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  1. #1
    Senior Developer Piloto's Avatar
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    Default Update on New Divine Epic Destiny

    Thanks everyone for your interest and input on last month’s post on the new Divine Epic Destiny. Based on your feedback, we’ve made some changes to our design, and we’d like to share with you where things are headed for this new destiny.

    Some of the key suggestions we gathered so far from last month’s thread:
    1. Having the new destiny be melee centric to the exclusion of other niches like spellcasting may be undesirable.
    2. Including a boost to Divine Spell DCs would be great.
    3. Making some changes and improvements to Unyielding Sentinel and Exalted Angel would be most welcome.

    In addition to the above suggestions, another idea that many seemed to like was this:
    4. Substantially reworking the two existing divine destinies to allow for the new destiny to be a pure offensive divine caster.

    I’ll speak to number 4 first. This idea has some merit, but… it would require a lot of time and, more importantly, a lot more time than we actually have to work on destinies for the near and midterm future. We’ve got a full schedule of other improvements, and a major rework of multiple destinies is too big a task to fit in. So instead of doing this, we’re going to tackle the other suggestions on the above list. By acting on these, we think we should be able to address some of the concerns that made people suggest number 4, because there is some good overlap between them.

    To address points 1 and 2 above, we will likely be making the new destiny fit a more hybrid melee/spellcaster role, a little like warpriest. This doesn’t mean it will be watered down and ineffective at both. Rather, it will have a strong mix of viable options for melees as well as caster hybrids. The new destiny will be strong in melee and be fun for melee oriented characters to play, but it will also have some key spell casting abilities and enhancements that will be of interest to divine casters, such as a significant boost to divine casting DCs and some strong spell-like abilities.

    In order to address point 3, we’d also like to make a set of changes to the other two divine epic destinies to adjust their roles and amplify their power level. While this will definitely amount to less than a complete reworking of these trees, we hope to be able to go through the trees and make several changes for the better. Some of these will include giving more melee potency to the Unyielding Sentinel, and giving more healing emphasis and general spell efficacy to the Exalted Angel.

    As we get closer to filling out the new destiny’s tree, we’ll be looking at this thread (as well as back through the 14 pages of the original thread) to see if we can incorporate any more of your ideas. Thanks again for your input.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the update!

    Even if it doesn't become uber-popular, a fun destiny for grinding divine karma would be a welcome change.
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  3. #3
    Hero rosedarkthorn's Avatar
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    Looking forward to the new tree, especially if it's going to be a bit like Warpriest, which I found really fun on my Favored Soul. Thanks for the update!

  4. #4
    Community Member cave_diver's Avatar
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    Default Watered down fail

    Personally, if a tree in the divine destiny is not purely targeted to caster divines it will be a fail IMO.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave_diver View Post
    Personally, if a tree in the divine destiny is not purely targeted to caster divines it will be a fail IMO.
    Because Primal Avatar, a hybrid destiny between casting and melee, was such a huge fail, right?

    Seriously, I see this as being a good thing, hoping it comes out good!
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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  6. #6
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post

    I’ll speak to number 4 first. This idea has some merit, but… it would require a lot of time and, more importantly, a lot more time than we actually have to work on destinies for the near and midterm future. We’ve got a full schedule of other improvements, and a major rework of multiple destinies is too big a task to fit in. So instead of doing this, we’re going to tackle the other suggestions on the above list. By acting on these, we think we should be able to address some of the concerns that made people suggest number 4, because there is some good overlap between them.

    To address points 1 and 2 above, we will likely be making the new destiny fit a more hybrid melee/spellcaster role, a little like warpriest. This doesn’t mean it will be watered down and ineffective at both. Rather, it will have a strong mix of viable options for melees as well as caster hybrids. The new destiny will be strong in melee and be fun for melee oriented characters to play, but it will also have some key spell casting abilities and enhancements that will be of interest to divine casters, such as a significant boost to divine casting DCs and some strong spell-like abilities.

