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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    you got another p2w option, bell of opening and gold daily rolls to make up thaat 15k xp...
    you spending TP to get daily gold rolls?

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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    What I mean by a gamer or quester is someone that is still focused on completing the quests for the first time. A meta-gamer is someone that has moved beyond the quests and is levelling alts, their guilds, or other things beyond the original quests. Meta-gamers are usually fine and friendly folk but complete every quest at near the speed of light. Not good when a gamer's speed is closer to that of molasses flowing downhill in February. There seems to be no way for questers to find groups that adventure at anywhere near the same speed as they do.

    Still wrong, i'm not fast, i'm bad with arcade games. Sucked at mario bross. You could put me somewhat in the middle

    Originally all DDO players were subscribers. When DDO went f2p the game was altered. In practical terms the game is p2w because it is not possible for a quester to get to L20 without spending a lot of money. This meets the definition of "p2w" at urbandictionary.com.
    It's possible in DDO, i did it, if you don't count the packs (i don't think adventure packs are pw2, more like p2play (a part of) the game

    As the quest level rises the traps hit harder and a rogue party member becomes mandatory for me. Virtually all player groups go too fast so the only solution is to take a rogue hireling along. Sadly, at 40 TP or 4 shards per hour a rogue contract is something I can't afford to use very much and generally don't.
    go normal then hard then group, that's what i did (just an advice about how i found a "solution"). Also took 3 hours to do some quests on elite, but usually with some slowie friends as i am

    A few months ago I used to roll shards once in a while and I could use some of them to buy rogue contracts. Shard rolls don't seem to happen at all anymore and when the shards stopped coming I cancelled my plans to buy another TP card to get another expansion. My funds are limited and there was no longer any way to know in advance what the total cost of the expansion would be. This is why I would like to see rogue hireling contracts available for a reasonable amount of platinum. That would allow for accurate budgeting and allow me to proceed with my planned purchase. If it doesn't happen that is okay too since the decision will have been made for me and I can go try something else.

    yeah spending money for hires suck, i know the feeling. I'm sorry your funds are limited, but well, guess is about priorities (most of the "real" money i spend and spent is on packs, and extra space for items because it gets super harsh at high levels)

    Okay, i can see that, but what is the right game? There are so many available now I find it very confusing to sort them all out. Point me in the right direction and I will go there.
    on april elder scrolls online will be released, check it out. P2play though but i think not expensive

    Um, no, the quest description actually contains the word "murder" and "frame" It is these acts that are incompatible with my character's alignment and not the nature of the victim. Had to abandon the entire quest line for that reason.


    eberron is different. Not rare to find a LG red dragon. If you read the whole pack and check a bit about droaam, these minotaurs are evil. And you're attacking a entire city of evil minos, that sound pretty heroic to me, not evil. I mean 1 to 6 against many, and being in a fantasy world where things like "good" and "evil" are pretty defined (even though eberron is the most simillar to the real world) i think "the end justifies the way to do it" in this case. (sorry, i don't speak english as my native language but i guess you get the say)

    How do you know it is about getting more money and not just about getting rid of the remaining subscribers?
    everything it's always about getting more money xD

    You have it backwards. GS bows are one of the most common bows in the game world and "Giant's Roar" is one of the rarest. Besides the GR bow is one of the very few with flappy thingies at the end of the limbs.

    not agree, giant's roar is fairly common i've had like 4 of those, and crafting my GS bow took longer. The only thing i can agree with is that you know you'll get the GS sooner or later but takes many shroud runs. Even though is true you might never get the pull for giant's roar, you need really bad luck
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    you spending TP to get daily gold rolls?
    nah i don't use the pw2 system, just saying you can
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...te-Threat-Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I am for removing all hirleings
    same. but won't happen
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...te-Threat-Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]Still wrong, i'm not fast, [...] put me somewhat in the middle[...]
    It is not about speed but about objectives. If a player's primary objectives are something other than completing the quests for the first time then they are a meta-gamers. Even if your playing speed is only two or three times mine that is still waaye too much of a difference to overcome.

    Here is an example of what typically happens when I group with meta-gamers. It is based on a true story with minor changes to protect the guilty:

    BEGIN SCRIPT -

    After ten, or so, solid minutes of my chasing blue dots on the mini-map and occasionally frantically mashing buttons we come to the end of the quest. The boss goes down in a few moments and we have the treasure. Here is the conversation that follows:

    Group leader - "Did you get it?"

    Me - "Get What?"

    Group leader - "The SAUR aka Stupendous Amulet of Underwear Removal."

