people would be able to do.
    Every day I run, Overgrowth, Outbreak, ID, and the 3 schind quests. I have 3 toons that do this daily and the comms add up very quickly. I still run my von 3 and wiz king for the xp, but the comms are easy to get if you follow a good path.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  11. #11
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    I would love to know which dungeons you run. I have 4,300 after 2 runs to 28 and another toon from 25 to nearly 28. I hardly touched VON 3 as well.

    Im guessing all EE starting the Wheloon/Druids Deep/High Road/Stormhorns as early as possible?

    Something very few people would be able to do.
    No, I dont have shadowfail pack.
    I do saga quests, only on ee, the quests are: high road, citw flagging quests with belly and ddtw, all gh quests, druid deep and lod chain.
    From 20-28 I do nothing but ee quests.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcalm3000 View Post
    My post was about how the xp nerf will affect the community and how it erodes even just a little how friendly the game is. I have 3 strong toons and 3 weak ones. The net change for me is less work on the weakest two. I can solo and do other quests just fine except for the ones with absurdly long walks to. But as my xp per min drops ill be more choosy in my groups or solo more often which I would like the point out is increasingly the trend in the game more solo more choosy more elitist.
    Ime, XP/min is a minority playstyle on the pug scene. I'm on Thelanis, and pug constantly. With very few exceptions, either the people joining my pugs aren't XP/minners, or they don't base the quality of their play experience solely on it. I've honestly only had one person in the last year or so drop group because of XP/min: we were running EHard Servants, and were DDooring for the Drow opt. He left saying it wasn't worth it. I honestly can't remember when this happened before.

    If bringing VoN3 down from ridiculously high best XP in game down to (probably still) best XP in game will really impede your interest in pugging, that's unfortunate. I also highly doubt this XP change will have an appreciable effect on the LFM panel.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  13. #13
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    My point is exactly that, the xp was so good I didn't concern myself with xp per min or low hp characters or slower players. As they cut the xp those concerns rise. I can compensate by running other quests and running von 3 much faster and being less accommodating to weaker characters and slow players who just don't seem to start quests very efficiently. It pushes more and more people to what is increasingly common, players who stop pugging entirely. Is that a good thing?

  14. #14
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcalm3000 View Post
    I run E Von 3 from 3 to 5 times a day on characters that could easily solo it. However I always open a pug and welcome all players that have more than 320 hp. I don't know why 320 is my cutoff btw. I see strong and very weak players join my pugs. Since the quest is quick and the xp so great I don't judge people unless they are rude or disruptive. I have not kicked/ discriminated against players that have died even in the prequest (shocking but true).

    Halving the xp really reduces the incentive for me to run the quest especially with players that are likely to die or can barely contribute. I know this is the intention but this change is more than just xp. It causes the game to be just one more bit unfriendly and unwelcome. When the xp was abundant, I went out of my way to be generous. And this game doesn't need any more reasons to be unfriendly or unwelcome. Also since this quest was so universally popular it became a mixing point between veteran and newer players. It was a mixer like the old shroud and it let weaker characters see some real min max builds in action and it let vets see experimental builds and see typical players in action. The game as it stands now has stratified quite a bit. There is a huge difference between a multi-life fully geared monkcher and a sword and board melee with average gear. And for casters a similar divide is growing. I see casters who can kill a mob (continuously) every 2 sec to some that need a full 10 seconds.

    I genuinely wonder if the devs and turbine staff realize that the after effects of some decisions are greater than what is immediately apparent. Another big one is the placement of quest entrances that require an absurd long run to get to. Probably the worst decision was to punish larger guilds for having more casual members and as result the great kickout of a lot fun players whose only crime was that they played only once a week. Finally, the lack of a varied raid scene took a big bite out of the life of the game. I remember when people would gather for raids and do small talk during the easier ones then when done, would break for questing groups. I genuinely miss those times.

    For the devs and Turbine in general, small things can have big unforeseen consequences. I hope the player council can help you avoid some of the larger losses in the game.
    reduction in Von xp was an eventual thing to happen. it was just a matter of time.

    you say you can easily solo that quest and open the lfm to pugs and don't discriminate or get upset if people die, but you say halfing the xp reduces the incentive to run with players that could die or not contribute as much as you can. something wrong with that way of thinking.

    new or inexperienced players can still see how good experienced players rofflestomp quests. it happens all over the place in the game and not limited to Von 3.

    the absurd run to the quest was originally meant for immersion and it was before the time of ship buffs. only the recent NPC teleporter and long run to the quests was meant to be a cash grab. if not, than that is what it appears to be. this is something that should be looked into with some quests in explorer areas that take longer than necessary if you add up running from the ship to Eveningstar, all the load screens and than through the wilderness area to get to a quest. solo farming for some quests is just too much of a pain.

    there have been adjustments to guilds earning renown and right now there is still no decay. i think they realized the problems with it.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  15. #15
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    I think people responding to the von 3 nerf as no big deal pls tell me how many open unrestricted pugs they run daily?

