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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Imo, there are too few trade-offs in this game. With little to no sacrifice you can play all roles at once. Why would you ever bother to play a pure barb or paladin if you can have a versatile toon that does the same damage combined with self-healing and useful defensive capabilities? In a proper game you would trade-off a lot of damage for these defensive capabilities. Ever since epic destinies the balance is completely gone.
    While I agree with you and witness the same imbalance as well, I feel like the difficulty of the game is so much all over the place (from super easy to relatively hard), I believe there actually is room for "fun/gimp" weak build and stronger one. Let's say i'm looking to just have fun, running normal or hard, what would that best build give me? Ruin my fun mostly by killing all of the challenge, leaving me to faceroll content while reading the morning's newspaper.

    Most likely repeating myself here but in an action game like DDO, the best builds or the best items aren't needed to succeed in any content. What it does though is make it easier/faster and with much less risk of failing.

    What is bad though is that many people are looking for the facerolling builds even though they are not needed. It's fine, any powergamer will chose whatever is the strongest that's just understandable and makes sense. Good thing here, those same powergamers are the one looking for a challenge.

    It hurts because the diversity of builds is affected... but the reasons so seem mostly hype related. There's still room for so many builds in this game... it's just forum talks going on here again.
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  2. #42
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    • Redo metamagics so that only ONE at a time can be applied. This has been a balancing problem since beta of the game. Or better yet, get rid of them! I doubt that giving people a option to boost spells at the cost of SP will make good progress in balancing the game even if only one at a time can be applied.
    • Get rid of the jump skill and give EVERYONE a fixed jump value. Sure, it can go down by exhaustion, heavy loads, exc., but it can't go any higher than the fixed value. While your at it, get rid of abundant step and leap of faith, as well as any other jump abilities similar to this. This will help prevent issues of players abusing maps by jumping into spots they shouldn't be in, and prevent them from 'falling' off the map if they go through the boundaries.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Get rid of the jump skill and give EVERYONE a fixed jump value. Sure, it can go down by exhaustion, heavy loads, exc., but it can't go any higher than the fixed value. While your at it, get rid of abundant step and leap of faith, as well as any other jump abilities similar to this. This will help prevent issues of players abusing maps by jumping into spots they shouldn't be in, and prevent them from 'falling' off the map if they go through the boundaries.
    I always felt that quests where a good jump skill could make you save some time or skip a part of the dungeon was one of the best feature of the game. Actually anything related to the choices you made with your character that will affect your gameplay experience (without ever breaking it) is actually awesome to me. Flying through let sleeping dust lie to get the book? Totally awesome... and not everyone actually makes it even though they can leap/abundant step.

    Just why would you really want to change that exactly? Are you playing a skills starved class with low str and no UMD at all?
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    • Redo metamagics so that only ONE at a time can be applied. This has been a balancing problem since beta of the game. Or better yet, get rid of them! I doubt that giving people a option to boost spells at the cost of SP will make good progress in balancing the game even if only one at a time can be applied.
    • Get rid of the jump skill and give EVERYONE a fixed jump value. Sure, it can go down by exhaustion, heavy loads, exc., but it can't go any higher than the fixed value. While your at it, get rid of abundant step and leap of faith, as well as any other jump abilities similar to this. This will help prevent issues of players abusing maps by jumping into spots they shouldn't be in, and prevent them from 'falling' off the map if they go through the boundaries.
    At some point in the past, they did change Jump so that it caps at 40, in order to avoid people exploiting a very high Jump skill.

    And anyway, I don't find a fixed jump value to be a good idea. Fixing exploitable (not WAI) and buggy spots sounds like a better idea to me.


    As for the metamagics, i don't have much experience with casters, but removing them doesn't sound to me like a good idea, either. There must be better ways to balance the game.
    Last edited by Grecan; 02-10-2014 at 03:42 PM.
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  5. #45
    Community Member Lallajulia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadCookieQueen View Post
    I personally like living in the Forgotten Realms...Dalelands isn't bad...then there's Thay Thay...aaahhh red wizards of Thay...can you say awesome red robed evil fun magics...Though Calimshan...my heart goes there...it's like Arabian nights but so much more interesting (hint hint Turbine...Calimshan!)


    Actually there are groups of people who are devoted to role playing while playing DDO. Bit of nerd truth...my hubby and I will role play out our characters while building them or make random in character quips at each other while going through a dungeon. It's how we roll and we have fun...it's another element to the enjoyment of this game.