    Me - "Yes, but I was going to sell it because it is L20 and I'm L10 and have little storage space.

    Group leader - "KEEP IT! It is an ultra-rare drop and is the only thing that can remove the shorts from an end-boss and make it vulnerable to a Barbarian's wedgies."

    Me - "How can removing its underwear possibly make it vulnerable to "wedgies"?

    Group leader - "This is an MMO not an RPG, if you want realism go play Elders' Scroll! PM me later and I will help you fix your build."

    Me - "Okay, I will put the SAUR in the bank. Thanks for advice."

    The group disbands.

    Update: By the time I reached L12 a game patch rendered wedgies ineffective making the SAUR almost worthless. Had to pawn it for about an eighth of the list price because there were no bids at the auctions and I needed the space.

    - END SCRIPT

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]go normal then hard then group[...]
    Not possible for me. I have never even seen a quester's rogue that was anywhere near my level. Rogues are always the alts of meta-gamers and guaranteed to go at least three times too fast for me to follow. My best option is to buy rogue contracts.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]usually with some slowie friends as i am[...]
    Waait a minnut...you just said your speed is "in the middle". You people don't even know the meaning of the word "slow". My performance is always in the top 5% of greatest total time taken to complete quests and usually in the top 1%. That's Stanine 9 performance! Even if you played the written rules-based game you are still only going to be Stanine 7 at the highest. On your worst day you could not possibly match my speed so stop pretending that you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]I'm sorry your funds are limited[...]
    Don't worry abou it because 99% of people in the real world have limited funds especially when it comes to luxury items like entertainment. The up front cost of expansions does not bother me but the hidden cost of all the "horse armor" needed to finish it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]it's always about getting more money[...]
    This reminds me of a funny true story. A couple of years ago our local fair was suffering from low attendance due to the weather. The local newpaper published an interview with a vendor that had been selling smoked beef sandwiches at the fair. He said that business was so slow that he had to raise prices by a dollar (from $4.50 to $5.50) to compensate and then another fifty cents later on when business had declined even further. By the end sales had been so poor that he wound up throwing out a lot of beef and made no profit at all. Poor stupid man, but does it remind you of anything?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    It is not about speed but about objectives. If a player's primary objectives are something other than completing the quests for the first time then they are a meta-gamers. Even if your playing speed is only two or three times mine that is still waaye too much of a difference to overcome.

    Here is an example of what typically happens when I group with meta-gamers. It is based on a true story with minor changes to protect the guilty:

    BEGIN SCRIPT -

    After ten, or so, solid minutes of my chasing blue dots on the mini-map and occasionally frantically mashing buttons we come to the end of the quest. The boss goes down in a few moments and we have the treasure. Here is the conversation that follows:

    Group leader - "Did you get it?"

    Me - "Get What?"

    Group leader - "The SAUR aka Stupendous Amulet of Underwear Removal."

    Me - "Yes, but I was going to sell it because it is L20 and I'm L10 and have little storage space.

    Group leader - "KEEP IT! It is an ultra-rare drop and is the only thing that can remove the shorts from an end-boss and make it vulnerable to a Barbarian's wedgies."

    Me - "How can removing its underwear possibly make it vulnerable to "wedgies"?

    Group leader - "This is an MMO not an RPG, if you want realism go play Elders' Scroll! PM me later and I will help you fix your build."

    Me - "Okay, I will put the SAUR in the bank. Thanks for advice."

    The group disbands.

    Update: By the time I reached L12 a game patch rendered wedgies ineffective making the SAUR almost worthless. Had to pawn it for about an eighth of the list price because there were no bids at the auctions and I needed the space.

    - END SCRIPT

    huh ? In PnP i've saved many items and stuff i didn't know what they were or for an absent member of the usual group many times. I even saved a one of those tomes giving xp in AD&D (dang don't remember the name, those for good, neutral and evil wizards) for later use. Even saved valuable items no one of us in the group could use cause of the value, cause it could be useful later. That's not meta-gaming, that's not being silly lol

    Same here saved some gems i didn't know what they were and they ended up being needed for flagging in Reaver's reach


    Oh and i have no time to fix your build, neither want to create no brainers

    Not possible for me. I have never even seen a quester's rogue that was anywhere near my level. Rogues are always the alts of meta-gamers and guaranteed to go at least three times too fast for me to follow. My best option is to buy rogue contracts.
    Look better. Post your own lfm. Talk to people, there are plenty of persons playing one character with forgotten alts they can pull up for help, and they will do it gladly.
    I had you're same attitude "oh you all fast people who don't understand pnp" blah blah. Trust me, you will meet no one. You're telling me you cannot take 1 "fast" run after you did a normal/hard slow, and prefer using bots ? I feel sorry, i really do. I'd be playing baldru's gate II for the 51th time in that case to be honest.

