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Thread: Monks

  1. #41
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    ^ You're justifying keeping a class weak due to fluff.

    That's not particularly helpful because it's totally inconsistent. Want fluff? Paladins and Monks now earn 50% gold/sales because they're required to donate to their church/god. Close off quests based on alignment (Lawful champs wouldn't intervene etc).

    The list goes on and on really.

    In the end, you need to balance game-feel/atmosphere with game mechanics. Ultimately, the end result will either be more of the same (underpowered) or mental gymnastics until a fluff-friendly solution comes that accomplishes a few of the same goals (traps, healing, alignment restrictions)

  2. #42
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Default Monkification monkmonkmonk

    Let us splash monk into barbarian and bard. Need moar monk!

    Yes I'm kidding.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    ^ You're justifying keeping a class weak due to fluff.

    That's not particularly helpful because it's totally inconsistent. Want fluff? Paladins and Monks now earn 50% gold/sales because they're required to donate to their church/god. Close off quests based on alignment (Lawful champs wouldn't intervene etc).

    The list goes on and on really.

    In the end, you need to balance game-feel/atmosphere with game mechanics. Ultimately, the end result will either be more of the same (underpowered) or mental gymnastics until a fluff-friendly solution comes that accomplishes a few of the same goals (traps, healing, alignment restrictions)
    Hmm, I can understand that. Would it help if I said that Barbarians really, really need some love from the Devs? Particularly since the enhancement pass, whereby my Barb seemed to lose some of that sparkle (and DPS) that made him fun to play?

    I'm just reluctant to go with a big change to Barbs that removing their whole penalty would be. Even if it's capstone - which would make it a rare capstones finally worth taking - which of the three trees will it be? All of them, otherwise you end up with every L20 Barb looking pretty much the same? And if it ends up (unlikely, but possible) being too powerful or gamebreaking, how happy are Barb players going to be when the Devs take the new toys away?

    I get that not everyone enjoys / cares about / knows about the background of the classes, the races and all that. I don't have the Eberron source books to know what that world is meant to be like. I think diversity across the classes helps the game, rather than just homogeneous toons. Hence some suggestions that I felt weren't too radical, still kept it to a theme, but gave the poor ol' Barb a leg up. It is entirely possible that none of the suggestions would make enough of a difference, although I'd certainly like to see the Barb / Druid thing work.

    You're correct in that some of the limiters for Pally / Monk, such as alignment restrictions, clearly can't or aren't being applied, which makes a case for departing from Barb canon. I'm just not sure a straight out "you can do everything now while raged" is the answer... mostly because I couldn't be sure that between UMD and the epic destinies, you could end up with something really broken.

    Game balance isn't easy, which is why there are so many monk splashes running about :-)

  4. #44
    Ultimate Uber Completionist Dalsheel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Move the critical multiplier from earth to fire.

    Stances are no longer selectable feats.
    +1
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  5. #45
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    The main reason people splash 2 monk is not only evasion but also 2 free feats. That's called poor developer planning. Rogue doesn't give free feats at levels 1 and 2.
    Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but the devs keep the core class abilities the same as the 3.5edition classes. In pen and paper monks get their feats at levels 1,2, and 6.


    Also, monks don't need a nerf (aside from stances being selectable feats, removing zen archery, and changing earth stance to give more prr and take away the +1 crit modifier to add crit mod to fire since that stance needs some serious love and makes more sense offensive ability goes there.) What needs to happen is other melee classes need some love: Bard, rogue, barbarian, fighter, and paladin. Wizards, sorcerers, favored souls, clerics, and druids are fine how they are.

    Call it karma, but in pnp monks are pretty weak in pnp when compared to other melee classes due to magic item slots being taken up to allow them to bypass certain dr that almost everything has post level 14.
    Last edited by Veriden; 01-17-2014 at 07:09 AM.
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  6. #46
    Community Member Veriden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    The fact that monks move so much faster than other classes and then can additionally fly across the screen seems a bit much.

