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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Devil Assault on Elite/Epic is decent for drops, pretty uncommon in lower level Heroic DA's..and I get the impression these players are not even 16 yet.

    Also...Keep in mind the Poster has not run shroud and poster runs with friends (2-4 of them) I am assuming they all will need shroud and base ingredients when they get to that level range.
    He has no ingredients indicating to me he has no alts and no cap toons and is playing on Wayfinder so smaller pool of players and AH shopping.

    So the shroud runs he will likely be running with his friends who will also need shards and ingredients.

    Probably not many pug runs where they can tag along for all you can carry hand me downs from other players being on Wayfinder.

    Repeated Vale/Shroud runs would be beneficial.
    Then banging out some EDA's once he hits 20+ is a bonus..

    All of this si quite true.... we picked wayfinder for its small po ....less lag....lower Que, but mostly because it requires us to learn the mechanics and not be carried. So our first pass is simply learn and prepair for our next time through .... is there any reason I shouldnt use the same build after a TR ?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noleta View Post
    In order to short manwould reqire a few epic resses though right ,.... which require endgame gear .... is out first play through so its gonna be pretty rough just not sure how we should tackle it to make it a little less painless..... so much has changed since the last time I played its like starting over.
    If you plan to do more play throughs than the first one with the same true reincarnated toons, I can tell that you won't need GS items. I'm in my third life now and never cared about GS, even ship buffs I ignore. The random items and few named/blue ones are sufficient, so I'd say: do the Greensteel stuff only on a toon who is in its final life, because after TR you will have to do all the pre reqs again to qualify for Shroud or any other content like VoN if they are required.

    Edit: If you do not level too fast, it could be possible to do the Shroud with Cordovan who already knows it a bit I assume
    Last edited by Lanhelin; 02-06-2014 at 10:18 AM.

  3. #23
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    26 is way too high. By the time my main guy hit 20 completions he had enough stuff to make a double shard belt and a single shard set of goggles. To make a simple single shard item, my guess would be 8-10 runs? That's assuming you don't get any ingredients elsewhere.

    For large shroud ingredients, Devil Assault beats shroud hands down, unless you want to buy a bunch of timer bypasses and run the raid 10 times in one day. Devil Assault can be run on epic normal, as far as i can tell, it gives the same number and quality of ingredients as the higher difficulties.

    My experience is the shards are easy to get in the raid. Most of the people running shroud aren't looking for shards, so they will be put up for roll. A reasonable expectation would be to get all of the shards you need in about 3 shroud runs, and even with terrible luck, you will have the shards before you have the ingredients to make something.
    26 was about right back in the days when part 5 had one large on all difficulties. (Actually 23 was closer to the truth; Large Devil Scales were limiting, dualshard recipes need 5½ of them on average, and you get an average of 0.08 of them in part 4 and 0.16 in part 5 normal)

    Now part 5 drops 0.16/0.24/0.40 large scales on average, so once you can do elite runs, it's about 11 runs to get a dualshard item made. Hard runs are much more accessible and will take ~18 runs.

    Just remember also that tier 2 items are probably worth using on their own if you are really new to the game.
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  4. #24
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    ...
    Edit: If you do not level too fast, it could be possible to do the Shroud with Cordovan who already knows it a bit I assume
    I actually consider to roll a level 15 iconic, just to PUG Shroud with Cordovan when he is ready

    Except of that, I agree that shroud items are not needed but are nice and you can usually already craft tier 1 after 3-5 runs and progressing the further you go. While on time running a couple of DA helps to stock up on ingredients.
    Last edited by SisAmethyst; 02-06-2014 at 05:28 PM.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  5. #25

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    The random items and few named/blue ones are sufficient, so I'd say: do the Greensteel stuff only on a toon who is in its final life, because after TR you will have to do all the pre reqs again to qualify for Shroud or any other content like VoN if they are required.
    A bizarre argument. I'd say getting Greensteel is far MORE important if you are TRing often, because they completely outclass any other gear you can put on at 11 and 12 (and going all the way to 21 and beyond).

