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  1. #21
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gljosh View Post
    I hope the "Past Update 21" sticks for a while level 30 Iconic and Epic TRs are currently not worth it. Unless Turbine is trying to sell more Epic Otto boxes.
    yeah the level cap 30 is scheduled for the end of 2014.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    Please leave the jumping puzzles to guild warts 2 please. Here on ddo you guys can't get ladders and lag right. No one likes loot lotteries or lag lotteries if their latency will let them land where they wish.
    Lame, some of us actually LIKE things that test our skill. One of the worst aspects of DDO especially recent content is that everything is a linear hack and slash of uninteruppted blandness and boredom and another beat down at the end with different colored mobs. Somehow Raids like Abbot are the exception and raids like "Generic arena beat down" are the norm.

    DDO has plenty of room for a little content that actually puts control and movement skill and abilities like abundant step and wings to use.

    Without applicable uses abilities are lame and pointless... Dance of the water strider is the perfect example of a "ability" that because it only was useful in Abbot (basically) got the axe.

    Sorry if there's 1 new optional, 1 raid and 3 quests you can't do well because you're not good at controlling your character then tough &*^%y perhaps realize that you shouldn't expect the game to only consider poorly skilled players?

    DDO needs MORE of this not less... 99% of the quests have layouts that are of zero challenge... that's plenty for you.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  3. #23
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    There is one (singular), entirely optional jumping puzzle in the U21 Raids. It is but one path that can be chosen.
    Jumping puzzle looks great.

    Gravity room looks like even more fun.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Lame, some of us actually LIKE things that test our skill. One of the worst aspects of DDO especially recent content is that everything is a linear hack and slash of uninteruppted blandness and boredom and another beat down at the end with different colored mobs. Somehow Raids like Abbot are the exception and raids like "Generic arena beat down" are the norm.

    DDO has plenty of room for a little content that actually puts control and movement skill and abilities like abundant step and wings to use.

    Without applicable uses abilities are lame and pointless... Dance of the water strider is the perfect example of a "ability" that because it only was useful in Abbot (basically) got the axe.

    Sorry if there's 1 new optional, 1 raid and 3 quests you can't do well because you're not good at controlling your character then tough &*^%y perhaps realize that you shouldn't expect the game to only consider poorly skilled players?

    DDO needs MORE of this not less... 99% of the quests have layouts that are of zero challenge... that's plenty for you.
    Overall I think the people who like all puzzles and all jumping are a very small minority. Not saying that there shouldn't be any puzzles, but to me they're illogical and corny. Most badarse baddies wouldn't worry so much about floor puzzles when they can stomp the snot out of something. Personally I like a little but more inventive stuff - puzzles are not inventive. They're either of the twitch or the mundane kind. And doing silly mirror puzzles or jumping stuff while in this ancient temple just feels corny. Here's a dark one; a really powerful beast. Ready to consume your flesh and soul. Now enjoy these puzzles and jumping.

    It just doesn't feel like fantasy to me. But it is what it is. Either this will turn into a raid few and fanatic runs like Abbott or something broader. Lets hope for broader.

  5. #25
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Overall I think the people who like all puzzles and all jumping are a very small minority. Not saying that there shouldn't be any puzzles, but to me they're illogical and corny. Most badarse baddies wouldn't worry so much about floor puzzles when they can stomp the snot out of something. Personally I like a little but more inventive stuff - puzzles are not inventive. They're either of the twitch or the mundane kind. And doing silly mirror puzzles or jumping stuff while in this ancient temple just feels corny. Here's a dark one; a really powerful beast. Ready to consume your flesh and soul. Now enjoy these puzzles and jumping.

    It just doesn't feel like fantasy to me. But it is what it is. Either this will turn into a raid few and fanatic runs like Abbott or something broader. Lets hope for broader.
    Odd considering all the traps, puzzles, riddles, and options in every fantasy setting out there.

    I liked the jumping room. I like that the raid has a ton of puzzles. I am surprised it doesn't have a few more. It is a raid after all. Why not something that ports each member into a puzzle.

    It can have the powerful beast guarding said exit. Puzzle bypass, beast fight if wrong. You win the puzzle, the beast moves to a different boss optional.