    And you're best option is to learn how to bypass the trap. Looks like you always had a rogue in your pnp groups or a super "nice" DM who didn't put traps when the rogue wasnt there, or maybe he was letting you guys hire a NPC rogue...

    Waait a minnut...you just said your speed is "in the middle". You people don't even know the meaning of the word "slow". My performance is always in the top 5% of greatest total time taken to complete quests and usually in the top 1%. That's Stanine 9 performance! Even if you played the written rules-based game you are still only going to be Stanine 7 at the highest. On your worst day you could not possibly match my speed so stop pretending that you can.
    I'm adaptable. And you dont know me...matching your speed means walk in sneak without striding gear ? I can, i did it and i'm sure i did it a lot more than you (because i play since a while. As i said before i did that from level 1 to 28, every friggin quest in the game except a few, and i mean less than 10 for sure. And yes even the walk-ups in threnal, quests no one is doing anymore cause they're outdated. (i have skipped part of the storm horns, and there are a little amount of quests where you just can't go slow cause you die. I'd name one but i don't want to spoil the game for you. And i snuck many quests not just once but a lot of times to help friends to sniff the flowers around too.).
    Matching your speed means sneaking to see what's in the next room and then thinking or discussing how to approach a fight for 20 minutes ? I can, i did it, probably more times than you.
    Matchin your speed means taking 3 to 4 hours to do Threnal on elite with 3 persons, one of them a level 7 monk ? (btw, it was one of the level 10's on elite, so level 12 quest. I can't remember the name but is the last one of the west ruins. And yes i love that pack neat story)
    And i said i'm in the middle with the meta-gaming, speed depends on my mood and the group i'm playing with, because this is an MMO so i play with people (no bots) and i don't try to convince them my style is better. I play with people who adapts to the group, as i do, and bail if they don't (zergers OR 1 super slow person staying always behind when the rest is going toghether with average speed. I play with people who play in group, wether is fast or slow. That's the true D&D spirit in my opinion, friends laughs and pizza)

    Stop pretending you're the only one super pnp-friendly mega slow player, cause you aren't that special. There is a good amount of people doing that but if you don't open yourself to meeting people you will never know it by yourself.
    Want an example of slowness ? One of my bests friends is playing a cleric, he's level 22. I met him when he was level 6 and that was exactly a year ago, january 2013. Can you imaging how slow he is ? I bet you don't
    A person who says "this is my first run of this quest, so i'll be talking to every squirrel in there". Well, i joined that run (and many with the same style). Oh and trust me, we talked to every squirrel in there.
    Oh and he doesnt play every day, but fairly often, and that character only.

    Don't worry abou it because 99% of people in the real world have limited funds especially when it comes to luxury items like entertainment. The up front cost of expansions does not bother me but the hidden cost of all the "horse armor" needed to finish it does.
    meh i dont worry about you nor care, no idea who you are IRL, maybe you live in a mansion and you are just cheap (i dont think so, but who knows) but i'm still sorry since it looks like is not letting you enjoy the game

    This reminds me of a funny true story. A couple of years ago our local fair was suffering from low attendance due to the weather. The local newpaper published an interview with a vendor that had been selling smoked beef sandwiches at the fair. He said that business was so slow that he had to raise prices by a dollar (from $4.50 to $5.50) to compensate and then another fifty cents later on when business had declined even further. By the end sales had been so poor that he wound up throwing out a lot of beef and made no profit at all. Poor stupid man, but does it remind you of anything?

    Where i live people would bought 2 just in case prices raise again (not i, btw), so no, reminds me nothing. It's always about getting more money, wether it works or not is not the point.
    Last edited by harry-pancreas; 01-22-2014 at 10:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]huh?[...]
    The script is about other people and not you. The point is that meta-gamers are questing for gear. They aren't even questing for gear to go questing because they have already done all the quests several times. To me repeating the same quest over and over just to get that ultra-rare drop is no fun at all. Nerfing the hard-won item in a later patch only makes things worse.

    Constant MMO references are also somewhat confusing. DDO allows six in a group or twelve in a raid and not the hundreds or thousands that the word "massive" suggests. What does MMO actually mean anyway and why is it so often given as an excuse for every problem in DDO?