    Flagging for Shroud is not much of an issue. You'll end up doing it anyway, since the quests are good XP in the late teens. The bigger issue is getting cleansing stones if you want more than one accessory. To do that, you'll need to spend a fair bit of time not TRing since getting a stone takes a minimum of 60 days, assuming you use no raid timer bypasses.
    I am the 'Who' In the call "Who's there!?"
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  6. #26
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    With soo many levels above shroud being available, short-man hard runs with raid timer bypasses will get you everything you need in short order.

    I have even see pets on part 2 not fail, so just do runs.

    You can AH buy everything, but it will take tons of plat. If you are on Sarlona, send me a mail. I am not building GS anytime soon, so I can help fill up to tier 2 easily and maybe even a few larges for free.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    With soo many levels above shroud being available, short-man hard runs with raid timer bypasses will get you everything you need in short order.

    I have even see pets on part 2 not fail, so just do runs.

    You can AH buy everything, but it will take tons of plat. If you are on Sarlona, send me a mail. I am not building GS anytime soon, so I can help fill up to tier 2 easily and maybe even a few larges for free.




    That would be very kind, however I am on wayfinder, so finding groups for shroud will probably be harder than running the content but we will see when the time comes, I prolly wont TR my toon until I have a GS weapon and Item.

    Also do I loose favor when Tring a toon ?

  8. #28

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    Also do I loose favor when Tring a toon ?
    Don't think of it as losing favor, think of it as a chance to earn more TP, and get another large ingredient bag and +2 tome per life. If you're really balls-out on going for Favor, and you wait a couple of updates, then you could hit 5000 each life and rack up a full set of +5 tomes.
    I am the 'Who' In the call "Who's there!?"
    I am the wind blowing through your hair.
    I am the shadow on the moon at night, filling your dreams to the brim with fright.

  9. #29
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Don't think of it as losing favor, think of it as a chance to earn more TP, and get another large ingredient bag and +2 tome per life. If you're really balls-out on going for Favor, and you wait a couple of updates, then you could hit 5000 each life and rack up a full set of +5 tomes.
    I just had an idea. What if 5000 favor also gave the option to choose an epic or iconic tr heart?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    A bizarre argument. I'd say getting Greensteel is far MORE important if you are TRing often, because they completely outclass any other gear you can put on at 11 and 12 (and going all the way to 21 and beyond).
    If you do Completionist, maybe it'd be worth it. If you follow a plan for this toon - no. Because you want to TR as soon as possible, reach your goal and not care about shroud crafting or any other thing that makes you not progress. I do not consider this argument bizarre.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noleta View Post
    All of this si quite true.... we picked wayfinder for its small po ....less lag....lower Que, but mostly because it requires us to learn the mechanics and not be carried. So our first pass is simply learn and prepair for our next time through .... is there any reason I shouldnt use the same build after a TR ?
    Nothing wrong with playing on the newer server, just means a little more grunt work and grinding on your own for some of the items that are pretty commonplace on the older servers.

    Past life feats from other classes often have benefits, and You may change your build as you evolve your play style.

    Passive past life feats can be stacked 3x.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats


    Quote Originally Posted by Noleta View Post
    That would be very kind, however I am on wayfinder, so finding groups for shroud will probably be harder than running the content but we will see when the time comes, I prolly wont TR my toon until I have a GS weapon and Item.

    Also do I loose favor when Tring a toon ?
    I would recommend running shroud at least 20 times for the cleansing stone and more to get all the items you need and some spares for later..

    There are some good generic standard Greensteel items that are useful when TR'ing..
    There is a lot to greensteel, spend some time becoming comfortable with it and GS crafting... I screwed up soo many GS items when Shroud first came out and it was all fresh and new.. take your time when crafting to double/triple check.
    That and a good greensteel crafting guide.. I prefer.. http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delallea/ddo/shroud/index but there are others out there.

