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  1. #341
    Ultimate Completionist
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    There is a lest one player in DDO who has grinded for everything and earned completionist without spending a dime on the game.

  2. #342
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Well, comments like Teh_Troll's and Arko's are exactly why we want a wider representation on the Council. The fact that the more serious gamers can't understand why a casual player would care enough. It's that attitude that limits your perspective.

    I consider myself a casual player. I have limited play time. But I have plenty of experience in the game. I have plenty of available chat time. I care about the game despite having limited play time. I can contribute to discussions, I can play test, I can scan new UI elements for potential problems. There's all sorts of ways I can help. So to disqualify me on the basis of my being a casual is just silly.

    It's not my call of course, but I would hope that the decision makers will have a vastly more open mind than those of you like Teh_Troll who are calling for a more... let's say "exclusive"... selection criteria. No offence Troll, you seem like a nice enough sort, I just think you're way off base here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Well, comments like Teh_Troll's and Arko's are exactly why we want a wider representation on the Council. The fact that the more serious gamers can't understand why a casual player would care enough. It's that attitude that limits your perspective.

    I consider myself a casual player. I have limited play time. But I have plenty of experience in the game. I have plenty of available chat time. I care about the game despite having limited play time. I can contribute to discussions, I can play test, I can scan new UI elements for potential problems. There's all sorts of ways I can help. So to disqualify me on the basis of my being a casual is just silly.

    It's not my call of course, but I would hope that the decision makers will have a vastly more open mind than those of you like Teh_Troll who are calling for a more... let's say "exclusive"... selection criteria. No offence Troll, you seem like a nice enough sort, I just think you're way off base here.
    I think one such as you would be an excellent addition, imho...
    Reminds me of some of the staff in another place who did not play much but greatly helped in their way.

    To define casual is difficult to say the least.
    If it simply means not playing the game way too much, then that covers an awful lot of people.
    If it simply means flower sniffers, I do that at times.
    If it means roleplaying, I do that at times.
    If it means not wanting to always play EE or extreme zerg, I am that at times too.


    What is casual?
    Perhaps Webster can help?

    cas·u·al [kazh-oo-uhl]

    adjective

    1. happening by chance; fortuitous: a casual meeting.

    2. without definite or serious intention; careless or offhand; passing: a casual remark.

    3. seeming or tending to be indifferent to what is happening; apathetic; unconcerned: a casual, nonchalant air.

    4. appropriate for wear or use on informal occasions; not dressy: casual clothes; casual wear.

    5. irregular; occasional: a casual visitor.


    I am not sure that clarified things for me, but perhaps the word occasional is to be used?
    I was thinking more of newcomer in my definition which is entirely different...

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    There is a lest one player in DDO who has grinded for everything and earned completionist without spending a dime on the game.
    Yep guilded with him and he's awesome and would make a great person to have on the PC. He has a particular perspective that would be an excellent addition to the group. He also has the ability to observe, comment and include others also.

    I guess I'm talking about the lowbie casual f2p perspective. I want this game to grow and first impressions are really important. I would like any changes to be looked at with the fresh eyes I no longer have as I haven't really been exposed to that in recent times. About a year ago I ran a harbour recruiting guild for a while and chatting and running with those people was just such an eye opener.
    ~ Khyber ~
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  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    Yep guilded with him and he's awesome and would make a great person to have on the PC. He has a particular perspective that would be an excellent addition to the group. He also has the ability to observe, comment and include others also.

    I guess I'm talking about the lowbie casual f2p perspective. I want this game to grow and first impressions are really important. I would like any changes to be looked at with the fresh eyes I no longer have as I haven't really been exposed to that in recent times. About a year ago I ran a harbour recruiting guild for a while and chatting and running with those people was just such an eye opener.
    Nods solemnly.

    Aye, I did a no bank life awhile back with only 1k plat for starting cash, it was eye opening.
    Potions that we take for granted are not that easy to have.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Just stopping by to say that we've had more than 300 applications so far, so we've got our work cut out for us. You have until the end of the day on the 20th to apply, applications sent in after that will not be considered for this year's council (presumably we'll have more than enough to pick a good council from.)
    I'm betting over 500 applications by the time it closes.

  7. #347
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    FTP players should have absolutely ZERO input in this game IMO. If they can't be bothered to spend $10 on DDO, they should not have a say in how it is designed.
    I don't agree with that. I feel that since this is how Turbine draws people in, using the promise of not being required to pay, F2P folks should have representation, as they can provide unbiased input for what they would be willing to pay for. What do they look for in a game that entices them to sick around and eventually open their wallets and spend.

  8. #348
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    Default How is this going to improve things?

    20-30 people who, have their own agendas, will be approached on a few occasions to talk about future changes to content. Out of that group, around 7 of them will have closer contact with the Dev Team.

    During the MotU release, didn't a dev come forward and state that they use data from the servers as an accurate account on how the game is running (or something along those lines)? So if this is the case, why do you need to speak with 20-30 people with their own agenda?

    And these 20-30 people can't talk about future changes until they are formally announced, so in theory this council can push through a change that the community as a whole disagree with, but by then it's too late. And would the devs still push forward a change that the council as a whole disagree with?

    The timing seems to be a bit iffy as well. I started playing a couple of months before MotU came out and remember that MoTU was heavily advertised within game. Everyone knew it was coming months in advance. Shadowfell on the other hand seemed to have caught people by surprised, and was released very quickly. This was around the same time that another MMO was entering closed beta stage. The player council was announced the same time that another wave of Beta invites was sent out by the same MMO. To me, this seems like a knee jerk reaction.

