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  1. #81
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Derp. All that MATH ™ and I still don't know the answer.
    Should we stop playing rangers or not ?
    Please advise.
    No, they have Cure Serious Wounds. Means you can hjeal meh.

    regarding whatever i need to get my 12/6/2 to cap with the full gear in the destiny of my choice to see how it holds up. the DPS feels stupidly better than the 18/1/1 and the 18/1/1 main advantage is fixed in the next patch (zillion hastes boost from both Tempest and Kensai, sure the 12/6/2 could do it but it no way in hell can afford the AP to do so).

    Survivability is close, while reconstruct hits for more the 18/1/1 has more healing options. Pretty much the the only thing the 18/1/1 has going for it are trap skills? Okay, it has better bow damage because you can fit in sniper shot (another thing that the 12/6/2 cannot afford).

    I'm looking forward to seeing how ranger 20s perform with the off-hand DS-fixed. Now if only they'd fix Character copy on Lamania so we could actually test stuff properly.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 02-05-2014 at 09:13 AM.

  2. #82
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Am I reading that right . . . againt it's 5 FEs the 20 ranger will beat the 12/6/2 kensai?
    Its looks to me like it's possible, a real test is needed, but I'm not sure it will be worth it.

    The Ranger in these set ups is a lot more of a glass cannon with less PRR and Dodge then the Fighter and not enough Healing Amp to get over 300 with CSW so to actually make the Ranger playable he's going to need to give up more. But I would say Pure Rangers are in a good place compared to all other pure classes.

  3. #83
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Its looks to me like it's possible, a real test is needed, but I'm not sure it will be worth it.

    The Ranger in these set ups is a lot more of a glass cannon with less PRR and Dodge then the Fighter and not enough Healing Amp to get over 300 with CSW so to actually make the Ranger playable he's going to need to give up more. But I would say Pure Rangers are in a good place compared to all other pure classes.
    That pretty much kills it right there.

    But . . . as I mentioned above the 12/6/2 BF really can't fit in Sniper Shot without gimping other stuff, the ranger can. You might be able to strike some balance in actual game play doing so.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That pretty much kills it right there.But . . . as I mentioned above the 12/6/2 BF really can't fit in Sniper Shot without gimping other stuff, the ranger can. You might be able to strike some balance in actual game play doing so.
    There's many ways to crack the defensive Egg.

    My particular newly TR'd Ranger 20 wannabe has 3 Paladin past lives, for a start. Not everyone is going to have them, admittedly, but on my character I will In terms of PRR, I think the Ranger will be close to the Kensai, 6pts off from my guesstimations. Will be carrying a bucket of Displacement clickies as well tho lol.

    And Healing? CSW is what, 3D6+6+CL (Max15), 31.5Avg Healing.

    Some Rough extras on that:
    24 Implement Spell Power
    134 Devotion Red Augment
    23 Heal Skill
    10 Wisdom
    60 Deepwood Sniper Innates / Increased Empathy / Versatile Empathy
    75 Empower Heal
    = 326 Devotion Spell Power

    100% Heal Base
    15% Paladin Past Lives
    10% Half-Elf
    20% Item
    10% Guild Ship
    = 168% Heal Amp

    = 225pt Cure Serious Wounds. *Shrug* That'll do me. As long as I've got SP, there's no harm in a follow up CMW to top it up some more if needed.

    Real areas of concern for me at the moment, defensively, are Dodge and only 10% Item-based Incorporeal.

    Edit: I'll most definitly be sporting a Seal of Avithoul on my Ranger, so with Exposing Strike (melee Sniper Shot) I'll be proccing lots of Deception which as you've already mentioned should help defensively ("Dont hit me! Hit the Rogue instead!") :P
    Last edited by Arlathen; 02-05-2014 at 06:01 PM.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Derp. All that MATH ™ and I still don't know the answer.
    Should we stop playing rangers or not ?
    Please advise.
    Didn't everyone stop playing Rangers already to pick up a Centered Kensai? Oh. Ok.

