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  1. #1
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    Default Installing Akamai Netsession Interface is a step too far

    The new Lamannia client is installing Akamai netsession interface. The old client didn't need it so why does the new?

    Installing it is rude and presumptuous. If it is a peer to peer downloader that runs in the background if I'm not playing the game (it auto runs on Windows login) and so might be technically illegal under UK law. You might want your lawyer suits to have a lock at the UK's Misuse of Computers Act, as you didn't ask my permission to install or run it outside the game client.

    I only noticed it because my firewall reported it was blocking it.

    I am seriously displeased with this for the following reasons:

    1) It didn't ask me. How it did this and bypassed UAC is very disturbing.

    2) It auto-runs as soon as I log into Windows. There are already too many apps taking this liberty with my computer and I hate everyone of those companies for doing so. Do I add you to that list of despised corporate entities. You might think its only a little app, but all the little apps add up to a big lot of resources consumed for purposes not my own. I'd disable yours like I have all the others, but I suspect the client won't work if I do. You should be using an in process library that only runs when the client runs for this sort of thing, or a child process that disappears when the client does. This separate always running process or two is not acceptable.

    3) This downloader has peer to peer capability. I'm guessing that is what my firewall is blocking. I have no idea if you've configured it to actually do that, but I would like to point out that if you successfully manage to use my upload bandwidth in a way that provides no direct benefit to me, without my permission, I will regard it as theft (see UK law). Attempting to do so and not succeeding is attempted theft.

    4) The Akamai logs suggest you might also be using this to auto-collect various debug logs from my computer. Is this true? If so what are you collection and why?

  2. #2
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    Good questions.

  3. #3
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engoril View Post
    The new Lamannia client is installing Akamai netsession interface. The old client didn't need it so why does the new?

    Installing it is rude and presumptuous. If it is a peer to peer downloader that runs in the background if I'm not playing the game (it auto runs on Windows login) and so might be technically illegal under UK law. You might want your lawyer suits to have a lock at the UK's Misuse of Computers Act, as you didn't ask my permission to install or run it outside the game client.

    I only noticed it because my firewall reported it was blocking it.

    I am seriously displeased with this for the following reasons:

    1) It didn't ask me. How it did this and bypassed UAC is very disturbing.

    2) It auto-runs as soon as I log into Windows. There are already too many apps taking this liberty with my computer and I hate everyone of those companies for doing so. Do I add you to that list of despised corporate entities. You might think its only a little app, but all the little apps add up to a big lot of resources consumed for purposes not my own. I'd disable yours like I have all the others, but I suspect the client won't work if I do. You should be using an in process library that only runs when the client runs for this sort of thing, or a child process that disappears when the client does. This separate always running process or two is not acceptable.

    3) This downloader has peer to peer capability. I'm guessing that is what my firewall is blocking. I have no idea if you've configured it to actually do that, but I would like to point out that if you successfully manage to use my upload bandwidth in a way that provides no direct benefit to me, without my permission, I will regard it as theft (see UK law). Attempting to do so and not succeeding is attempted theft.

    4) The Akamai logs suggest you might also be using this to auto-collect various debug logs from my computer. Is this true? If so what are you collection and why?
    The old one was installing Pando Media Booster ( also a Peer to peer thingie ) behind your back.
    the trick that was used then was to let it download DDO and then disable it ASAP, and uninstall it.
    It is not needed for game update.

    Awesomiumprocess.exe ( the in game webbrowser used for DDO store ) is also installed and run separately ( run 7 times )... and it's also a Third party software.

    1) It's easy, since you already authorized through UAC the install software to install DDO... it's just forking a new install from there with admin right.
    2) You can disable it see above, we all did that for Pando ( and even uninstalled it, since it was a separate install )
    3) See 2) in my side of the Chunnel the upload bandwidth for DSL line is not big enough to share it with some Peer to Peer for anything, so Disable ( or uninstalled ) it goes.
    4) You don't want to know, trust me, you really don't want to know... ( and talking about some of the things the client do is permaban worthy... there's other places to do that where it's safer )
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  4. #4
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    It bypasses UAC because it's digitally signed to say "it's safe".

    Lamannia wouldn't update unless it was installed, so I allowed it to install.