    I'm sorry you don't get it. I'm sorry you're close-minded and limited to the brain mush of WoW and other MMOs. Though don't ruin our game because you lack the imagination to play.
    sry, if i dissapoint you, but you are not role playing. at max you use few animated emotions. thats all what ddo can offer you. there is not role playing element in this game.

    role playing in this game is only combat role playing, not walking around meadows and picking flowers or sing bardic songs, make moral decisions by choosing step on path of good or evil. there is no such thing in this particular game. inside "open-minded" minds? oh, sure. if you want daydream who i to wake you?

    back to reality.
    problem have become much fundamental, than "fix this, fix that" level. and it will become only worse if they wont stop melt classes together. lot of people stopped grouping. why? no need. thats why. why no need? because all you need is dps and second minor role is trap disabling. and that you can do by just adding one single rogue level to any build.

    anyway, very radical suggestions(gordian knot) can help see problem from different angle.
    Last edited by Lallajulia; 02-10-2014 at 05:37 PM.
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  6. #46
    Community Member Seikojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grecan View Post
    For role-playing reasons



    I like multi-classing, but i think that they made it too powerful. I think they should give more incentives to play pure classes (aka: improve the worst aspects of the weakest pure classes)
    And you think PnP isn't this way?! I do think pure classing should be relatively viable as well. The problem there is what does pure class look like? A pure fighter would have little to no self healing, little to no way to save against traps, and not be the best at the fighters role. If the capstone was made to be better, it could help. But the capstones should give level based boosting instead of flat values. This way as you continue to level into epic levels, you still receive a benefit from going pure.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    And you think PnP isn't this way?!
    Did you see "PnP" in my post?
    I don't think so, lol ;D

    Do you think that if your great-grandfather was a slave you should be a slave, too?
    I don't think so...



    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    I do think pure classing should be relatively viable as well.
    I think they should be absolutely viable.



    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    The problem there is what does pure class look like?
    The "problem" is that there wouldn't be multi-classes if there weren't pure classes in the first place...



    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    A pure fighter would have little to no self healing, little to no way to save against traps, and not be the best at the fighters role. If the capstone was made to be better, it could help. But the capstones should give level based boosting instead of flat values. This way as you continue to level into epic levels, you still receive a benefit from going pure.
    It's kinda sad if a pure fighter isn't the best at the fighter's role.

    Yes, i think the capstones (and perhaps lower core abilities, too) should be boosted.
    If i haven't responded to your post, it doesn't necessarily mean that i don't have counter-arguments, it might simply mean that i don't want to keep feeding the trolls.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    When people say "its a barbarian its not supposed to heal itself, I ask where was your equivalent crusade on other classes? Why don't I see threads where youre saying "its a wizard, its not supposed to heal itself"? This happened years ago, and grew several times in orders of magnitude, and was supported to the point where insinuating anything else shouldn't have equivalent healing is a direct contradiction.
    it's just cause people get used to this stuff, like a self-healing wizard. First time i saw pale master i thought "tsk, this is not a wizard, totally going archmage"

    now i play pm's, and love them.

    I used to say DDO is not D&D, now i'm not quite sure. It's certantly not PnP (nor should be) but it's still some kind of super power-gamed D&D IMO. Some roles are still here, rogue/arti still disable traps.

    People has managed to replace some roles with other abilities (aka going monk, or splashing for evasion, and more); but they're still there. A barbarian it's still supossed to be the master of DPS and cleaving (and i say supossed with the DPS, but supreme cleave it's still barbs domain)

    My statement stands more accurate in heroics than epics though, the "problem" with epics is the fact that the destinies are not tied to a particular class. Now imaging if FotW would be pickable only with 10+ barb levels, or LD with 10+ fighter levels; would be quite a change, wouldnt it ?

    I agree with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Barbarians either need to have similar dps and similar healing as everyone else, or they need to do more DPS than everyone else to the point where it is recognizable they are doing more DPS, with no self healing improvement.
    Last edited by harry-pancreas; 02-19-2014 at 03:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

  9. #49
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    With all the respect to you Lallajulia, please don't hate me for saying this.. I don't mean anything bad.
    But, what are you trying to achieve in this thread. I mean, you think all classes need some rebalancing? -
    - is this serious question or you just wanted to hear our opinion on this.
    Last edited by Angelic-council; 02-19-2014 at 06:18 PM.

