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  1. #1
    Community Member DiamondPrinceJC's Avatar
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    Question WIS and Pally healing

    I have a question, I thought that a pally's WIS mod was used for LOH or healing spells, did that go away with the change to the heal skill? How important is WIS to a pally now?
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    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    The only effect wisdom has on both paladin and ranger spells is the ability to cast them at all. Well, there are a couple of dc based spells for rangers that probably have the dc affected. Your wisdom must be 10 + spell level to be able to cast. Items count, so you don't need a base 14 wisdom, 8 will work.

    Charisma affects how strong lay on hands are. Only overall positive spellpower affects how strong your cure spells will be. Heal skill adds to positive spellpower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Charisma affects how strong lay on hands are. Only overall positive spellpower affects how strong your cure spells will be. Heal skill adds to positive spellpower.
    And your wisdom mod is added to the heal skill so it does improve your healing spells but very indirectly.

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    Community Member DiamondPrinceJC's Avatar
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    Thanks, this answers my question!
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  5. #5
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondPrinceJC View Post
    Thanks, this answers my question!
    Best thing to do is dump wisdom so you can spend your build points elsewhere. Then just use a wisdom item (and tome) to get your wisdom high enough to cast your Paladin spells.
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    No, it's best to spend exactly 2 points on Wisdom so hopefully you can get at least 32 build points which makes it easy to spend 2 build points on it. Then with a +4 tome you can cast any Paladin spell. This means you can get gear that has better bonuses than +wisdom.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    For a paladin Wisdom effects:

    1. Heal Skill - Every 2 Points of Wisdom above 10 = 1 Heal Spell Power
    2. Spell Points - Every 2 Points of Wisdom above 10 = Roughly +10 Spell points
    3. Determines what level of Spells they can cast. 11 Wisdom required for Level 1, 12 For Level 2, etc. Paladin Max spell Level is 4. So any combination that gives you a minimum of 14 Wisdom will allow you to cast all Paladin spells.
    4. While paladins don't normally utilize their cure spells for offensive purposes, Wisdom does come into play for DC calculations if they do. Note: Lay On Hands use offensively vs Undead does not have a Save or SR check.

    Charisma on the other hand Effects
    1. Smite Damage/To-Hit
    2. Lay On Hands -> ( 10 + Paladin level ) x Charisma modifier
    3. Divine Might Bonus
    4. Number of Turn Undead attempts available

  8. #8
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    surprised nobody also mentioned wisdom for more sp. paladins have a lot of short timer spells that should be kept up, plus if you use your cure spells that small sp pool wont amount to much. a wisdom item and tomes will be sufficient, but you can burn through your mana fast, especially if you help spot heal and shrines get further and further apart the higher the level of quests generally. an extra couple points if you can spare wouldn't hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    surprised nobody also mentioned wisdom for more sp. paladins have a lot of short timer spells that should be kept up, plus if you use your cure spells that small sp pool wont amount to much. a wisdom item and tomes will be sufficient, but you can burn through your mana fast, especially if you help spot heal and shrines get further and further apart the higher the level of quests generally. an extra couple points if you can spare wouldn't hurt.
    Actually, I am surprised nobody mentioned Wisdom for Will saves. If you need more sp it's fairly easy to twist in Endless Faith for an improved Echoes of Power. Other options include greensteel Con-op items and the like. With things like that sp tends not to be a problem most of the time. However a Paladin's high charisma bonus to saves plus more Wisdom does well with will saves, which are useful so you don't get struck by numerous spell effects. So, yes it is important to have Wisdom.