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]Oh and i have no time to fix your build, neither want to create no brainers[...]
    Again, I was not talking about you but go look at most threads in this forum or even posts in this thread and see how fast they spin off on tangents. I started this thread to repeat what I thought was a good suggestion made by another poster back in 2011. Rogue hirelings for platinum would help me greatly and partially address the common complaint of "elitism" in DDO. It did not take long after creating the thread for posters to criticize my build, gear, and making other off-topic remarks. Some even made ad hominem arguments against me personally and not just my Ranger.

    Adopting that suggestion from 2011 should help to retain some newcomers no matter how hard some meta-gamers seem to be working to chase them away. FranOhmsford even listed the best rogue contracts to make available for platinum. Of course it would help even more to always have questers and meta-gamers in different instances but that is not as simple to do as making a few rogue hirelings available for platinum.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]Look better. Post your own lfm.[...]
    My Elf does not look all that bad but as I said "the soap is a lie" so cleaning him up is not an option. Posting an LFM probably won't help because virtually all comers will be meta-gamers that think taking twenty minutes to finish a long quest is going "slow". From their point of view it is true because "fast" for meta-gamers would be closer to six minutes. Even a "slow" twenty minutes is still six times faster than my "normal" 120 minutes. What I need is to group with other questers on their first time through. Sadly, there are almost no newcomers left on Thelanis to see my LFM so that leaves rogue hirelings as the next best choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]And you're best option is to learn how to bypass the trap.[...]
    No, in my day you played what you rolled and my Elf Ranger will never be able to disarm traps. Nor will I re-roll him with a +20 wooden thingie to add the ability. There is nothing wrong with my character's build or his gear and he does just fine solo if he has a rogue hireling with him. The issue is not if those hirelings should be available, which they have been for years, but if they should cost real money or virtual platinum.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]you aren't that special.[...]
    Exactly right, and that is another very good reason not to group with others. Give me rogue hirelings for platinum and I will go play in my own instance and never bother anyone else. That's a promise.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]Want an example of slowness ?[...]he's level 22[...]was level 6[...]a year ago[...]Can you imaging how slow he is ? I bet you don't[...]
    Bet I do! My current and first character has just made L12 after 10 months of adventuring. That is about 1.2 levels per month. Your quick friend did 16 levels in 12 months which is a blistering rate of 1.33 levels per month. How could I possibly keep up with a speed-demon like that? By the way, I never said I was slowest but only in the top 5% of slowness. The top 1% must be far slower than I. None of this matters, though, because speed matching only matters in groups of players. After being dragged through quests at five times my normal speed in 100% of the groups I've been in there is no point in trying to group with other players again. So I won't group but will use hirelings that can always match my speed when and if I can afford to buy their contracts.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...]meh i dont worry about you nor care[...]
    Wasn't talking about me but the vast majority of people that have limited funds. Rich one percenters have always been able to take five hirelings and a pile of tasty cakes on each and every quest. They also have real nice gear. That doesn't mean that poor people shouldn't be able to hire a rogue too.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    Where i live people would bought 2 just in case prices raise again (not i, btw), so no, reminds me nothing. It's always about getting more money, wether it works or not is not the point.
    Poor stupid man raised his prices while his competitors lowered theirs. The competitors settled for less profit but stupid's greed caused him to suffer a substantial loss. In subsequent years the competitors returned to the fair but poor stupid never came back. Wonder what happened to him.

    Did you know shards stopped dropping in silver daily rolls a long time ago? That significantly increased the real-world cost of rogue hireling contracts for f2p and Premium players. Many players left and never returned. Wonder what happened to them and if having rogue contracts for platinum might help to bring some of them back.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    The script is about other people and not you. The point is that meta-gamers are questing for gear. They aren't even questing for gear to go questing because they have already done all the quests several times. To me repeating the same quest over and over just to get that ultra-rare drop is no fun at all. Nerfing the hard-won item in a later patch only makes things worse.

    Constant MMO references are also somewhat confusing. DDO allows six in a group or twelve in a raid and not the hundreds or thousands that the word "massive" suggests. What does MMO actually mean anyway and why is it so often given as an excuse for every problem in DDO?
    i know you wasnt talking about me with the plot, but you did call me meta gamer, so you actually were doing it

    Again, I was not talking about you but go look at most threads in this forum or even posts in this thread and see how fast they spin off on tangents. I started this thread to repeat what I thought was a good suggestion made by another poster back in 2011. Rogue hirelings for platinum would help me greatly and partially address the common complaint of "elitism" in DDO. It did not take long after creating the thread for posters to criticize my build, gear, and making other off-topic remarks. Some even made ad hominem arguments against me personally and not just my Ranger.