  10. #50
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallajulia View Post
    sry, if i dissapoint you, but you are not role playing. at max you use few animated emotions. thats all what ddo can offer you. there is not role playing element in this game.

    role playing in this game is only combat role playing, not walking around meadows and picking flowers or sing bardic songs, make moral decisions by choosing step on path of good or evil. there is no such thing in this particular game. inside "open-minded" minds? oh, sure. if you want daydream who i to wake you?

    back to reality.
    problem have become much fundamental, than "fix this, fix that" level. and it will become only worse if they wont stop melt classes together. lot of people stopped grouping. why? no need. thats why. why no need? because all you need is dps and second minor role is trap disabling. and that you can do by just adding one single rogue level to any build.

    anyway, very radical suggestions(gordian knot) can help see problem from different angle.
    lol there are role play guilds and people who do that here, all they need is an imagination and a way to communicate.

    Multiclassing has been a part of D&D for a while, you don't know what that is? Oh well too bad, run back to wow or something else please if thats what you want.

  11. #51
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post


    My statement stands more accurate in heroics than epics though, the "problem" with epics is the fact that the destinies are not tied to a particular class. Now imaging if FotW would be pickable only with 10+ barb levels, or LD with 10+ fighter levels; would be quite a change, wouldnt it ?

    I agree with this:
    Only problem with this is that some ED's really suck compared to others, if I had to spend all my time in US when I had a paladin I would of just given up.

  12. #52
    Community Member Spekdah_NZ's Avatar
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    Well I was going to say it cannot change that much, DDO has a DnD license from Wizards of the coast. It has a computer adapted version of the 3.5e d20 rules.

    It's the enchantments, ED's and a few store items which blur the class roles and abilities. If you went back to a more pure implementation and removed these and had proper prestige classes then things would be very different ... for a while .....

    There will always be players that like to min/max. There are some DnD boards and forums that have been around a very long time, 3.5 was released somewhere around 2003 and 3.0 years before that. You can find literally millions of builds. Not all these are relevant to DDO, but interesting too see people squeeze every stat out of multiple combinations. You can see discussions on struggles with stat allocation on monks, rangers and paladins with a 28 point build, posted 14 years ago. And the same topic raised again and again in each d20 game since like NWN and NWN2.

    It's human nature that these various "template" builds work their way out. And change patch after patch as the rules change. The self sufficiency surge allows players to just ... well play the game as they want and not be artificially held back.

    If we go back to archtype group dependency and having classes with set roles, then you could be stuck on guildship waiting to form a group with all the needed roles. I always remember Sebelis in EQ, trying to lvl up chars between 50-60. I remember my monk always got a pickup group for pulls. And I always remember all the paladins that had been sitting there waiting for some group to want them, some of them would wait for hours. Id hate it if DDO went that route.

  13. #53
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    Epic Normal should be like Epic Hard.

    Epic Hard maybe needs to be closer to Epic Elite.

    Epic Elite needs to be a little harder.

    Most classes revert back to core abilities in difficult content.
    En and Eh is too easy.

    Give players a good reason to run difficult content.
    Then dedicated healing is needed and more balanced groups are needed. Right now it is only EE raids.

    And this really stems from too much raid loot being gimped and no one running a lot of fun raid content.

    Versatility is good so you dont have to always wait for a balanced group, but only should be for EN content. Make the difficulties harder and revamp the old raids, and raid loot so they are played more. Also some of the AH gear ML is too low gimping named loot.

    EN is so easy the xp is a joke. EE is so tough the xp is a joke.

    BTW I love clerics. They are awesome. Lose the least by multiclassing and are a free class that benefits from other free classe splashes like Pal2/Ftr1 lol. I still see raids waiting around for me to join. Many players that liked cleric bought druid cause clerics were suppose to heal even if their HP, casting and melee was better than the gimp pug melee newbie the does not read the forums or know how to build and gear.
    Last edited by firemedium_jt; 02-19-2014 at 08:10 PM.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  14. #54
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Epic Normal should be like Epic Hard.

    Epic Hard maybe needs to be closer to Epic Elite.

    Epic Elite needs to be a little harder.

    Most classes revert back to core abilities in difficult content.
    En and Eh is too easy.

    Give players a good reason to run difficult content.

    Now dedicated healing is needed and more balanced groups are needed. Right now it is only EE raids

    And this really stems from too much raid loot being gimped and no one running a lot of fun raid content.
    YOu dont need dedicated healing in ee raids.

  15. #55
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailaesaedol View Post
    The whole thing about barbs from my perspective is just how limiting the whole "you pretty much cant do anything whilst raged". Theyve made barbarians strictly adhere to the PnP rules while giving other classes leeway. 'One with the Blade' is a crazy strong enhancement and ties two well-to-do melees together (which, balance issues aside, is quite innovative) for the better. The problem is they havent explored options of doing this with other classes (that I've noticed).