    Some crafted T2 gear items are good clickie items are great.. haste, Displacement...(T3 offers a bit more overall, but if using just for the clickie T2 is all you need.
    T2 offhand Weapon Pos/Pos for a great raise dead clickie 1x/rest.



    and yes you lose your favor when TR'ing...
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(Completionist - before the Otto's/XP pots easymode), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-Epic Completionist), Whatthetruck.. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    A bizarre argument. I'd say getting Greensteel is far MORE important if you are TRing often, because they completely outclass any other gear you can put on at 11 and 12 (and going all the way to 21 and beyond).

    Flagging for Shroud is not much of an issue. You'll end up doing it anyway, since the quests are good XP in the late teens. The bigger issue is getting cleansing stones if you want more than one accessory. To do that, you'll need to spend a fair bit of time not TRing since getting a stone takes a minimum of 60 days, assuming you use no raid timer bypasses.
    /agreed.
    As soon as I could get into shroud I would farm shroud as often as I could to a minimum of 20 shrouds... probably more.
    Once I had as much as I could craft usefully and lots of spares, then I would start the TR cycles.

    Towards endgame some of the shroud items don't work as well anymore but at endgame you would expect this to be the case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    If you do Completionist, maybe it'd be worth it. If you follow a plan for this toon - no. Because you want to TR as soon as possible, reach your goal and not care about shroud crafting or any other thing that makes you not progress. I do not consider this argument bizarre.

    I also disagree with this.

    I would always recommend a first lifer to run shroud as much as possible.
    Until you have obtained all the optimal gear for a particular toon, GS is the best filler gear you could ever want, and best part is you can craft any piece of gear to work around whatever ideal gear you have or plan to have.

    Greensteel is in my opinion the best TR gear you could ever get as it covers level 11/12 through a lot if not all of Epic content.
    Clickies are useful from greesteel right through to end game.. (Displacement, Haste, Raise Dead, ..etc....

    I can see skipping shroud in future TR lives once you have pre-crafted all the GS items you would want.
    I don't understand why you would opt to skip these items for TR lives when they benefit these levels better than any other items.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(Completionist - before the Otto's/XP pots easymode), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-Epic Completionist), Whatthetruck.. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    I do not consider this argument bizarre.
    Your consideration doesnt' change the fact that it is.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
    Your consideration doesnt' change the fact that it is.
    Keeping in mind on which Server the OP plays it's bizarre to advice Shroud runs. I play on Wayfinder too since May '13 and never saw a Shroud lfg in the social menue. Advicing to do 20 Shroud runs with a toon before TRing on Wayfinder delays your progress for probably at least 1 year, carefully guessed. This is a fact. In this year you could successfully TR multiple times without any problems.

  15. #35
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    Keeping in mind on which Server the OP plays it's bizarre to advice Shroud runs. I play on Wayfinder too since May '13 and never saw a Shroud lfg in the social menue. Advicing to do 20 Shroud runs with a toon before TRing on Wayfinder delays your progress for probably at least 1 year, carefully guessed. This is a fact. In this year you could successfully TR multiple times without any problems.
    IF you can successfully TR multiple times in a year then 20 shroud runs should be no issue.
    20 runs with no raid timer bypasses to skip the 3 day timer = 60+ days for those that can stick to a tight schedule timer.. Realistically 90+ days.
    While you wait for timer to reset you run vale for ingredients and the other content like DQ, Von, Abbot.. and whatever other content that offers items you want..
    for an extreme casual player... even if it took a year it would be worth it...
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(Completionist - before the Otto's/XP pots easymode), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-Epic Completionist), Whatthetruck.. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    IF you can successfully TR multiple times in a year then 20 shroud runs should be no issue.
    20 runs with no raid timer bypasses to skip the 3 day timer = 60+ days for those that can stick to a tight schedule timer.. Realistically 90+ days.
    While you wait for timer to reset you run vale for ingredients and the other content like DQ, Von, Abbot.. and whatever other content that offers items you want..
    for an extreme casual player... even if it took a year it would be worth it...
    It's not a matter of 60+ or 90+ days, it's a matter of not finding other players. Raids on Wayfinder are exceptional, they use to happen on weekend only and then it's Tempest Spine or Chronoscope. At least this is what happens in the social group finding tool. It's even not easy to find other players for DA eN, I had days at european peak time where I waited two hours for DA eN for only 1 (one) other player to join and the level range was already set from 20 to 28.