    In order to address point 3, we’d also like to make a set of changes to the other two divine epic destinies to adjust their roles and amplify their power level. While this will definitely amount to less than a complete reworking of these trees, we hope to be able to go through the trees and make several changes for the better. Some of these will include giving more melee potency to the Unyielding Sentinel, and giving more healing emphasis and general spell efficacy to the Exalted Angel.
    Fair enough. That being said, I think the divine DC bump should be an exalted angel trait, since it will be the "casting" tree (modeled on FvS at that) in the sphere.
    Someone got it wrong. Everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition because they were required to give 30 days notice, by law.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Give it Adrenaline and I'll be happy.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Because Primal Avatar, a hybrid destiny between casting and melee, was such a huge fail, right?

    Seriously, I see this as being a good thing, hoping it comes out good!
    I too see this as a good thing, but yeah, I think Primal Avatar, while fun and interesting, is pretty underpowered.
    Someone got it wrong. Everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition because they were required to give 30 days notice, by law.
    I can be found on Orien. My more active toons are Cilon, Solstone in Your Pack, and sometimes Acroyer.

  9. #9
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Because Primal Avatar, a hybrid destiny between casting and melee, was such a huge fail, right?

    Seriously, I see this as being a good thing, hoping it comes out good!
    Primal avatar, ED good only for twisting cocoon?

  10. #10
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Primal avatar, ED good only for twisting cocoon?
    Well . . . it WAS awesome before they nerfed treetarding.

  11. #11
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post

    To address points 1 and 2 above, we will likely be making the new destiny fit a more hybrid melee/spellcaster role, a little like warpriest.
    I think we're looking at entirely different warpriests.
    Because the one in game is not a hybrid. This tree don't have anything in common with casting.

  12. #12
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSpacePony View Post
    I too see this as a good thing, but yeah, I think Primal Avatar, while fun and interesting, is pretty underpowered.
    On my archer druid, when I had to switch to melee (dual wield scimies), I got higher dps out of Primal than I did out of anything else. The lighting attack on melee hits was fantastic. And for casting druids, it's pretty fantastic as well, especially if you are using your summons and wolf as well.

    (note: I am saying this from the perspective of a person who might be playing on EH at max, your average player who isn't grinding out destinies. I am fully aware that destiny a is more powerful than destiny b and if you don't splash monk you are gimp.)
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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  13. #13
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    I think we're looking at entirely different warpriests.
    Because the one in game is not a hybrid. This tree don't have anything in common with casting.
    It gives some token fire spell power in its core...

  14. #14
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Give it Adrenaline and I'll be happy.
    Give it smites that hit like adrenaline, that would also give paladins a reason to take more than 2 levels.

  15. #15
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    Here is a good yardstick: if any of the changes are attractive enough to entice my FVS out of Shiradi, you are on the right track. My FVS is caster focused, I don't do anything with melee except smack the occasional stubborn mob that refused to yield his last 10 hit points to my spells.

  16. #16
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I know it was probably mentioned in the other thread but it's important to repeat. Unyielding Sentinel currently has a few problems.

    1. The current metagame doesn't require tanks to be effective and this destiny is almost all defense.

    2. AC isn't needed for EH and isn't enough to make defense viable in EE making any buffs to AC almost meaningless, especially at the cost being the exclusion of another dps oriented destiny instead.

    3. Lots of PRR is a good thing, but even without Unyielding Sentinel and it's bonuses a defensively built toon can still get very close to the 50% mitigation soft cap that PRR provides. This means that a toon already specced in defense gains no more than a few % points worth of PRR gains from anything in sentinel. Any PRR bonuses in the tree don't help a defensive toon enough to justify the cost of not being in a dps tree instead.

    4. There have been improvements in the past to shield fighting, but it's still not quite there yet. Too many abilities rely on "actively shield blocking" You've already paid the price just by strapping on that board and decreased your dps. Make a move away from actively shield blocking as an ability prerequisite and simply having the shield equipped.