    When you start adding up the things they have, it does start to get a little comical.
    Being unarmored has that effect, moving faster...it is a shame that the devs didn't add movement penalties for medium and heavy armor...als on pnp monks are the fastest moving class in the game..but I wish the dev's would've kept abundant step how it was supposed to be. A dimensional door ability.
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  7. #47
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    Call it karma, but in pnp monks are pretty weak in pnp when compared to other melee classes due to magic item slots being taken up to allow them to bypass certain dr that almost everything has post level 14.
    Apples cannot justify oranges man. I get it, Turbine needs to do what it needs to do to keep that doors open, but pretending that making 1 class the default obvious winner in ddo isn't justified by how strong they are in another, different game.

  8. #48
    Community Member HotMaarl's Avatar
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    the degree of monk in this game is vomit inducing.

  9. #49
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veriden View Post
    Also, monks don't need a nerf (aside from stances being selectable feats, removing zen archery, and changing earth stance to give more prr and take away the +1 crit modifier to add crit mod to fire since that stance needs some serious love and makes more sense offensive ability goes there.) What needs to happen is other melee classes need some love: Bard, rogue, barbarian, fighter, and paladin. Wizards, sorcerers, favored souls, clerics, and druids are fine how they are.
    This pretty much sums up my feelings on Monks. I don't actually have a problem with Zen Archery, but I'd like to see Zen Archery and 10KStars both made general feats that Monks can take with their Monk feats instead of having them be Monk-only feats. Fundamentally, though, Monks aren't the problem. Monks are mostly fine. The problem is that most of the melee classes are seriously under-performing compared to offensive casters in most content.

    And that has been a D&D problem for anything over 5th level since the red box days.
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  10. #50
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotMaarl View Post
    the degree of monk in this game is vomit inducing.
    The degreee to which the development team has pushed Monk beyond the other melee classes is an issue, but if you actually look at the Who screen in game, the number of Monks actually *in* the game is about where it should be.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
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  11. #51
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    It's good to see a pile-on.

    I've got little add, except to say njerk mohnks!

  12. #52
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    ^ You're justifying keeping a class weak due to fluff.

    That's not particularly helpful because it's totally inconsistent. Want fluff? Paladins and Monks now earn 50% gold/sales because they're required to donate to their church/god. Close off quests based on alignment (Lawful champs wouldn't intervene etc).

    The list goes on and on really.

    In the end, you need to balance game-feel/atmosphere with game mechanics. Ultimately, the end result will either be more of the same (underpowered) or mental gymnastics until a fluff-friendly solution comes that accomplishes a few of the same goals (traps, healing, alignment restrictions)
    LOLz . . . enforce the Oriental Adventures rule that a Monk could only have 3 magic items

    Kidding, that's silly in DDO but it was the kinda thing added as a balancing mechanism.

  13. #53
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It's good to see a pile-on.

    I've got little add, except to say njerk mohnks!
    whats a ks?
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  14. #54

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    I just realized I haven't enough popcorn in the house while reading all this. Be right back.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    A few ideas:

    - Change monk's evasion so that you MUST remain centered and without armor (no light armor, no warforged body feats, no shields, etc). Alternatively, change monk's coding so that if you are uncentered and using non-centered weapons and equipment, you not only lose your monk extra abilities but your evasion as well. This ensures the innate synergy with beast form druids, rogue acrobats, and kensei fighters, but keeps the class from becoming a necessity for all of these exploitative builds. Rogue and ranger evasion remains untouched.

    - For the love of all that is good and holy, change Ten Thousand Stars to work with throwing weapons. Once again, it's ten thousand STARS not ARROWS. This ability is just begging to be exploited.

    These ideas don't hurt pure monks, but tones down the ridiculous amount of splash builds that seem to dominate the game these days. This way you don't cut off the hand to spite the finger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

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