    However, the raid full of puzzles is just fine. Plenty of easiness to them since some people don't want to wrack their brain to solve a jumping puzzle, or a mirror puzzle. I am sure the same minority that loves puzzles is mirrored by an equal minority that hates them.

  6. #26
    Community Member Brattyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    Please leave the jumping puzzles to guild warts 2 please. Here on ddo you guys can't get ladders and lag right. No one likes loot lotteries or lag lotteries if their latency will let them land where they wish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    There is one (singular), entirely optional jumping puzzle in the U21 Raids. It is but one path that can be chosen.
    Steel...they say you can't please everyone. And even when you give them choices, they still complain instead of thanking you. So, I'll say it, thank you for all the work you've done, brining us new raids with such a nice variety of good stuff.
    Khyber - Flirtybratt (8/6/6 rogue/ranger/monk), Bratttt (pure rogue assassin) & various other toons with brat in the name. I am, of course, the brat in BrattyTop!

  7. #27
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Overall I think the people who like all puzzles and all jumping are a very small minority
    I like puzzles. Having to think is a nice change of pace.

    I ABSOLUTELY HATE Mario-style jumping. Glad to hear it is an optional.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

  8. #28
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Overall I think the people who like all puzzles and all jumping are a very small minority. Not saying that there shouldn't be any puzzles, but to me they're illogical and corny.
    "all puzzles" and "all jumping" where'd you get that from? LOL seems like you're trying to paint the issue as a few people who want DDO to be made "all" challenging... hmmm maybe not a bad idea, would probably suit DDO better than the current paradigm of trying to get casual gamers to play a game with mouselook and FPS controls. Maybe you're on to something, maybe DDO should stop trying to fit square pegs into the games complex polyhedron holes?

    Seriously I'm not asking Turbine to cater only to people who have twitch skill (though again maybe I should be, spending marketing money on customers who can't hack the controls is just wasted marketing money), I'm asking them to include us occasionally, throw us the odd bone, the occasional Crucible, the odd Abbot and ignore the lowest common denominator who are so unskilled that they are frightened by an OPTIONAL jumping puzzle.

    MMMMM Tomb of Horrors.... I wonder if Turbine can get permission it's a free module these days...
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    I like puzzles. Having to think is a nice change of pace.

    I ABSOLUTELY HATE Mario-style jumping. Glad to hear it is an optional.
    I like both glad to hear it's an optional that I can hopefully do while others are off doing the main objectives.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  10. #30
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Puzzle suck, it is a waste of time developing content around it.

    But what do I know besides being right about pretty much everything.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    Odd considering all the traps, puzzles, riddles, and options in every fantasy setting out there.

    I liked the jumping room. I like that the raid has a ton of puzzles. I am surprised it doesn't have a few more. It is a raid after all. Why not something that ports each member into a puzzle.

    It can have the powerful beast guarding said exit. Puzzle bypass, beast fight if wrong. You win the puzzle, the beast moves to a different boss optional.

    However, the raid full of puzzles is just fine. Plenty of easiness to them since some people don't want to wrack their brain to solve a jumping puzzle, or a mirror puzzle. I am sure the same minority that loves puzzles is mirrored by an equal minority that hates them.
    I don't think it's a question of ease or hate. Personally it's hard enough to coordinate most raids and making it a raid that can take hours makes it even more niche. A raid full of puzzles would turn off a majority of players and make it one of those things elite players do, leaving very little for the end game for most players.

    I understand that raiding as a whole is already in the dog house, making it a frustrating experience for most and a delight for few is as successful as the current dilapidated raid scene. We're right now down to shroud for most, VON for some and FoT reliably. The rest is mostly dead. And that's a pity.

  12. #32

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    IronClan, do you solo a lot? I do, and I love puzzles and Mario skills in DDO. All kinds: Prove Your Worth ladder jumping, Crucible maze/trap room/swim, Raiding the Giants Vault, the rat maze in necro3, Lights Out puzzles in Trial By Fury, etc... Love them all, so I hear what you're saying.

    But I love them as a soloist. They are terrible mechanics for grouping. Does anyone enjoy standing around for half an hour doing nothing in Tomb of the Tormented while the one guy leads the rats through the maze? Or standing around in crucible while the swimmer swims?