    Adopting that suggestion from 2011 should help to retain some newcomers no matter how hard some meta-gamers seem to be working to chase them away. FranOhmsford even listed the best rogue contracts to make available for platinum. Of course it would help even more to always have questers and meta-gamers in different instances but that is not as simple to do as making a few rogue hirelings available for platinum.

    that's my point - i'm a jerk and i don't want new comers who need hirelings, hence it's a terrible suggestion
    My Elf does not look all that bad but as I said "the soap is a lie" so cleaning him up is not an option. Posting an LFM probably won't help because virtually all comers will be meta-gamers that think taking twenty minutes to finish a long quest is going "slow". From their point of view it is true because "fast" for meta-gamers would be closer to six minutes. Even a "slow" twenty minutes is still six times faster than my "normal" 120 minutes. What I need is to group with other questers on their first time through. Sadly, there are almost no newcomers left on Thelanis to see my LFM so that leaves rogue hirelings as the next best choice.
    you would be surprised about what you can find. And lfm has a portion for a text where you could put "newcomers only" or whatever. Sniffing flowers is the common term and everyone will understand

    No, in my day you played what you rolled and my Elf Ranger will never be able to disarm traps. Nor will I re-roll him with a +20 wooden thingie to add the ability. There is nothing wrong with my character's build or his gear and he does just fine solo if he has a rogue hireling with him. The issue is not if those hirelings should be available, which they have been for years, but if they should cost real money or virtual platinum.
    i'm NOT talking about going rogue. I've said "bypass" and not "disable". Funny how you skipped my comment of the DM in pnp, no rogues and traps. Maybe you were the one directing an puting no traps for your players when they were lacking of rogues.
    Using hires is not "solo" btw. Solo is, well... solo.
    Exactly right, and that is another very good reason not to group with others. Give me rogue hirelings for platinum and I will go play in my own instance and never bother anyone else. That's a promise.

    there is no good reason to not group with other is an MMO, except situational ones (if the situation last months is more like a rule than an exception) plus you're making no sense. Not special then can't group with others ? Looks like you feel the opposite way really ("oh i'm so slow not meta gamer and special, i can't find my match". BLAH)
    and i wouldnt say you "bother" really. Would you be bothered if you were the rogue and someone asks for help ?

    Bet I do! My current and first character has just made L12 after 10 months of adventuring. That is about 1.2 levels per month. Your quick friend did 16 levels in 12 months which is a blistering rate of 1.33 levels per month. How could I possibly keep up with a speed-demon like that? By the way, I never said I was slowest but only in the top 5% of slowness. The top 1% must be far slower than I. None of this matters, though, because speed matching only matters in groups of players. After being dragged through quests at five times my normal speed in 100% of the groups I've been in there is no point in trying to group with other players again. So I won't group but will use hirelings that can always match my speed when and if I can afford to buy their contracts.

    do you play mostly every day, around 5 hours ? I still bet you can't imaging...or maybe you just examine every barrel for 5 minutes hoping to find...er...idk
    , more squirrels ?

    Wasn't talking about me but the vast majority of people that have limited funds. Rich one percenters have always been able to take five hirelings and a pile of tasty cakes on each and every quest. They also have real nice gear. That doesn't mean that poor people shouldn't be able to hire a rogue too.
    poor ? playing an MMO ? Don't make me laugh, i see starving skinny childs sleeping in the street every day going to work. Please be respectful. If you think poor people can afford a comp and internet connection, you have no idea what poor people is.

    Poor stupid man raised his prices while his competitors lowered theirs. The competitors settled for less profit but stupid's greed caused him to suffer a substantial loss. In subsequent years the competitors returned to the fair but poor stupid never came back. Wonder what happened to him.
    not sure where you going with this and the p2w giving more money. Turbine did not raise the prices, nor raised they production costs. Dev's salaries are probably the same and they just added new stuff.
    Did you know shards stopped dropping in silver daily rolls a long time ago? That significantly increased the real-world cost of rogue hireling contracts for f2p and Premium players. Many players left and never returned. Wonder what happened to them and if having rogue contracts for platinum might help to bring some of them back.
    oh i know, i won 100 once, was fun. I'm glad they don't drop anymore that was too much. What you should have done, IMHO, is to save some (for posting free) and start selling the items you don't want in the astral auction house; problem solved.
    --
    Last edited by harry-pancreas; 01-23-2014 at 09:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...] so you actually were doing it [...]
    Okay, maybe I was referring to your playing style indirectly but does it resemble the remark? Does your character go questing for gear and do you refer to DDO as an MMO in the game or on the forums? [There may not actually be a SAUR item but would you believe there is a Nude Bomb?]