    If they are pushing for multiclasses for character optimisation and individuality I reckon they should explore the idea of maybe finding a way for rage to be less restricting. Would an enhancement that allows barbs to read scrolls or cast a spell with a triple cool down be on parity with One with the Blade? I think so, but I havent played a barb in a while so ymmv.
    Easy solutions:
    • Allow spell-like abilities to be used while raged.
    • Give us in-game purchasable potions with comparable healing to at least Lesser Silver Flame potions without all of the stupid drawbacks, and that stack normally.
    • Remove the outmoded drawbacks on Silver Flame potions and allow them to stack normally.
    • Make Bodyfeeder and Vampirism weapons stronger.
    • Give barbarians some form of self-healing (I suggestion heals that trigger upon killing an enemy, and/or scoring a crit/vorpal).
    • Stop selling Heal scrolls anywhere, then rebalance the way a lot of the major combats run to make them reasonable to approach without any scrolls.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Epic Normal should be like Epic Hard.

    Epic Hard maybe needs to be closer to Epic Elite.

    Epic Elite needs to be a little harder.

    Most classes revert back to core abilities in difficult content.
    En and Eh is too easy.

    Give players a good reason to run difficult content.
    Then dedicated healing is needed and more balanced groups are needed. Right now it is only EE raids.

    And this really stems from too much raid loot being gimped and no one running a lot of fun raid content.

    Versatility is good so you dont have to always wait for a balanced group, but only should be for EN content. Make the difficulties harder and revamp the old raids, and raid loot so they are played more. Also some of the AH gear ML is too low gimping named loot.

    EN is so easy the xp is a joke. EE is so tough the xp is a joke.

    BTW I love clerics. They are awesome. Lose the least by multiclassing and are a free class that benefits from other free classe splashes like Pal2/Ftr1 lol. I still see raids waiting around for me to join. Many players that liked cleric bought druid cause clerics were suppose to heal even if their HP, casting and melee was better than the gimp pug melee newbie the does not read the forums or know how to build and gear.
    Deleted.
    Last edited by Angelic-council; 02-19-2014 at 10:29 PM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    YOu dont need dedicated healing in ee raids.
    Maybe when you run with those you know, but pugging I doubt that. I mostly pug.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  18. #58
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Easy solutions:
    • Allow spell-like abilities to be used while raged.
    • Give us in-game purchasable potions with comparable healing to at least Lesser Silver Flame potions without all of the stupid drawbacks, and that stack normally.
    • Remove the outmoded drawbacks on Silver Flame potions and allow them to stack normally.
    • Make Bodyfeeder and Vampirism weapons stronger.
    • Give barbarians some form of self-healing (I suggestion heals that trigger upon killing an enemy, and/or scoring a crit/vorpal).
    • Stop selling Heal scrolls anywhere, then rebalance the way a lot of the major combats run to make them reasonable to approach without any scrolls.

    /signed.

  19. #59
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    • Redo metamagics so that only ONE at a time can be applied. This has been a balancing problem since beta of the game. Or better yet, get rid of them! I doubt that giving people a option to boost spells at the cost of SP will make good progress in balancing the game even if only one at a time can be applied.
    • Get rid of the jump skill and give EVERYONE a fixed jump value. Sure, it can go down by exhaustion, heavy loads, exc., but it can't go any higher than the fixed value. While your at it, get rid of abundant step and leap of faith, as well as any other jump abilities similar to this. This will help prevent issues of players abusing maps by jumping into spots they shouldn't be in, and prevent them from 'falling' off the map if they go through the boundaries.
    Yes, totally!

    Let's also get rid of all weapons except for the single archetype ones. So people can't have an ESOS, but just get "great sword." Others can use "longsword" and "pick," for example. As for armor, it needs to be changed to "heavy, medium and light" plus "robes." Shield can be "large, medium, small." That would simplify the game and make everyone the same.

    Nothing should be specialized - let's turn this game into DDOCCCP.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Yes, totally!

    Let's also get rid of all weapons except for the single archetype ones. So people can't have an ESOS, but just get "great sword." Others can use "longsword" and "pick," for example. As for armor, it needs to be changed to "heavy, medium and light" plus "robes." Shield can be "large, medium, small." That would simplify the game and make everyone the same.

    Nothing should be specialized - let's turn this game into DDOCCCP.
    Brilliant, just 5 out of 5 guys (0-o)d
    Last edited by Angelic-council; 02-20-2014 at 06:48 AM.

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