    I do believe that Warner Brothers have brought the rights and is working on a new Dungeons & Dragons film. No doubt there will be an expansion pack on the horizon to follow this. Wizards of the West Coast have provided you with 40 years of lore to work with, so you have more then enough material to create new content without having to slap epic levels on old content.

    One thing I have noticed though whilst I was looking at how the new MMO is going to compete with its competitors. And that is the lack of advertisement of this game. No one really talks about it, yet Dungeons & Dragons is the biggest name in RPGs. For some reason, I don't think the 20-30 player council is going to mention this.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Patently untrue. 1st, because long term vets have developed habits and preconceptions that are very hard to break. I barely remember what it was like to have no plat. I barely remember what it was like to run low level content on a brand new toon. 2nd, Green Newbs have a unique perspective on the game that can't be ignored. There is nothing more valuable to the longevity of a game than new player retention. Obviously the opinions of the vets are important, vital even, but to dismiss newbs and casuals is short sighted, to say the least.



    That I can agree with wholeheartedly.



    As has been stated MANY times, the Council will be offering feedback on plans/issues that are being looked at LONG before they make it to the general forum reading public. And, as has been stated MANY times, the devs read everything on the forums already, and the existence of a Council will not replace that.
    Don't be so quick to include all "vets" in the same category.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  10. #350
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    Thank you for taking steps get customer feedback. What comes to mind immediately is that it will be a difficult task to select a group of players that accurately represent the player base. The people selecting the committee will have their own biases and that will no doubt impact the make-up of the committee. Despite having a great group of people around him George Lucas still opted for JarJAr Binks so it only works as well as the people making the decisions are willing to listen and consider.

    What I would love to see is an in-game survey system that is available once per quarter per account and rewards a free gold roll for completing the survey. This would give Turbine a lot of data to work and would reach the entire player base.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    The paradox is that any casual player representative would no longer be casual after a year on the council...
    Absolutely correct and very insightful.

  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I don't agree with that. I feel that since this is how Turbine draws people in, using the promise of not being required to pay, F2P folks should have representation, as they can provide unbiased input for what they would be willing to pay for. What do they look for in a game that entices them to sick around and eventually open their wallets and spend.
    So an update to DDO will change the mind of a FTP gamer who has not yet opened their wallet even with 7+ years of "new" content available to them? Potentially catering to the wishes of the person that has never spent a dollar on the game, and then, when they receive everything they thought that they wanted, at the expense of paying customers' opinions who have already paid and continue to pay big, they don't spend a dime?

    Sounds great. Let their moms on the council to.

  13. #353
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I don't agree with that. I feel that since this is how Turbine draws people in, using the promise of not being required to pay, F2P folks should have representation, as they can provide unbiased input for what they would be willing to pay for. What do they look for in a game that entices them to sick around and eventually open their wallets and spend.
    Never trust what people say they would be Willing to Pay for, people clamored that they would be willing to pay for raid bypasses, and after they get put in, as opposed to being happy and just moving on, they call it Pay to Win and fuss that the timesr should be have been removed in the first place.

  14. #354
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    The paradox is that any casual player representative would no longer be casual after a year on the council...
    Why?
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  15. #355
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    As a community we spend more time drawing dividing lines and creating exclusivity while accusing the opposing side of the same. The result isn't even worth mentioning really.

    Seems to me though that a player council would benefit most from the input of multiple views. By intentionally excluding someone who may have a greater understanding of the inner workings of the game and game systems, (from a player perspective), more harm than good is created.

    In that sense it's no different than forming a council of yes men as someone stated somewhere I read recently. Bad deal for everyone. If casuals were the only voice being heard in feedback, negative changes for other types of players ensue. Same for powergamers, etc.

    If they expect a council to work, then it must have variety in skill level, mechanics comprehension, game commitment, and overall perspective. Just my random thoughts on the matter.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Seems to me though that a player council would benefit most from the input of multiple views. By intentionally excluding someone who may have a greater understanding of the inner workings of the game and game systems, (from a player perspective), more harm than good is created.
    You are correct, Sir.

  17. #357
    Community Member Thumbed_Servant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    ...

    Plus, it's simply not true that 5% visit the forums, never has been. The number is much higher. If it was stated that way in the past by someone here, I can't speak to that, but I'm pretty sure I've already tried to counter that false perception previously.
    Soooo....want to spill the beans and tell us the approximate percentage of the player base visits the forums?

    I imagine the percentage of the player base that POSTS to the forums could be much closer to 5%...of those who visit! lol, most of those visiting are probably just reading and not commenting. We few are the vocal minority...the other visitors the silent majority
    Thumbed_Servant (to my cats ) I LOVE playing a healer (nannybot to the derisive folks)
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  18. #358
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    Default Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guanmagi-1 View Post
    The jury's still out on that one. Just because a test group talked themselves into liking something doesn't necessarily mean it will be desirable. We hope for greatness.
    Yes, you should always be wary of Groupthink in any small group activity.

  19. #359
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livmo View Post
    Yes, you should always be wary of Groupthink in any small group activity.
    I'm the cure for that.

  20. #360
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm the cure for that.
    Unfortunately, since you're using more humor these days your mainstream popularity has gone up, and as it has your usefulness as a dissenting voice has gone down. You've essentially Trolled yourself out of your Troll status.

    Can't play Devil's Advocate when your views become mainstream.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

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