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...] i don't want new comers who need hirelings, [...]
    Well you got your wish, new players of any sort are rare in DDO these days. Many posts in several threads on the DDO forums seem to be about driving new people away from the game. Even suggesting a minor change like rogues for platinum that will harm no one and could help DDO prosper is met with attacks on the original poster. Why is that if we are all just DDO fans trying to have some fun?

    Thou doth protest the hirelings too much, methinks.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...] lfm has a portion for a text where you could put "newcomers only" or whatever. [...]
    There are almost no slower-playing newcomers to see the LFM. If there was a special instance for beginners it would be almost empty most of the time. Tried grouping a half dozen times and every single time the pace was waaye too fast for me. Meta-gamers usually quest at several times my normal speed. When I did group with them I had no recollection of where we had been or what we did there. The only way I know it wasn't all a dream is the "SAUR" or other unique item that remained in my inventory.

    Whatever those quests were they sure weren't fun, at least not for me. Back in the day when I had some shards and quests were less nasty taking only Burak and Riana on quests really was fun. Those days are gone but could return if I could only buy rogue contracts for platinum..

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...] there is no good reason to not group [...]
    There are several good reasons for me not to group. The odds are against players ever finding a good match. First the players must all be on the same server. Then being in the top 5% of slowness means about a one in twenty chance of finding someone that goes about the same speed. If those things match then they also have to be the right level, with the right skills, and get along well with each other. The server, speed, level, skills, and personality must all match for players to be compatible. Thats like winning a lottery and not a LFM request!

    Besides, why should I be holding any group of gamers back when I can adventure just fine in my own isolated instance with hirelings? All I need is rogue hireling for platinum and my solo party will be balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...] poor ? playing an MMO ? [...]
    Relatively poorer people then. Like the ones that can't afford to buy very many rogue contracts for TP or shards.

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...] not sure where you going with this [...]
    Poor Mr. Stupid's greed caused him to raise prices and lose money instead of making a profit. Turbine absolutely did raise the real cost of rogue hirelings for f2p and Premium players. I know because I are one.

    The current cost of rogue contracts is clear, 40 TP for one hour's work from Shadow. What is not clear is how many rogue contracts will be needed to complete all of the quests in an adventure pack. That makes accurate budgeting impossible and is one of the reasons most reviewers now say DDO is "p2w".

    Many other game companies sell game coin for cash but they also pay players game coin for viewing ads. Those games are called "f2p" even though they are actually sponsored to play or "s2p" as I call it. Advertisers paying companies for access to a viewing audence is a simple concept. Radio and television have used a similar scheme for several decades with good results.

    Because some competing game companies have lowered their prices by going "s2p" most "p2w" titles are now declining and may not be back next year. p2w companies that raise prices still further to make up for lost revenue will probably only hasten the decline as it did for poor Mr. Stupid. On the other hand, lowering the real cost of the game by doing things like making rogue contracts available for platinum should help to slow the decline or maybe even stop it.. Do you see where I going now?

    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    [...] start selling the items you don't want in the astral auction house; problem solved. [...]
    In the past two months out of the dozens of items I have posted on the Shard Exchange only three have sold; Mummy's wrap for 3, Drow Leather for 3, and an exceptional Khopesh for 3. Nothing else would sell no matter how good it was. That is nine shards in two months time and that will buy two one hour Shadow contracts with one shard left over. Those two contracts could be used up in as little as a couple hours of adventuring. Of course more one-hour contracts are available at two for a real-world dollar for those who would spend the money. Same problem as before, no rogue contracts available for platinum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    Okay, maybe I was referring to your playing style indirectly but does it resemble the remark? Does your character go questing for gear and do you refer to DDO as an MMO in the game or on the forums? [There may not actually be a SAUR item but would you believe there is a Nude Bomb?]


    Well you got your wish, new players of any sort are rare in DDO these days. Many posts in several threads on the DDO forums seem to be about driving new people away from the game. Even suggesting a minor change like rogues for platinum that will harm no one and could help DDO prosper is met with attacks on the original poster. Why is that if we are all just DDO fans trying to have some fun?

    Thou doth protest the hirelings too much, methinks.
    .
    ok i didn't even read the rest, because i didn't attack you, at least not before you did tbh. I even tried to help till you pulled this attitude "you're a meta gamer and you can't quest with me, blah blah blah". Fine, whatever.

