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  1. #21
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Ch..ch...ch..challenge accepted!

    Bladeforged
    14 Rogue / 3 Monk / 3 Druid

    Feats: Basically exactly the same but you "COULD" get all the THF feats instead of Toughness, Epic Toughness and Completionist (it becomes 'not worth it' when Cha isn't being leveraged).

    Enhancements:
    21 Bladeforged (no racial seeker/addy enhancement)
    13 Druid NW (Max Fatal Harrier, the +6 crit damage and doublestrike action boost)
    3 Monk HeS (Same as you)
    12 Monk NiS (Up to Poison Sting making sure to get 'Falco-Pawch' ie: Fist of Iron along the way)
    31 Rogue TA (same as you)

    Why COULD this be better?

    Fatal Harrier can give +10% more attack speed than Zeus build can achieve - this means about 17 more attacks per minute with 70 doublestrike.

    With Rams Hands, Druid crit damage and the ability to have a higher base strength (cha becomes a dump stat) it means that the build only does 2 less damage per crit (before mods), 8 less per normal hit.

    Ninja Poison + Falco-Pawch add a ton of damage and a small benefit of +3d6 sneak attacks.

    You get improved evasion

    *Optional* THF feats add a whole bunch of glancing damage. While not 'as good' because staffs don't get Cleave glancing blows, it's still a bunch of extra damage when you do auto-attack. From what I saw, this happened pretty often.

    Why COULD this be worse?

    You lose 25 PRR.
    You lose Addie weapon buffs
    You lose a LOT of saves
    If you can't get Fatal Harrier up, it hurts (although if you can keep Blitz you should be able to keep Harrier)
    You can't doublestrike + haste buff yourself at the same time (but oh man if you could)

    *Optional* If you go for THF you lose around 80-90 hp.


    That's my best shot at beating it.

    PS: I will NEVER be able to make this build. I'm new, have no gear, don't own Bladeforged and don't have time to farm a million lives. So, if anyone is inclined, that's my best offer for a DPS toon that can do 'better' than Zeus in this speed challenge
    There is no point to beat the build in theory, i have delivered, now its up to the challengers to do the same.
    EE DA in <25 min is to beat, not in theory but on live server
    Haek N' Slay (©ompletionist Juggernaut / Zeus Life 61 of 61)My Toon is better than your toon.Mitis Mors - Thelanis

  2. #22
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Very nice! If nothing else, I'm pleased to see someone else still building for Wind / doublestrike bonuses. I was afraid Earth monks had completely stolen our thunder, if you'll pardon the pun.
    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    25 Prr is going to be like 15% dam red so shadow fade is almost as good plus you get monk 6 benefits. Can you not afford the turn undead twist if you go pal 2?
    Even if he gives up defensive stance, he needs at least pal 4 for access to Quicken. I was thinking rog 8 / pal 6 / monk 6: you give up Opportunist & knockdown immunity and a bunch of SA; but gain Shadow Fade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Bladeforged
    14 Rogue / 3 Monk / 3 Druid
    Setting aside the fact this costs you two LRs and an alignment swap to get rid of pally lvl, the biggest loss is this:
    You lose 25 PRR.
    You lose a LOT of saves
    That's a big chunk of this build's survivability; since this is not a Earth monk, dropping defensive stance would cost almost half the PRR.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  3. #23
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    There is no point to beat the build in theory, i have delivered, now its up to the challengers to do the same.
    EE DA in <25 min is to beat, not in theory but on live server
    Oh I get that, but I'm simply acknowledging my lack of ability to do so. If anyone with the means cared to try - I THINK that build 'could' do it.
    Unfortunately, I don't have the 4-6 years of playing required to do so.

    It's why I wrote that acknowledgement at the end. I'm a man ideas but no means! A sad state to be in indeed.


    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    That's a big chunk of this build's survivability; since this is not a Earth monk, dropping defensive stance would cost almost half the PRR.
    Absolutely. It's why I specified that it was an answer to this speed challenge and NOT a claim to be a better 'build.'

    Personally, I think going 15 Monk / 3 Druid / 2 Rogue is a better over all build (compared to the one I put up) because it groups better, kites when in trouble and can actually contribute DPS even in groups with Monkchers / Shardi as it's fast enough to reach mobs before they die.

