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  1. #1
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    Default Please Stop with the Lazy, Poor Quest Design

    So I'm bored, and figured I'd finally check out the Shadow Over Wheloon quests. And while the enemies are poorly designed and over-powered (but it is the Realms, so that's to be expected), this isn't about that. This isn't even about boss immunities (which are stupid; design better encounters and you wouldn't need those).

    No, this is about the persistent inclusion of Bad Guy Scenes. If I want to watch bad guys chew scenery, I'll watch Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (not Robin Hood: Men in Tights). If I'm playing a game, I don't want to have to wait around listening to your poorly written dialogue while being unable to attack.

    Bad guy torturing the prisoner? Then sneaking up behind him and landing an axe in his skull should be an option. Not standing around waiting while he's protected by God Mode. What's even worse is when it's two or more bad guys talking, and we have to wait on them, twiddling our thumbs (or often, literally dancing). And then they are all like "Oi! What's that going on over there?" Nothing, just us home invaders that have been standing here during your entire conversation. If you want us to "overhear" their conversations, then someone should have to sneak up and listen. That's not hard to figure out.

    And to be fair, this isn't just a problem in the newer quests. It goes back all the way to the beginning. It's so amazingly stupid that, in Information is Key, you can't shoot or kill the guy who opens the cages to the Iron Defenders, even if you can move faster than he can. One of the absolute worst offenders, however, is Beyond the Rift, where you have to follow a group of Drow all the way to the penultimate fight. You cannot attack them, you cannot slow them down, you can't even chat with them.

    It's ridiculous. And it needs to stop. These are the hallmarks of a hack who is not interested in designing a fun game adventure, but rather in telling his precious story. There's a name for those people: fan-fic authors.

    Stupid invulnerable enemies, forced dialogue, rules changes to facilitate story, these are ALL examples of design worthy only of a 10 year old running his first game. NOT people designing content for a professional MMORPG that they hope to have people pay for.

    Please fix this problem. Thank you.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
    So I'm bored, and figured I'd finally check out the Shadow Over Wheloon quests. And while the enemies are poorly designed and over-powered (but it is the Realms, so that's to be expected), this isn't about that. This isn't even about boss immunities (which are stupid; design better encounters and you wouldn't need those).

    No, this is about the persistent inclusion of Bad Guy Scenes. If I want to watch bad guys chew scenery, I'll watch Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (not Robin Hood: Men in Tights). If I'm playing a game, I don't want to have to wait around listening to your poorly written dialogue while being unable to attack.

    Bad guy torturing the prisoner? Then sneaking up behind him and landing an axe in his skull should be an option. Not standing around waiting while he's protected by God Mode. What's even worse is when it's two or more bad guys talking, and we have to wait on them, twiddling our thumbs (or often, literally dancing). And then they are all like "Oi! What's that going on over there?" Nothing, just us home invaders that have been standing here during your entire conversation. If you want us to "overhear" their conversations, then someone should have to sneak up and listen. That's not hard to figure out.

    And to be fair, this isn't just a problem in the newer quests. It goes back all the way to the beginning. It's so amazingly stupid that, in Information is Key, you can't shoot or kill the guy who opens the cages to the Iron Defenders, even if you can move faster than he can. One of the absolute worst offenders, however, is Beyond the Rift, where you have to follow a group of Drow all the way to the penultimate fight. You cannot attack them, you cannot slow them down, you can't even chat with them.

    It's ridiculous. And it needs to stop. These are the hallmarks of a hack who is not interested in designing a fun game adventure, but rather in telling his precious story. There's a name for those people: fan-fic authors.

    Stupid invulnerable enemies, forced dialogue, rules changes to facilitate story, these are ALL examples of design worthy only of a 10 year old running his first game. NOT people designing content for a professional MMORPG that they hope to have people pay for.

    Please fix this problem. Thank you.
    So what do you say to people that likes these things? Should they go find another game while this game evolves to what you like or should you just leave and find what fits best for you?

  3. #3
    Community Member Jingwei's Avatar
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    I would say to refer to the quests in DDO that do it right:

    In dreaming dark, there's a guy who tries talking to you (an inspired assassin, or somesuch) he's attackable while he's talking. If you want, you can stand there and listen to him. If you want, you can just split his skull open with and axe because you don't want to hear anything a purple brain parasite has to say.

    In diplomatic impunity:

    The general tells his minions to stop attacking because he wants to try to bribe you. You can spend time interacting with him, or you can just ctrl-1 through the dialog and move right over to the fight scene.

    In Framework:

    You overhear the boss conversation, but at least there's usually the excuse of a gate in the way to explain why you aren't bathing in their blood already...

    In Missing:

    If you care about the exposition, read the newspaper.

    --------

    If we have to listen to the boss talk for a while, give us a good reason too, like our warforged titans are coming up behind him, and we're letting him monologue while they move into position to use their drill hands on his talky self.

  4. #4
    Community Member PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Okay, lemme get this straight. You are talking about a game FULL of Star Wars, LotR, and pop music references and you're complaining about the campy boss monologues? A game where raid weapons are named after My Little Pony characters. A game where you make airships out of furniture and watch misshapen horrors participate in fashion shows. A game where you deck your totally pointless pets out with top hats and sparkle glitter.

    EMBRACE THE CAMP. This is not the freakin' opera.

    Oh, and just so you know--adding these elements into quests is not "lazy" quest design. It is FAR more difficult to get that stuff working properly than it would be just to slap a standard mob with standard mob AI in that spot. Heck, even getting the spawns to work properly in a quest like Kobold Assault can be an exercise in extreme frustration.

    Could it be improved? Sure. But so could everything in the entire universe. The nice thing about window-dressing is that you can ignore it. Boss yammering on too long? Go get a drink. Stretch. Break some stuff. And enjoy the times that the devs hard work makes you laugh, even if it was unintentional.
    Last edited by PsychoBlonde; 02-02-2014 at 11:22 AM.
    I edited a book!

    Thelanis player: Arekkeh, Kimberlei (heroic completionist), Lehren (heroic/epic completionist), Natheme, Terpsikhore

  5. #5
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    I don't mind the dialogue as much as the mobs that all spawn at the same time and either take you straight to DAR or cause so much lag that you stare at a frozen screen for thirty seconds and when it unfreezes you are dead.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

  6. #6
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
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    +1 to the OP

    this emo fan-fic stuff neds to stop.
    give us the option to skip it

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