    There's hope for some of you yet. Except Troll, he's beyond help :P
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  6. #86
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    There's many ways to crack the defensive Egg.

    My particular newly TR'd Ranger 20 wannabe has 3 Paladin past lives, for a start. Not everyone is going to have them, admittedly, but on my character I will In terms of PRR, I think the Ranger will be close to the Kensai, 6pts off from my guesstimations. Will be carrying a bucket of Displacement clickies as well tho lol.

    And Healing? CSW is what, 3D6+6+CL (Max15), 31.5Avg Healing.

    Some Rough extras on that:
    24 Implement Spell Power
    134 Devotion Red Augment
    23 Heal Skill
    10 Wisdom
    60 Deepwood Sniper Innates / Increased Empathy / Versatile Empathy7
    5 Empower Heal
    = 326 Devotion Spell Power

    100% Heal Base
    15% Paladin Past Lives
    10% Half-Elf
    20% Item
    10% Guild Ship
    = 168% Heal Amp

    = 225pt Cure Serious Wounds. *Shrug* That'll do me. As long as I've got SP, there's no harm in a follow up CMW to top it up some more if needed.

    Real areas of concern for me at the moment, defensively, are Dodge and only 10% Item-based Incorporeal.

    Edit: I'll most definitly be sporting a Seal of Avithoul on my Ranger, so with Exposing Strike (melee Sniper Shot) I'll be proccing lots of Deception which as you've already mentioned should help defensively ("Dont hit me! Hit the Rogue instead!") :P
    If you slot that ring you will lose 20% Hamp or Ravagers and that's enough to fall behind the kensai in the math, hell slotting the devotion into a weapon will just shy.

    IMO in practice the Ranger wont be able to beat the centered kensai but he will be close enough to probably not matter much to anyone.

    We'll see we need real live tests at this point.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Found the Error in these numbers I had computed the Rangers base damage with the wrong numbers here is the corrected results.

    Ranger w/ FE
    DPS: 1083.60, 1300.32, 1413.39, 1696.07

    Ranger w/o FE
    DPS: 985.67, 1182.80, 1285.66, 1542.79
    Just a couple of gotchas I spotted:


    1. Still looks like your basing both builds in FotW? Can drop the comment about Primal Scream then


    2. Did you calculate Keen Edge in for the Kensai build? Your listing 15-18/x3 In the Critical Breakdown. Shouldn't that be 13-18/x3?


    3. There's no Rams Might in the Ranger Strength Calculation, only the Weapon Damage bonus is showing in the right places.


    4. Need to remove Strike with no Thought in the Ranger Doublestrike list.


    5. Ranger Build should really be 6D6 Sneak Attack Dice - 2D6 for Half-Elf, 4D6 for DWS.


    6. I would give both builds the opportunity of +13 Damage from Seal of Avithoul over Tharne's.


    7. I'd be tempted to change a Twist to Improved Power Attack instead of Critical Damage, since both builds are in FotW. It might be less DPS, but I think it would work out more. Choose on best case scenario for each build as people would only tailor it that way anyway.


    But really, I would prefer to base both builds in LD and see where the numbers leave the builds. I want to play around with a Ranger with Masters Blitz
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    IMO in practice the Ranger wont be able to beat the centered kensai but he will be close enough to probably not matter much to anyone.

    We'll see we need real live tests at this point.
    Agreed. I was originally asking if the 20 Ranger was just 'viable' for EEs or even 'Competitive' for EEs alongside Kensai's. Who wins out by a few percentage points doesn't actually matter that much too me.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  9. #89
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    Didn't everyone stop playing Rangers already to pick up a Centered Kensai? Oh. Ok.

    There's hope for some of you yet. Except Troll, he's beyond help :P
    I was just yanking your chain guys, doing fine on mine thanks
    And centered kenseis can go and ... away.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  10. #90
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    and the 18/1/1 main advantage is fixed in the next patch (zillion hastes boost from both Tempest and Kensai, sure the 12/6/2 could do it but it no way in hell can afford the AP to do so).
    We should start a petition to fix the fighter haste boost to 30s@tier 3 (which it says, but doesn't) - back to back haste boost activation in Fury

    Personally I already dropped ranger haste boost on live to see how it works.
    Picked up 40% sprint boost and also picked up 30% damage boost from DWS (which is practically my replacement for the missing haste boost).

