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  1. #1
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Default Where did my LR go wrong?

    Ok, so I started playing another of my builds, this time, a rogue/monk quarterstaff user. Damage was fantastic on this character. Shadar Kai, 10 rogue, 5 monk, acrobat and henshin enhancements. I realized after running crucible, however, that I wasn't really good at traps and my reflex save was a little low. So, I lr'ed, re-allocated points, put more in my INT than anything else. I kept my strength low (11) and took dex to 18 (I use dex for damage and to-hit).

    before the LR, I was doing about 60 a swing and crits around 140+, which I would crit every few hits it seemed. I ran Tor yesterday as well, and I was killing giants in three to four swings. After the LR, well, things just aren't the same. I'm hitting for around 25-35 a swing, and I haven't seen a single crit yet. Now, the only two feats that I didn't take were power attack (str wasn't high enough) and imrpoved crit: bludgeon. Are those two feats going to make THAT big of a difference? Or am I missing something? I can't seem to figure out WHERE I went so wrong on this, but dangit, I'm upset, because she was very fun to play, and now it takes near a minute to finish off one Gnoll caster in Blockade Buster elite.

    Ideas?
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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  2. #2
    The Hatchery Rawrargh's Avatar
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    power attack adds 10 extra damage when using a twohander. That's pretty substantial.

    Improved crit doubles your crit chance.

    ...Yeah, those two feats are a pretty big deal.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Ok, so I started playing another of my builds, this time, a rogue/monk quarterstaff user. Damage was fantastic on this character. Shadar Kai, 10 rogue, 5 monk, acrobat and henshin enhancements. I realized after running crucible, however, that I wasn't really good at traps and my reflex save was a little low. So, I lr'ed, re-allocated points, put more in my INT than anything else. I kept my strength low (11) and took dex to 18 (I use dex for damage and to-hit).

    before the LR, I was doing about 60 a swing and crits around 140+, which I would crit every few hits it seemed. I ran Tor yesterday as well, and I was killing giants in three to four swings. After the LR, well, things just aren't the same. I'm hitting for around 25-35 a swing, and I haven't seen a single crit yet. Now, the only two feats that I didn't take were power attack (str wasn't high enough) and imrpoved crit: bludgeon. Are those two feats going to make THAT big of a difference? Or am I missing something? I can't seem to figure out WHERE I went so wrong on this, but dangit, I'm upset, because she was very fun to play, and now it takes near a minute to finish off one Gnoll caster in Blockade Buster elite.

    Ideas?
    not nearly enough info here...

    WHat do these numbers include? Base damage only or Including Sneak attack?

    You arent comparing attacks against the same mobs. Different mobs are going to have different DR and fortification.

    Are you Solo or in group?

    but yes, Power attack and IC do indeed make a huge different.

    STR also give +1.5 damage on Quarterstaves. DEX is only 1:1 I think still. (IE: a 30 STR gives you +15 Damage with a Staff. a 30 DEX only gives +10. Not sure if this is a bug or WAI.)
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawrargh View Post
    power attack adds 10 extra damage when using a twohander. That's pretty substantial.

    Improved crit doubles your crit chance.

    ...Yeah, those two feats are a pretty big deal.
    This.

    10 damage a swing already lost, 30 damage on crits, and if your current dex is lower, there's more damage lost.

    IC:bludgeoning is an extremely important feat. If you have a 20/x2 q-staff, you're t5 enhancement makes it a 19-20,x3. IC:bludgeon makes it a 17-20,x3. That's a 30% damage increase you gave up.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    This.

    10 damage a swing already lost, 30 damage on crits, and if your current dex is lower, there's more damage lost.

    IC:bludgeoning is an extremely important feat. If you have a 20/x2 q-staff, you're t5 enhancement makes it a 19-20,x3. IC:bludgeon makes it a 17-20,x3. That's a 30% damage increase you gave up.
    pretty sure thats actually 18-20x3 as the +1 is added after IC.

    WOuld love to be corrected if wrong.. but Thats how I remember my Staff build working with Henshin... Is Acrobat different?
    °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸A R C H A N G E L S °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸,ø¤°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
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  6. #6
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm dumb. In my defense, I was half asleep last night when I did it, and still half asleep this morning when I tested it.
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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  7. #7
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Power attack on a 2 hander makes a big difference. Even most dex builds who wont go for Ocrit in epic levels will still try to get the 13 str needed for PA for 10 damage per hit. Improved crit can make a big difference depending on base damage dealt.

    There may be something you sacrificed enhancement wise in order to be better at traps and better reflex, like the staff damage bumps at each tier?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    pretty sure thats actually 18-20x3 as the +1 is added after IC.