  10. #10
    Community Member Son_of_the_South's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irenae View Post
    Actually, I am surprised nobody mentioned Wisdom for Will saves. If you need more sp it's fairly easy to twist in Endless Faith for an improved Echoes of Power. Other options include greensteel Con-op items and the like. With things like that sp tends not to be a problem most of the time. However a Paladin's high charisma bonus to saves plus more Wisdom does well with will saves, which are useful so you don't get struck by numerous spell effects. So, yes it is important to have Wisdom.
    It would be a waste to invest ANY points in Wisdom at all (and not "it's best to spend exactly 2 points on Wisdom") on most, if not all, Paladin builds. Paladins are a melee class, your stat points are best distributed elsewhere considering it is so easy to get your Wisdom to the point where it will count (11-14), ie to cast spells. Given you need a decent Strength (most likely but not in all cases), Constitution and Charisma (some builds may invest in Dexterity also), you're not going to want to spend points in Wisdom. You may even be wanting to invest in some Int for skill points. Id say Wis would be the least of your concerns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son_of_the_South View Post
    It would be a waste to invest ANY points in Wisdom at all (and not "it's best to spend exactly 2 points on Wisdom") on most, if not all, Paladin builds. Paladins are a melee class, your stat points are best distributed elsewhere considering it is so easy to get your Wisdom to the point where it will count (11-14), ie to cast spells. Given you need a decent Strength (most likely but not in all cases), Constitution and Charisma (some builds may invest in Dexterity also), you're not going to want to spend points in Wisdom. You may even be wanting to invest in some Int for skill points. Id say Wis would be the least of your concerns.
    Well to an extent you are right, getting to 14 wisdom is important, and considering Paladin spells are wisdom 10 + spell level it's best to start with 10 Wisdom and get a +4 wisdom tome. Any Wisdom beyond this however is usually a waste unless you need it for will saves. You don't need a higher max sp pool, and it's best to just use something like Cannith crafting to give yourself an item with a huge direct bonus to the heal skill rather than raise wisdom, if your heal spells need more power. Even if it is easy to get Wisdom + on equipment, your equipment can have much better bonuses meaning you waste places on equipment that are better spent elsewhere. On 32 point builds you can easily spend the 2 points on Wisdom and still have plenty left for your other stats. And if you don't have access to 32 point builds, then yes maybe this might be a concern otherwise it's inanely easy to do and makes life easier. Note I would never recommend Paladin without 32 points minimum as Paladins are stat starved. It is also easy to gear to enhance other stats besides Wisdom, like Strength + gloves e.t.c. where a huge bonus is more useful than when spent in Wisdom +. Equipment tends to give a large bonus to stats compared to most methods, so it's better to get more Strength + than Wisdom + from equipment. I mean come on, I should not need owl potions just to cast spells, and in the long run if you can avoid Wisdom + on equipment you can get more to another stat instead which is more useful. Wisdom is less of a concern, but that does not mean it is not a concern at all!

  12. #12
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irenae View Post
    Well to an extent you are right, getting to 14 wisdom is important, and considering Paladin spells are wisdom 10 + spell level it's best to start with 10 Wisdom and get a +4 wisdom tome. Any Wisdom beyond this however is usually a waste unless you need it for will saves. You don't need a higher max sp pool, and it's best to just use something like Cannith crafting to give yourself an item with a huge direct bonus to the heal skill rather than raise wisdom, if your heal spells need more power. Even if it is easy to get Wisdom + on equipment, your equipment can have much better bonuses meaning you waste places on equipment that are better spent elsewhere. On 32 point builds you can easily spend the 2 points on Wisdom and still have plenty left for your other stats. And if you don't have access to 32 point builds, then yes maybe this might be a concern otherwise it's inanely easy to do and makes life easier. Note I would never recommend Paladin without 32 points minimum as Paladins are stat starved. It is also easy to gear to enhance other stats besides Wisdom, like Strength + gloves e.t.c. where a huge bonus is more useful than when spent in Wisdom +. Equipment tends to give a large bonus to stats compared to most methods, so it's better to get more Strength + than Wisdom + from equipment. I mean come on, I should not need owl potions just to cast spells, and in the long run if you can avoid Wisdom + on equipment you can get more to another stat instead which is more useful. Wisdom is less of a concern, but that does not mean it is not a concern at all!
    Starting wisdom at 10 isn't the end of the world, but it's a lot to ask/assume that someone rolling up a Paladin needs a +4 wisdom tome. In general I would recommend a Paladin spend their precious build points elsewhere and just slot a wisdom item. Eventually it is really helpful for a Paladin to make a concordant opposition greensteel item, which comes with +6 wisdom, so with a starting wisdom of 8 that gets you to 14 and the ability to cast any Paladin spell.
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  13. #13
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    surprised nobody also mentioned wisdom for more sp. paladins have a lot of short timer spells that should be kept up, plus if you use your cure spells that small sp pool wont amount to much. a wisdom item and tomes will be sufficient, but you can burn through your mana fast, especially if you help spot heal and shrines get further and further apart the higher the level of quests generally. an extra couple points if you can spare wouldn't hurt.
    eh with about 500 sp I always seem to be able to keep zeal, favored, some other spell, and heal myself through quests. Thats just a 150sp augment and base 8 wis with some random gear on. Could actually go higher and fix it all in. I went borderline max str (16 for reg races mostly 18 for horcs) Then tossed I think 14 or 16 into con and then went borderline max cha. Wanted to add as much str as possible for tactics as well as the burst from manyshot. (Totally worth it)

    Anyway 500 sp seems to be the sweet spot. I rarely ever need a pot unless theirs either no shrine anywhere (like that damn fot raid) or if some fool has no means of self healing so I waste some sp on em. And with twisted tier 3 cocoon, I actually ditched cure serious because I never use the thing. Cocoons like a jacked up greater vigor being casted by a heal spec'd druid. Its around 200 to 250 a tick on me.
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