    That said, the monk build would never beat Zeus in this speed challenge, which I acknowledge

    Setting aside the fact this costs you two LRs and an alignment swap to get rid of pally lvl, the biggest loss is this:
    You 'could' swap in Half-Orc or Warforged for similiar dps numbers but that wouldn't be nearly as optimized - which would be a silly thing to do in a speed challenge.
    Last edited by Xianio; 02-04-2014 at 11:18 AM.

  4. #24
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    It's why I specified that it was an answer to this speed challenge and NOT a claim to be a better 'build.'
    The thing about in-game speed challenges: mobs hit back hard in EEs. I honestly can't tell if your build concept would have better DPS, but it definitely has worse defenses (apart from Imp Evasion), which makes surviving EEs that much more challenging. Remember: no matter how well equipped, the DPS of every soulstone is zero.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
    Other build threads: Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  5. #25
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    Of course, but that's the speed challenge game.

    How many defenses can you trade for better offense, and still live :P

  6. #26
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    Thats the fun part about actually making builds and developing them, the constant improvement and finally the form where you cannot improve it in total anymore. Sure there are ways to deal more damage or to get less, but currently the build it is in a state where i can play any Quest in the game without fear for my live and still outdps basically any other melee. Actually not only melees, a well played blitz out damages anything, even fotm monkchers

    For EE melees need a good balance of offense and defense, but when in doubt rather add more defense than more offense!

    Haek
    Haek N' Slay (©ompletionist Juggernaut / Zeus Life 61 of 61)My Toon is better than your toon.Mitis Mors - Thelanis

  7. #27
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    Haek how much value do you feel the 10% fort puncture adds? It's the one thing your build mentions that I don't know how to judge value on.

    Would you say it made a noticeable difference over all?

  8. #28
    Community Member Zotze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post

    Heres a video of it soloing EE DA:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmclwQHTfn4

    Haek
    Damn, you used music, that is blocked in germany, so we cant watch it
    - Proud Officer of Decameron / Cannith -

    Zangesh qui Clades (Lvl.28), Fire Shiradi Sorc - Bladeforged 14 Sorc / 4 FvS / 2 Pala
    (3xPL Wizard, 1xPL Sorcerer | Epic Completionist 3x Colors of the Queen, 3x Fast Healing, 3x Engery Criticals, 3x Brace, 3x Skill Mastery, 3x Doubleshot, 1xDoublestrike)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Laladi (Lvl.28), Khopesh+Shield Pally - PDK 20 Pala
    (Heroic Completionist | 3x Colors of the Queen, 3x Doublestrike, 2x Enchant Weapon, 2x Power over Life and Death)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Zindragh Zornbinder (Lvl.28), Shuricannon - Drow 20 Monk
    (1xPL Fighter, 3xPL Monk, 1xPL Rouge | 1x Colors of the Queen, 2x Doublestrike, 1x Doubleshot)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Aibus (Lvl.28) Tank - Purple Dragon Knight 13 FvS / 6 Pala / 1 Fig
    (1xPL Monk, 3xPL Pala)

    - man nannte ihn Zangesh qui Clades -

  9. #29
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zotze View Post
    Damn, you used music, that is blocked in germany, so we cant watch it
    Stealthy Addon for Firefox, youre welcome
    Haek N' Slay (©ompletionist Juggernaut / Zeus Life 61 of 61)My Toon is better than your toon.Mitis Mors - Thelanis

  10. #30
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    Updated OP with Character Planner Version.
    Haek N' Slay (©ompletionist Juggernaut / Zeus Life 61 of 61)My Toon is better than your toon.Mitis Mors - Thelanis

  11. #31
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Haek how much value do you feel the 10% fort puncture adds? It's the one thing your build mentions that I don't know how to judge value on.

    Would you say it made a noticeable difference over all?
    Well its sets me on 45% instead of 35% Armor Piercing, which is very nice with a High Crit profile weapon like Sireth. It also gives 3% stacking Doublestrike so i value it way over Imp Evasion, never needed that anyway

    When fighting Undead or other High Fort mobs i very much notice not having Grims precision, so i guess i would do the same with not having Opportunist. When it comes to Fort bypass, every bit counts
    Haek N' Slay (©ompletionist Juggernaut / Zeus Life 61 of 61)My Toon is better than your toon.Mitis Mors - Thelanis

  12. #32
    Community Member Zotze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    Stealthy Addon for Firefox, youre welcome
    not possible to use/install on night duty on my works pc ^^
    - Proud Officer of Decameron / Cannith -