    WOuld love to be corrected if wrong.. but Thats how I remember my Staff build working with Henshin... Is Acrobat different?
    I know for a fact that the henshin enhancement is improved by IC:blunt AND impact. have a 14/6 BF palamonk that crits on a 17 with a normal 20/x2 staff. And stout oak walking stick crits on 17's as well.


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    EDIT: May not have worked this way before, but it certainly does now!

  9. #9
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    pretty sure thats actually 18-20x3 as the +1 is added after IC.

    WOuld love to be corrected if wrong.. but Thats how I remember my Staff build working with Henshin... Is Acrobat different?
    As the poster above me said, this is indeed wrong.
    All threat range increases that I've tried (Acrobat for staves, Kensai for anything, Pulverizer for blugeon) are added before IC, making the actual bonus +2 if you have the feat.
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  10. #10
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Ok, so I started playing another of my builds, this time, a rogue/monk quarterstaff user. Damage was fantastic on this character. Shadar Kai, 10 rogue, 5 monk, acrobat and henshin enhancements. I realized after running crucible, however, that I wasn't really good at traps and my reflex save was a little low. So, I lr'ed, re-allocated points, put more in my INT than anything else. I kept my strength low (11) and took dex to 18 (I use dex for damage and to-hit).

    before the LR, I was doing about 60 a swing and crits around 140+, which I would crit every few hits it seemed. I ran Tor yesterday as well, and I was killing giants in three to four swings. After the LR, well, things just aren't the same. I'm hitting for around 25-35 a swing, and I haven't seen a single crit yet. Now, the only two feats that I didn't take were power attack (str wasn't high enough) and imrpoved crit: bludgeon. Are those two feats going to make THAT big of a difference? Or am I missing something? I can't seem to figure out WHERE I went so wrong on this, but dangit, I'm upset, because she was very fun to play, and now it takes near a minute to finish off one Gnoll caster in Blockade Buster elite.

    Ideas?
    Without seeing before/after
    Int may be too high after TR (12/14 Int should be plenty)
    Power Attack - Makes a difference (everyone has commented on this)
    IC:B - Read PA
    Reflex Save being too low is just surprising. This was with a +6 Resist item, +6 Dex item, and 15 (or higher) base Dex @ level 15 with 3 x Dex level ups?

    Honestly a before/after is more useful because it may have been gear and not the build.

  11. #11
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    not nearly enough info here...

    WHat do these numbers include? Base damage only or Including Sneak attack?

    You arent comparing attacks against the same mobs. Different mobs are going to have different DR and fortification.

    Are you Solo or in group?

    but yes, Power attack and IC do indeed make a huge different.

    STR also give +1.5 damage on Quarterstaves. DEX is only 1:1 I think still. (IE: a 30 STR gives you +15 Damage with a Staff. a 30 DEX only gives +10. Not sure if this is a bug or WAI.)
    The numbers were just an average hit. I was in a group, aggro not on me. I ran the same quests today that I did yesterday, gianthold, and yesterday my average attack was in the 60 range with crits over 140. Today, average hit with the same gear and same weapon is around 30 and no crits. However, I did the free feat swap and took improved crit and I did see crits again, around the same amount of time I was before (every 3-5 hits). Damage on those crits is lower than it was, at around 100.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Power attack on a 2 hander makes a big difference. Even most dex builds who wont go for Ocrit in epic levels will still try to get the 13 str needed for PA for 10 damage per hit. Improved crit can make a big difference depending on base damage dealt.

    There may be something you sacrificed enhancement wise in order to be better at traps and better reflex, like the staff damage bumps at each tier?
    No, enhancements are the same, though, it did occur to me to ask...does the quarterstaff line from acrobat stack with the quarterstaff line from henshin? If not, I can free up some ap.

    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Without seeing before/after
    Int may be too high after TR (12/14 Int should be plenty)
    Power Attack - Makes a difference (everyone has commented on this)
    IC:B - Read PA
    Reflex Save being too low is just surprising. This was with a +6 Resist item, +6 Dex item, and 15 (or higher) base Dex @ level 15 with 3 x Dex level ups?

    Honestly a before/after is more useful because it may have been gear and not the build.
    I put my Int at 14 after the LR, Dex at 18, all level ups in dex. +5 resist item in air stance nets me a reflex of 31. I also have a +6 dex item on, but again, gear did not change.
    Shorlong - Pale Master, Cevon - Druid Archer, Gorgnak - Barbarian, Addanc - Bear Tank, Juristash - Shadar Kai Assassin, Treiah - Morninglord Tempest Ranger, Baylfyre - CC Bard, Deimanus - Bladeforged Melee Arti, Daerian - Healing Cleric Morninglord, Krazig - Pally Tank, Veriste - Shadar Kai Death Knight, Xanapheia - TWF FVS, Helainia - Shadar Kai Henshin-Theif

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