    Then promptly uninstalled and it gave me dire warnings about not being able to get future updates. Oh noes.

  5. #5
    Community Member Aliss7's Avatar
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    So akamai net is replacing pando media booster?

    There's not much you can do about the stupidium processes as that's the web browser component of ddo. Killing them after starting the game will cause the client to crash as soon as you try to access the store.

  6. #6
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    Pando was only needed for the initial clean install of DDO. You could then remove it and it never came back. The client would do its own updates quite happily without it installed. Yes, I too uninstalled it.

    Akamai is different. It comes back. If you uninstall it, it reinstalls next time you run the lamannia client.

    I've yet to try using msconfig to disable it auto-starting. My experience with other apps like this is they eventually manage to create a new duplicate auto-run entry in the registry to bypass my desires.

  7. #7
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    Meh. Don't think I'll go to Llama-land, then. I don't like stuff being installed without my knowledge.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Meh. Don't think I'll go to Llama-land, then. I don't like stuff being installed without my knowledge.
    Will be to live soon enough.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsE View Post
    It bypasses UAC because it's digitally signed to say "it's safe".

    Lamannia wouldn't update unless it was installed, so I allowed it to install.

    Then promptly uninstalled and it gave me dire warnings about not being able to get future updates. Oh noes.
    Signing an app does not bypass UAC. I have UAC set quite high, and most apps it prompts for are signed. The signing is visible in the UAC pop-up.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Awesomiumprocess.exe ( the in game webbrowser used for DDO store ) is also installed and run separately ( run 7 times )... and it's also a Third party software.
    Awesommian is slightly different. It is installed like the other executables in the same directory that the client and other Turbine executable installs. It is part of the DDO install and does not have its own entry in my computers list of installed programs. It runs as a child process of the client, and while I might dislike how this works, it is in my view the correct way for processes like this to run.

    Akamai installs into my appdata/local folder and has its own entry in the list of installed programs. If something gets into that list or add anything new to Windows registry, without UAC triggering then I'd like to know how. Either its a flaw in Windows or its a back door that Microsoft has given them. Microsoft also uses Akamai, and it is not inconceivable they might have told them how. There is a separate Akamai download manager you might find installed as an IE add-in if you go looking for it.

  11. #11
    Hero Phoenix-daBard's Avatar
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    Akamai is pretty harmless and in the past has had the default configuration set to no uploads. When I get home tonight I'll look at my test machine and see what Turbine's installation of the downloader is set to.

    http://www.akamai.com/html/solutions/client_faq.html

    FWIW-I've had this installed by Adobe and a few others in the past. It is pretty harmless and easily disabled.

  12. #12
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    I have this on my normal client. when I control alt delet it shows up as something else there is like 5 of them and when you hit properties its this Akomi thing. so for the hell of it I hit stop process on all of them and the game still played so that's what I do. not sure what it is tho
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosbeak07 View Post
    Will be to live soon enough.
    Meh. Well, so will ESO.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  14. #14
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsE View Post
    It bypasses UAC because it's digitally signed to say "it's safe".

    Lamannia wouldn't update unless it was installed, so I allowed it to install.

    Then promptly uninstalled and it gave me dire warnings about not being able to get future updates. Oh noes.
    Well, I discovered it with my L-Space update. I did not allow it to go through my firewall since it asked me to update the rules.
    So far L-Space Client is installing fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliss7 View Post
    So akamai net is replacing pando media booster?

    There's not much you can do about the stupidium processes as that's the web browser component of ddo. Killing them after starting the game will cause the client to crash as soon as you try to access the store.
    Seems to be more than that.

    anyway, it's tucked in HK_CU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Ru n

    It's going to be soooo dead.

    Killing the processes doesn't impact L-Space updating.
    I've removed the Registry entry and I'll let you know.

    Still it's a really bad move from Turbine. But after Awesomecrap.exe I didn't expect more from them sadly. And you can kill it ( or make it so it can't be launched ) you just can't access the Store and the broken Bug Reporting Tool.


    Quote Originally Posted by Engoril View Post
    Awesommian is slightly different. It is installed like the other executables in the same directory that the client and other Turbine executable installs. It is part of the DDO install and does not have its own entry in my computers list of installed programs. It runs as a child process of the client, and while I might dislike how this works, it is in my view the correct way for processes like this to run.