    I probably won't even change back until the update. Sprint boost is so addictive.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
    Ghallanda - Ethrayne - Ethryne --- Omnipresence
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  11. #91
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    i miss my sprint boost very much. specially in places like abbot when you need that extra Run AWAY to get on an island or FoT kiting undead. I'll be not too terribly upset to get 'forced' to repurchase it. and the change does make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  12. #92
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    i miss my sprint boost very much. specially in places like abbot when you need that extra Run AWAY to get on an island or FoT kiting undead. I'll be not too terribly upset to get 'forced' to repurchase it. and the change does make sense.
    It wasn't something exclusive to ranger anyway. Any classsplit with 1 lvl of fighter can make use of double haste boost.
    You can even use the LD haste boost as secondary, if your class doesn't offer one.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
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  13. #93

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    To be perfectly honest I'm just happy Tempest got Haste boost in the first place. It maybe silly expensive compared to Kensai, but it does mean your not wanting for a Haste Boost until you get it in an Epic Destiny at 20+.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  14. #94
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    To be perfectly honest I'm just happy Tempest got Haste boost in the first place. It maybe silly expensive compared to Kensai, but it does mean your not wanting for a Haste Boost until you get it in an Epic Destiny at 20+.
    I don't know. In heroics I'd pick sprint boost over haste boost every time.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
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  15. #95
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    Someone should also compare 9druid/6monk/3ranger with full doublestrike and attack speed using wraps. I'm thinking it attacks faster than the ranger (not that this means higher dps necessarily).

    Something else to remember is that in addition to twf suffering when using cleaves and any single hand attack (like stunning blow), doublestrike suffers most of the same problems. I think twf is just better off in fotw.

  16. #96
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    Someone should also compare 9druid/6monk/3ranger with full doublestrike and attack speed using wraps.
    What would you do with the last two lvls?

  17. #97
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    Someone should also compare 9druid/6monk/3ranger with full doublestrike and attack speed using wraps. I'm thinking it attacks faster than the ranger (not that this means higher dps necessarily).

    Something else to remember is that in addition to twf suffering when using cleaves and any single hand attack (like stunning blow), doublestrike suffers most of the same problems. I think twf is just better off in fotw.
    There's no point in comparing that with the current "bug" that thing attacks faster than any other build period.

    But since numbers are fun.
    Pure Ranger 33%/35% DS 100% Off-hand = 5.96 ASP
    Wind Monk 38%/10% DS 100% Off-hand = 6.10 ASP
    Wolf 56%/10% DS 100% Off-Hand = 8.14 ASP
    Wolf 56%/10% DS 0% Off-Hand = 4.78 ASP

    The Druid may not win the DPS race (though it could but I'm not taking the time to figure it out) it with out question can beat the ASP.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    What would you do with the last two lvls?
    Not sure it matters, probably 2 more ranger or more likely 2 more druid.

    Should get 30% attack speed boost and lots od doublestrike.

  19. #99
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    Default Hlep???

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That pretty much kills it right there.

    But . . . as I mentioned above the 12/6/2 BF really can't fit in Sniper Shot without gimping other stuff, the ranger can. You might be able to strike some balance in actual game play doing so.


    Old player coming back after 2-3 years here with a level 20 human 18Ranger/1Fighter/1Rogue char. Was wondering if you might be willing to share your 18/1/1 build as I am completely lost with all the changes since I played last. I was setup as a str Khopesh TWF build.

  20. #100
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktaria View Post
    Old player coming back after 2-3 years here with a level 20 human 18Ranger/1Fighter/1Rogue char. Was wondering if you might be willing to share your 18/1/1 build as I am completely lost with all the changes since I played last. I was setup as a str Khopesh TWF build.
    See the Tempest Trapmonkey thread.

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