    Soloists drive me crazy (and i solo a lot, but i prefer to be with people), i try to be nice and helpful with everyone (with the kind of help they need and ask) but why would i want new people to play with, if they're soloing with hires and the put the style over the company ? Why are they even playing an MMO, or this one in particular ?
    I hate zerging and i have zerger friends, cause they're nice people, once in a while i go zerg with them for a few quests, we have a good time, not a big deal. It drives me mental when a new player comes with this attiture "hey, you're all wrong" and then "the community" (i agree, not the best one) is the one to be blamed because the new player left. He left either cause the game was too hard or he didn't like it, period.

    I didn't mean to attack you but really, you're being too close minded.

    And sometimes i metagame, last times pretty often, but it drives me mental when people assume that's my only way. This is a rich game (in content) and it's worth to explore every part of it, IMHO, even the "BYOH KNOW IT" lfm's with a leader that's a jerk. Just saying.
    Last edited by harry-pancreas; 01-27-2014 at 08:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

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    And now i'm gonna answer you, to be polite (*tries to keep it calm*)


    Quote Originally Posted by Waaye View Post
    Okay, maybe I was referring to your playing style indirectly but does it resemble the remark? Does your character go questing for gear and do you refer to DDO as an MMO in the game or on the forums? [There may not actually be a SAUR item but would you believe there is a Nude Bomb?]

    OF course i go questing for gear. After i did the quest a few times i let myself meta game and get the gear i will need to do the next "real run" (aka pnp-friendly style) without bots, without store items and all that **** (i don't usually use store items except, again, for something specific. Once i forgot my spell components twice, i had some point for favor and bought omnispell dust. OMG what a big deal)

    Well you got your wish, new players of any sort are rare in DDO these days. Many posts in several threads on the DDO forums seem to be about driving new people away from the game. Even suggesting a minor change like rogues for platinum that will harm no one and could help DDO prosper is met with attacks on the original poster. Why is that if we are all just DDO fans trying to have some fun?

    Thou doth protest the hirelings too much, methinks.
    You take it to personal. You want rogue hires for plat, i want all hires out. You post a suggestion in the forums, i keep the "real" feedback (some want, some not). Live with it.
    Oh and i see lot of new people, don't listen too much to forums, not always reflect reality (example: "OMG we need to buff pure classes, no one plays them!!!!!!!!----- Well i'm tired of seeing lvl 20 fighters, clerics, wizards, sorcerers, monks, favored souls xD)

    There are almost no slower-playing newcomers to see the LFM. If there was a special instance for beginners it would be almost empty most of the time. Tried grouping a half dozen times and every single time the pace was waaye too fast for me. Meta-gamers usually quest at several times my normal speed. When I did group with them I had no recollection of where we had been or what we did there. The only way I know it wasn't all a dream is the "SAUR" or other unique item that remained in my inventory.
    Whatever those quests were they sure weren't fun, at least not for me. Back in the day when I had some shards and quests were less nasty taking only Burak and Riana on quests really was fun. Those days are gone but could return if I could only buy rogue contracts for platinum..

    That's true, and the same happened to me for a long time. Then i met some friends with my style, and, do you know how ?
    LFM's. And half docen of times you say ? I think the best person with my style i met was in the 99th time i joined an lfm.
    And i agree, the arcade-mode in DDO is no fun, at least not till you have the quest in your memory
    (and it would be still more fun to be amnesiac, forget it an re-crawl, but we're humans and we remember).
    Is it supossed to be fun when you use you're name instead of the word "way" ? "lol" ?

    There are several good reasons for me not to group. The odds are against players ever finding a good match. First the players must all be on the same server. Then being in the top 5% of slowness means about a one in twenty chance of finding someone that goes about the same speed. If those things match then they also have to be the right level, with the right skills, and get along well with each other. The server, speed, level, skills, and personality must all match for players to be compatible. Thats like winning a lottery and not a LFM request!

    Don't be so exigent, it's a game.

    In the level, right skills, blah blah blah. What if you try to meet nice PEOPLE, however they play ? You will be surprised how much you can have if you open you're mind.


    Besides, why should I be holding any group of gamers back when I can adventure just fine in my own isolated instance with hirelings? All I need is rogue hireling for platinum and my solo party will be balanced.
    Because is an MMO. Turbine should really make a stand-alone copy of the game to play offline...maybe we would get an empty who pannel but no lag at least...

    Relatively poorer people then. Like the ones that can't afford to buy very many rogue contracts for TP or shards.
    We have a computer and net connection. We're rich. Take a look to africa, asia, Haiti, Zuriname (not that i expect you to know where some of those places are), heck, most of the world...

