Six archers are tightly grouped up just going to town on you with arrows. You throw out a hypnotism (enchantment spell with will save and SR) for 10 SP, you don't have to heighten it because the point of it isn't to work, it's merely to lower their Epic Elite level will save by 3 in order to land the next spell in the prep process. Now you throw a crushing despair (enchantment spell with will save and SR) for 20 SP that will lower their will save by 5. Now you can pull out mind fog (enchantment spell with will save and SR), but you're going to need to heighten this because it does nothing but obstruct everyone's vision if it doesn't hit, so it's going to cost an additional 20 SP on top of probably at least 20 SP to cast, the wiki doesn't list the SP cost, so we'll just say 40.
Now we've got the mobs properly prepped so that they can be prepped. Let's say things have worked perfectly and we've been incredibly lucky and gotten through all the spell resistance, and nobody saved. So now we can unleash a Mass Hold Monster. This costs 50 SP, but at least we don't have to heighten it. Again, let's just assume everything worked beautifully and now all 6 archers are held. So after casting 4 spells costing 120 SP, we are now ready to use our 20 SP Epic Ability with a 30 second CD.
Even under the best of circumstances that scenario is ludicrous. Given the fact that every single one of those prep spells suffers from spell resistance, there is every possibility that every single one will be resisted. Given the fact that EE mobs saves are so high, although the first 8 reduction in will save from hypno/despair is a given (provided you penetrate their SR), after that it's totally a coin toss even if you are heavily invested in Enchantment.
Back in the real world mobs are spread out, it takes skill and timing to maneuver the enemy into a tight enough ball to effectively use an AoE, and the window of opportunity to get that AoE off is very small. If you've got to cast 4 prep spells costing 120 SP to reliably hit with a damage spell, you might as well just go Shiradi.
If you want to go on playing DC casters, you might want to look into wizards who find it easier to hold mobs (and prep them for Evocation spells). My gimpy halfling wizard flavour build with Evocation as main school has 62 enchantment DC, anyone who's serious about their DCs will run a sun elf with 3 more. Assuming a 70 will save, with only a Hypnotism debuff you will hold the vast majority of non-caster mobs for 60 SP, not to mention proper Enchanters who can spam 1 SP quickened Hypnotisms. These casters can then of course still use Energy Burst and Evocation spells.
That said, there's a build with 64 Evocation DC in the sorcerer forum whose spells will land 2/3 of the time assuming a 70 Reflex save (your estimate for EE GH), that's not bad?
I won't deny the fact shiradi is overpowered but we who don't like to pew pew still have other options.
(Sorry for kind of derailing this discussion, but this statement piqued my interest.)
EDIT: Or are you referring to the +3 to spell pen they get from their enhancement tree?
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Originally Posted by Chilldude
I haven't actually played a Sun Elf so I'm not sure what bonus type it is but I assume it stacks.
I think doing half or no damage at all 1/3 of the time is indeed very bad, because as I've already stated, it's not a matter of being unable to DPS in EE, it's a matter of being unable to sustain an effective level of DPS because you are forced to become extremely inefficient with your casting to maintain the level of DPS required.
I would imagine any melee player would find missing 1/3 of the time absolutely unacceptable, and their melee swings are free and limitless. If there were epic abilities to compensate for this that would be one thing, but epic abilities do very little to increase the DPS of a caster over that which they were already able to attain in heroic levels. Again, this was all already explained in detail, but you mistakenly think you already know everything about casting so you didn't bother to read it. Therefore, in EE a caster actually operates at a net loss in DPS over the DPS they were able to attain way back in heroic levels. So your point is that it is OK for a class to go backwards in DPS in content where DPS is needed the most?
62 enchant works awesome in Stormhorns, you can get 5 or so higher if you want.
So does 65 + necro or divine evo basically anywhere except Stormhorns.
55 or more evo on sorc will suffice, 60 is great.
There is no secret here, make no compromise and get your DCs and game up ( that's NOT AN EASY PATH ) or complain.
Search Youtube for "ddo" last month or something if there is noone that you know playing a decent caster if you have to.
I am sorry if you took that as an insult, I am a **** and sarcastic often but I meant it as genuine suggestion, I learned tons of stuff watching other people play.
From what I've seen, held/stunned/tripped/commanded monsters can still evade. (A whole other kettle of fish that bugs me, but.. whatever..)
Has this changed?
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Originally Posted by Chilldude
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Mass hold costs 50 SP. There's no way around that. So if you have to mass hold before you can energy burst, you are spending 70 SP on every EB, and that's if you can stick a hold without debuffing. If some people find that acceptable, good for them, however I find it ridiculous.
Furthermore, an enchantment focused wizard has nothing what so ever to do with an evocation focused sorcerer. If some wizard out there get's their enchantment DC up to mid 60's and they don't mind being carried through content by their melee friends, that's great for them. They get to throw an EB every now and again and really feel like they are contributing, plus I'm sure the melee love them for all the mass holds. I'm not playing a wizard. I don't have and can't get a mid 60's enchantment DC, but that's OK because I've got no interest in prepping mobs for melee and occasionally getting off an energy burst.
I play a sorcerer. Top of the food chain. I make mere mortals tremble in fear of my arcane might. You stand there admitting for all to bear witness that you slink away from your arcane heritage and toss around balls of force fishing for a Shiradi proc, why do you not hang your head in shame? How dare you presume to speak in the presence of a true arcane? How ironic you speak of an arcane prowess you yourself are not able to achieve, instead you wallow in the muck and mutter the random ramblings of rangers relying on wishes where once you demanded the heavens part to unleash the fury of the nether upon your foe.
A sorcerer need not cull the enemy in order to battle only the weak and feeble among them. A sorcerer takes all comers, and helps them find the glorious death they seek.
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