  16. #16
    Community Member dungan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcalm3000 View Post
    I think people responding to the von 3 nerf as no big deal pls tell me how many open unrestricted pugs they run daily?
    My friend and I have been pugging a lot the last few lives. Probably 3-5 quests per night plus a couple of von 3 runs. I don't see this changing anything.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcalm3000 View Post
    I think people responding to the von 3 nerf as no big deal pls tell me how many open unrestricted pugs they run daily?
    While I can't offer a number I can offer this: wether I'm in heroic or epic, the only quests I don't post lfm's for are the ones I run with a full group I already pugged up on the previous quests - unless I'm soloing Devils Assault for tokens ofc.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcalm3000 View Post
    My point is exactly that, the xp was so good I didn't concern myself with xp per min or low hp characters or slower players. As they cut the xp those concerns rise. I can compensate by running other quests and running von 3 much faster and being less accommodating to weaker characters and slow players who just don't seem to start quests very efficiently. It pushes more and more people to what is increasingly common, players who stop pugging entirely. Is that a good thing?
    Like I said, that's you. Me? I last life I pugged out an EE VoN 1-4 max lvl 25 for Streak (I didn't run them on heroic that life). You know what happened? It took 3 tries to get through VoN 1 (that combined wave is brutal!) before we succeded. The XP/min of such a venture is terrible - fortunately none of us were overly concerned about such things, we just came to play. Reducing VoN 3 XP will have no effect on the playstyle of me or any who play like me.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  19. #19
    Community Member RapkintheRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcalm3000 View Post
    I run E Von 3 from 3 to 5 times a day on characters that could easily solo it. However I always open a pug and welcome all players that have more than 320 hp. I don't know why 320 is my cutoff btw. I see strong and very weak players join my pugs. Since the quest is quick and the xp so great I don't judge people unless they are rude or disruptive. I have not kicked/ discriminated against players that have died even in the prequest (shocking but true).

    Halving the xp really reduces the incentive for me to run the quest especially with players that are likely to die or can barely contribute. I know this is the intention but this change is more than just xp. It causes the game to be just one more bit unfriendly and unwelcome. When the xp was abundant, I went out of my way to be generous. And this game doesn't need any more reasons to be unfriendly or unwelcome. Also since this quest was so universally popular it became a mixing point between veteran and newer players. It was a mixer like the old shroud and it let weaker characters see some real min max builds in action and it let vets see experimental builds and see typical players in action. The game as it stands now has stratified quite a bit. There is a huge difference between a multi-life fully geared monkcher and a sword and board melee with average gear. And for casters a similar divide is growing. I see casters who can kill a mob (continuously) every 2 sec to some that need a full 10 seconds.

    I genuinely wonder if the devs and turbine staff realize that the after effects of some decisions are greater than what is immediately apparent. Another big one is the placement of quest entrances that require an absurd long run to get to. Probably the worst decision was to punish larger guilds for having more casual members and as result the great kickout of a lot fun players whose only crime was that they played only once a week. Finally, the lack of a varied raid scene took a big bite out of the life of the game. I remember when people would gather for raids and do small talk during the easier ones then when done, would break for questing groups. I genuinely miss those times.

    For the devs and Turbine in general, small things can have big unforeseen consequences. I hope the player council can help you avoid some of the larger losses in the game.

    Here is the thing.

    I want to run a quest that works.

    I decided to do something different and regret it again

    Running druids deep/druids curse and of course the friggen thing bugs out.

    So i wait like 45 min fro a GM to complete the quest for 45K exp:


    waste of a GS hire
    waste of a gem of fortune
    waste of an EXP pot
    waste of an evening

    i should have just run VON3.. then i could have had some good exp/min... instead of this terrible nonsense

  20. #20
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    It is amazing to see such a large group of players who don't respond to incentives and say they actually run open epic elite lfms at level for BB. I find that hard to believe because humans respond to incentives but since I have not personally seen these players actually put open epic elite at bb lfms up and not judge the hp or stats of people who join.

    I congratulate you because my experience has been seeing more and more backchannel pugs and endless lfms with words like vet, know it, BYOH proliferate and it would be great if there were more players who ran open unrestrictive epic elite lfms without judgement It would be good for the game..

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