    Zangesh qui Clades (Lvl.28), Fire Shiradi Sorc - Bladeforged 14 Sorc / 4 FvS / 2 Pala
    (3xPL Wizard, 1xPL Sorcerer | Epic Completionist 3x Colors of the Queen, 3x Fast Healing, 3x Engery Criticals, 3x Brace, 3x Skill Mastery, 3x Doubleshot, 1xDoublestrike)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Laladi (Lvl.28), Khopesh+Shield Pally - PDK 20 Pala
    (Heroic Completionist | 3x Colors of the Queen, 3x Doublestrike, 2x Enchant Weapon, 2x Power over Life and Death)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Zindragh Zornbinder (Lvl.28), Shuricannon - Drow 20 Monk
    (1xPL Fighter, 3xPL Monk, 1xPL Rouge | 1x Colors of the Queen, 2x Doublestrike, 1x Doubleshot)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Aibus (Lvl.28) Tank - Purple Dragon Knight 13 FvS / 6 Pala / 1 Fig
    (1xPL Monk, 3xPL Pala)

    - man nannte ihn Zangesh qui Clades -

  13. #33
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    When fighting Undead or other High Fort mobs i very much notice not having Grims precision, so i guess i would do the same with not having Opportunist. When it comes to Fort bypass, every bit counts
    I agree with this just did a ranger life with precision and PA and the only time I used PA was when I was blitzing, I was so hooked on fort bypass that I used a heroic blackscale docent until level 25!

    The quests that have most xp per min from 20 to 28 have a lot of high fort mobs.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  14. #34
    Community Member alphawolf3's Avatar
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    fellow jugg here. amazing looking new build. thinking i might wanna try this out for my next life. any chance we could get a basic gear list? very well done as usual. thanks

  15. #35
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    Why do you need negotiator? May be Magical Training would be better?

  16. #36
    Community Member Lurzifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarleg View Post
    Why do you need negotiator? May be Magical Training would be better?
    As written in OP i am switching negotiator for completionist thanks to Fred, cant take those feats otherwise
    Haek N' Slay (©ompletionist Juggernaut / Zeus Life 61 of 61)My Toon is better than your toon.Mitis Mors - Thelanis

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    As written in OP i am switching negotiator for completionist thanks to Fred, cant take those feats otherwise
    Oh... i'm really think that you switch from complitionist to negotiator

  18. #38
    Community Member kuro_zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurzifer View Post
    As written in OP i am switching negotiator for completionist thanks to Fred, cant take those feats otherwise
    This is awesome and helps with some of my planned builds greatly.

    Awesome build, although quick question concerning Quicken for the SLA. Granted I only did rudimentary testing, but I didn't notice any casting speed difference between a quickened and non-quickened Recon SLA and no concentration checks when using SLAs. I would like to know if your experience with it is different as freeing a feat would be nice.
    Officer of Disciples of the Apocalypse on Sarlona
    Himawari Life 3 - 1 FvS | Svipul Life 3 - 1 FvS | Chikaze Life 2 - 2 PAL / 2 MNK / 4 FVS
    Completionist Project: GLaDOS - Life 14 of ??: Bladeforged 'Zeus' - Started 22/02/14

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuro_zero View Post
    This is awesome and helps with some of my planned builds greatly.

    Awesome build, although quick question concerning Quicken for the SLA. Granted I only did rudimentary testing, but I didn't notice any casting speed difference between a quickened and non-quickened Recon SLA and no concentration checks when using SLAs. I would like to know if your experience with it is different as freeing a feat would be nice.
    Strange, just tested, quicken SLA casts instantly, but without around 1 second, but no concentration check i think.

  20. #40
    Community Member kuro_zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarleg View Post
    Strange, just tested, quicken SLA casts instantly, but without around 1 second, but no concentration check i think.
    Yea, I retested and it is slightly faster with quicken but nowhere near instantaneous like a sorc quickened recon. I'm not even sure if its faster than a wiz/arti quickened recon.

    For EE the delay could be the difference between life and soul stone. Grinding put PLs for completionist so my epic expierences are mostly EH.

    Would also be interested in a gear list :-) With so many rogue levels assuming a source of imp. deception somewhere?
    Officer of Disciples of the Apocalypse on Sarlona
    Himawari Life 3 - 1 FvS | Svipul Life 3 - 1 FvS | Chikaze Life 2 - 2 PAL / 2 MNK / 4 FVS
    Completionist Project: GLaDOS - Life 14 of ??: Bladeforged 'Zeus' - Started 22/02/14

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