    Akamai installs into my appdata/local folder and has its own entry in the list of installed programs. If something gets into that list or add anything new to Windows registry, without UAC triggering then I'd like to know how. Either its a flaw in Windows or its a back door that Microsoft has given them. Microsoft also uses Akamai, and it is not inconceivable they might have told them how. There is a separate Akamai download manager you might find installed as an IE add-in if you go looking for it.
    It is known that there shouldn't be more than one awesomecrap process running, that's what the guys that made it say. So Turbine has a problem with it. Also it is a known fact that it is needed as a separate CPU hog only because the guys in webdesign weren't able to make short URLs for the Store and that long URL might crash the embeded version we used for years.

    Anyway Peer to Peer softwares is a big No No on my computer and are killed on sight. This one will make no exception.

    Edit :

    The beast reinstall itself ( and rewrite the registry key, and relaunch it's processes ) when you start the launcher again.
    Time for me to explore pylotro.
    Last edited by Flavilandile; 01-24-2014 at 05:59 PM.
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  15. #15
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Hey guys, you're going to have to start paying me if you want to use my internets for p2p stuff.

    Edit: I guess that sounds a bit paranoid. But I do want assurances that the "option" to upload automagically won't be set to "on" by default without warning.
    Last edited by CheeseMilk; 01-24-2014 at 05:54 PM. Reason: /tinfoil off

  16. #16
    Community Member merridyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post

    It is known that there shouldn't be more than one awesomecrap process running, that's what the guys that made it say. So Turbine has a problem with it. Also it is a known fact that it is needed as a separate CPU hog only because the guys in webdesign weren't able to make short URLs for the Store and that long URL might crash the embeded version we used for years.
    .
    I have used awesomium, it is supposed to have more than one process, if you read that somewhere then you were reading some old information. Awesomium is a wrapper around Chrome. Try this:

    Open Chrome.
    Create a few tabs.
    Open task manager.
    Count the number of chrome processes.
    Should be equal to the number of tabs plus 2 or 3.

    Awesomium is working correctly, stop spreading so much disinformation about things you have no clue about.

  17. #17
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merridyan View Post
    I have used awesomium, it is supposed to have more than one process, if you read that somewhere then you were reading some old information. Awesomium is a wrapper around Chrome. Try this:

    Open Chrome.
    Create a few tabs.
    Open task manager.
    Count the number of chrome processes.
    Should be equal to the number of tabs plus 2 or 3.

    Awesomium is working correctly, stop spreading so much disinformation about things you have no clue about.
    Awesomium is NOT working correctly, how about you stop spreading misinformation. I provided proof that awesomium was spiking CPU usage very high every few seconds. So even though average CPU usage is low, it is extremely detrimental, especially for people who are sensitive to stutter (the reason it was detected in the first place) or people with lower end machines.

    The loading time with and without awesomium is also statistically significant, but to be fair that may be WAI. The CPU spike is clearly not WAI though.

  18. #18
    Hero Phoenix-daBard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix-daBard View Post
    Akamai is pretty harmless and in the past has had the default configuration set to no uploads. When I get home tonight I'll look at my test machine and see what Turbine's installation of the downloader is set to.

    http://www.akamai.com/html/solutions/client_faq.html

    FWIW-I've had this installed by Adobe and a few others in the past. It is pretty harmless and easily disabled.
    I just checked and the install that came with the Lamannia client had uploads disabled by default per the FAQ in the link above.


    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseMilk View Post
    Hey guys, you're going to have to start paying me if you want to use my internets for p2p stuff.

    Edit: I guess that sounds a bit paranoid. But I do want assurances that the "option" to upload automagically won't be set to "on" by default without warning.
    I believe that is against Akamai terms of service. The end user has to authorize uploads for them to be enabled.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix-daBard View Post
    I believe that is against Akamai terms of service. The end user has to authorize uploads for them to be enabled.
    After Offerwall, I wouldn't be so sure about what Turbine would or would not do.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  20. #20
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    After thinking about it, I suggest we all write bug reports about this software and how it installs itself.

    If they are flooded under bug reports about it maybe they will understand that it's a Bad Idea.
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