    Regarding playing on Wayfinder: Instead of frustrating new or first life players by advicing to do Raids that are not necessary (I do not say that the GS items won't be very good for a toon) they rather should TR without GS crafting and stay happy players as long as possible.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    It's not a matter of 60+ or 90+ days, it's a matter of not finding other players. Raids on Wayfinder are exceptional, they use to happen on weekend only and then it's Tempest Spine or Chronoscope. At least this is what happens in the social group finding tool. It's even not easy to find other players for DA eN, I had days at european peak time where I waited two hours for DA eN for only 1 (one) other player to join and the level range was already set from 20 to 28.

    Regarding playing on Wayfinder: Instead of frustrating new or first life players by advicing to do Raids that are not necessary (I do not say that the GS items won't be very good for a toon) they rather should TR without GS crafting and stay happy players as long as possible.
    If we have any wayfinders fallowing this who have low lvl toons and need some one to regularly run stuff with shoot me a msg My friends and I have a very small baby guild on wayfinder and were more casual gamers than most we even have an run our own mumble

  18. #38
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanhelin View Post
    It's not a matter of 60+ or 90+ days, it's a matter of not finding other players. Raids on Wayfinder are exceptional, they use to happen on weekend only and then it's Tempest Spine or Chronoscope. At least this is what happens in the social group finding tool. It's even not easy to find other players for DA eN, I had days at european peak time where I waited two hours for DA eN for only 1 (one) other player to join and the level range was already set from 20 to 28.

    Regarding playing on Wayfinder: Instead of frustrating new or first life players by advicing to do Raids that are not necessary (I do not say that the GS items won't be very good for a toon) they rather should TR without GS crafting and stay happy players as long as possible.
    I am just offering my opinion based on my experiences.

    The poster has 4 gaming friends I am sure they can get more to run on a regular basis., learning the raid is the first part , running it repeatedly will follow.

    I am just saying that Shroud offers some of the best gaming gear and the best TR gear in the game, opting to skip it I believe is a mistake.

    If you choose to run Tempest spine and TR boring xp grind content continuously with subpar or random junk for the rest of your days instead of playing in shroud that is your prerogative.
    Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~
    Guild: Degenerate Matter - 200 (Former Guilds: ChaosKnights, Big Damn Heroes, Shadowfiends, Order of the Drow, Unusual Suspects, Raided R)
    Argo-Jotmon(Completionist - before the Otto's/XP pots easymode), Jotmonheals(Clr17/Rog2/Mnk1-Epic Completionist), Whatthetruck.. and many many more alts..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noleta View Post
    what would be the best way to aquire these as a small (3-5) group or solo or can it be done ???
    Elite or epic Devils Assault as often as you can within ransack rules with any shrouds you can get into (even a single shroud would be good to buy a stock the energy cells as these are a lower drop in DA). That's assuming access to alters on guild ships. Else you need shroud for that too.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    I am just offering my opinion based on my experiences.

    The poster has 4 gaming friends I am sure they can get more to run on a regular basis., learning the raid is the first part , running it repeatedly will follow.

    I am just saying that Shroud offers some of the best gaming gear and the best TR gear in the game, opting to skip it I believe is a mistake.

    If you choose to run Tempest spine and TR boring xp grind content continuously with subpar or random junk for the rest of your days instead of playing in shroud that is your prerogative.
    Frankly, better advice if this was what they were looking for would be to start over on another server. I have seen exactly 1 Shroud LFM in the last 6 months of nearly daily play on Wayfinder. It ended up 6 manning the raid after an hour.

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