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    "all puzzles" and "all jumping" where'd you get that from? LOL seems like you're trying to paint the issue as a few people who want DDO to be made "all" challenging... hmmm maybe not a bad idea, would probably suit DDO better than the current paradigm of trying to get casual gamers to play a game with mouselook and FPS controls. Maybe you're on to something, maybe DDO should stop trying to fit square pegs into the games complex polyhedron holes?

    Seriously I'm not asking Turbine to cater only to people who have twitch skill (though again maybe I should be, spending marketing money on customers who can't hack the controls is just wasted marketing money), I'm asking them to include us occasionally, throw us the odd bone, the occasional Crucible, the odd Abbot and ignore the lowest common denominator who are so unskilled that they are frightened by an OPTIONAL jumping puzzle.

    MMMMM Tomb of Horrors.... I wonder if Turbine can get permission it's a free module these days...
    If we skip the idiotic sarcasm, this is one of the few ends raids we have for this year. We're down to FoT and Shroud for most parts. If even that.

    This raid is mostly puzzles no? My argument is not for none, I think I made that clear. There's absolutely no need to counter argue with fictitious statements about what you absurdly claim I meant.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    IronClan, do you solo a lot? I do, and I love puzzles and Mario skills in DDO. All kinds: Prove Your Worth ladder jumping, Crucible maze/trap room/swim, Raiding the Giants Vault, the rat maze in necro3, Lights Out puzzles in Trial By Fury, etc... Love them all, so I hear what you're saying.

    But I love them as a soloist. They are terrible mechanics for grouping. Does anyone enjoy standing around for half an hour doing nothing in Tomb of the Tormented while the one guy leads the rats through the maze? Or standing around in crucible while the swimmer swims?
    In shroud they were smart enough to make it a puzzle for everyone - and it failed very few times. And it was one puzzle segment which is good. And you're right; puzzles are good for small groups and only one part of the over all quest. The more puzzles the longer things take. The fewer that does them the more time you waste waiting for one or a few person to complete them. And if we are indeed going to have a raid full of puzzles I hope they can add mechanics that engage the entire raid team.

  15. #35
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldin View Post
    Nonsense! Jumping Puzzles are great. In fact, I'm eagerly awaiting the day the Pit becomes an epic quest.
    Epic Pit.

    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  16. #36
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    IronClan, do you solo a lot? I do, and I love puzzles and Mario skills in DDO. All kinds: Prove Your Worth ladder jumping, Crucible maze/trap room/swim, Raiding the Giants Vault, the rat maze in necro3, Lights Out puzzles in Trial By Fury, etc... Love them all, so I hear what you're saying.

    But I love them as a soloist. They are terrible mechanics for grouping. Does anyone enjoy standing around for half an hour doing nothing in Tomb of the Tormented while the one guy leads the rats through the maze? Or standing around in crucible while the swimmer swims?
    It worked out fine in the Shroud.

    As long as there is a way to bypass it for the people who just genuinely can't do it themselves (in the Shroud, you can either break crystals or get someone else to do it for you), I'm happy.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Epic Pit.
    Oh man, that would be so full of win it'd spill.

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    It worked out fine in the Shroud.

    As long as there is a way to bypass it for the people who just genuinely can't do it themselves (in the Shroud, you can either break crystals or get someone else to do it for you), I'm happy.
    As long as the puzzles engage everyone in the group, and others can help if absolutely needed, then agreed that puzzles in raids are awesome. Shroud is a perfect implementation of raid puzzles. VON5 is...not. ADQ1 is pretty good, albeit essentially inconsequential.

    The key is to not have multiple players standing around doing nothing while waiting for the puzzle guys to do the puzzles. That's why Shroud is so perfect; you can keep busy running water.

  18. #38
    RangerDangerGrrl Kawai's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Looks great.
    especially the Shadow Dragon

    ps:
    Moar Jumping. Moar Puzzles.
    -and i HOPE they're deadly as hell!
    TKSK - Thelanis ("Best Server" -NyTimes).

  19. #39
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    Jump Jump Jump .....

    Oh yeah Coalescence Chamber is sooooooooooo much fun!!!

    Not! What a waste of time. It didn't bring any additional challenge and I wonder how popular it would have been if not mandatory for Shroud Flagging and GS Crafting.
    Icywave - Orien Server - On life 88 - First Ultimate Completionist - 3x all past life feats- Guild: Intel Rq'd
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  20. #40
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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