    5. Explore options that relieve the huge opportunity cost that medium and heavy armor have in that they "turn off" evasion and lower your dodge cap. If you could come up with a comparable buff that requires medium or heavy armor, you'd make it easier to go that route and proxy nerf the massive power that 2 or 6 levels of monk currently provides compared to other options. Make players want to wear heavy armor instead of just throwing on light armor or robes and receiving not only the same defensive benefits (mostly due to diminishing returns) with evasion as the ultimate defensive bonus as well. At this point, even toons specced heavily in the defensive trees are hard pressed not to just splash 2 monk and use lighter armor. They really don't lose much compared to what they gain.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  17. #17
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    oh well, i'm hoping for the best.

    Loulani (17 Druid, 2 Monk, 1 Artificer): a healer who cc's (70 Evocation DC) and does traps (110 Disable Device, 107 Search)

  18. #18
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  19. #19
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave_diver View Post
    Personally, if a tree in the divine destiny is not purely targeted to caster divines it will be a fail IMO.
    I know right ? Because melee and casting "hybrid" works oh so well in toughest content.
    That's why most clerics or fvs turned to smacking mobs with pointy things or Pinions or TRed to wizzies or druids ( okay one is monkcher now ).

    How about you :
    FIX THE IMPLOSION so it doesn't target NPCs or your party members.
    Raise the cap on direct damage spells like BB or DP.
    Make turning actually useful.
    Earthquake for divines because you know, you can't actually get meaningful DCs on symbols, commands or comets unless you gimp your primary school.

    Or not. If it's half arsed casting, half melee " hybrid", congratulations, another step to effectively eliminating castery divines from game cause that seems to be the trend since Motu.
    Last edited by Encair; 01-16-2014 at 01:29 PM.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  20. #20
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Thanks everyone for your interest and input on last month’s post on the new Divine Epic Destiny. Based on your feedback, we’ve made some changes to our design, and we’d like to share with you where things are headed for this new destiny.

    Some of the key suggestions we gathered so far from last month’s thread:
    1. Having the new destiny be melee centric to the exclusion of other niches like spellcasting may be undesirable.
    2. Including a boost to Divine Spell DCs would be great.
    3. Making some changes and improvements to Unyielding Sentinel and Exalted Angel would be most welcome.

    In addition to the above suggestions, another idea that many seemed to like was this:
    4. Substantially reworking the two existing divine destinies to allow for the new destiny to be a pure offensive divine caster.

    I’ll speak to number 4 first. This idea has some merit, but… it would require a lot of time and, more importantly, a lot more time than we actually have to work on destinies for the near and midterm future. We’ve got a full schedule of other improvements, and a major rework of multiple destinies is too big a task to fit in. So instead of doing this, we’re going to tackle the other suggestions on the above list. By acting on these, we think we should be able to address some of the concerns that made people suggest number 4, because there is some good overlap between them.

    To address points 1 and 2 above, we will likely be making the new destiny fit a more hybrid melee/spellcaster role, a little like warpriest. This doesn’t mean it will be watered down and ineffective at both. Rather, it will have a strong mix of viable options for melees as well as caster hybrids. The new destiny will be strong in melee and be fun for melee oriented characters to play, but it will also have some key spell casting abilities and enhancements that will be of interest to divine casters, such as a significant boost to divine casting DCs and some strong spell-like abilities.

    In order to address point 3, we’d also like to make a set of changes to the other two divine epic destinies to adjust their roles and amplify their power level. While this will definitely amount to less than a complete reworking of these trees, we hope to be able to go through the trees and make several changes for the better. Some of these will include giving more melee potency to the Unyielding Sentinel, and giving more healing emphasis and general spell efficacy to the Exalted Angel.

    As we get closer to filling out the new destiny’s tree, we’ll be looking at this thread (as well as back through the 14 pages of the original thread) to see if we can incorporate any more of your ideas. Thanks again for your input.
    Put this on hold until you can do it right. Theres no point in adding new stuff to the game unless you're prepared to do it properly.
    Also, spellcasting is not a niche.
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