    Poor Mr. Stupid's greed caused him to raise prices and lose money instead of making a profit. Turbine absolutely did raise the real cost of rogue hirelings for f2p and Premium players. I know because I are one.

    The current cost of rogue contracts is clear, 40 TP for one hour's work from Shadow. What is not clear is how many rogue contracts will be needed to complete all of the quests in an adventure pack. That makes accurate budgeting impossible and is one of the reasons most reviewers now say DDO is "p2w".
    contracts needed to complete any quest (save 5-6 as much): 0
    I'm not exceptional (i'm actually pretty bad) so if i did it, you can do it.

    Many other game companies sell game coin for cash but they also pay players game coin for viewing ads. Those games are called "f2p" even though they are actually sponsored to play or "s2p" as I call it. Advertisers paying companies for access to a viewing audence is a simple concept. Radio and television have used a similar scheme for several decades with good results.

    And how that's not meta gaming ? I see adds, my character gets plat. Sure, whatever...

    Because some competing game companies have lowered their prices by going "s2p" most "p2w" titles are now declining and may not be back next year. p2w companies that raise prices still further to make up for lost revenue will probably only hasten the decline as it did for poor Mr. Stupid. On the other hand, lowering the real cost of the game by doing things like making rogue contracts available for platinum should help to slow the decline or maybe even stop it.. Do you see where I going now?

    DDO is fine, only thing it needs to retain new players is to slow down with the self-healing and solo-friendly (like rogue hirelings) so we see lfm's back up again. Check the who pannel and check how many people is there, and how many people is in party.
    And this is why rogues for plat would actually harm everyone, while it's helping just a few people.

    In the past two months out of the dozens of items I have posted on the Shard Exchange only three have sold; Mummy's wrap for 3, Drow Leather for 3, and an exceptional Khopesh for 3. Nothing else would sell no matter how good it was. That is nine shards in two months time and that will buy two one hour Shadow contracts with one shard left over. Those two contracts could be used up in as little as a couple hours of adventuring. Of course more one-hour contracts are available at two for a real-world dollar for those who would spend the money. Same problem as before, no rogue contracts available for platinum.
    Sell better stuff then, of course the mummy wrapings will give you nothing. And gotcha, how's that not meta-gaming ? Never seen an auction house in pnp.



    cheers.
    Last edited by harry-pancreas; 01-27-2014 at 09:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    Please set the minimum to a negative number so some classes can generate love. There is too much hate in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harry-pancreas View Post
    cheers.
    Okay bye.

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    I have a better idea, permanent hirelings. Of Course I would barely even pay plat for any hireling, let alone RWM. So I just skip hirelings entirely, unless needed for soloing a quest. It's not like they are needed most of the time anyway. I like most people refuse to pay RWM for temporary hirelings that go away quickly and I even feel my Plat is better spent elsewhere. I guess if you have TP from earned favor it might work a couple of times but that's it and is not a permanent solution. So maybe the answer is get a friend to play with who has the rogue skills you need. Because I don't think they are going to listen to the obvious answer that Rogue hirelings should be available for plat.

  14. #94
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    No.

    If you can't get around traps on Norm then the problem isn't the traps. If you absolutely refuse to either build a PC with HP's, evasion or the least amount of gear then that's fine..... you just need to learn how to play better. A vet can run naked through elite if need be. If you can't complete on Norm or Solo then the problem lie's with you, not with what you can buy or not buy. This isn't Little League, not everyone gets a trophy for sitting down in the outfield and picking their nose.
    Neg Ten, ruining your enjoyment of the game one quest at a time.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    No.

    If you can't get around traps on Norm then the problem isn't the traps. If you absolutely refuse to either build a PC with HP's, evasion or the least amount of gear then that's fine..... you just need to learn how to play better. A vet can run naked through elite if need be. If you can't complete on Norm or Solo then the problem lie's with you, not with what you can buy or not buy. This isn't Little League, not everyone gets a trophy for sitting down in the outfield and picking their nose.
    Nice.

    The OP is self-depricating. He already stated he can't play, he is slow, hits every trap, etc. He admitted all the stuff you attempted to insult him with.
    His argument is simple - you can get hireling that heal for plat, why is a rogue any different?

    You don't have to agree but please don't repeat things the OP has already plead guilty to.

    (Next excuse - the thread is too long I can't be bothered to read it).

  16. #96
    Community Member biggin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Nice.

    The OP is self-depricating. He already stated he can't play, he is slow, hits every trap, etc. He admitted all the stuff you attempted to insult him with.
    His argument is simple - you can get hireling that heal for plat, why is a rogue any different?

    You don't have to agree but please don't repeat things the OP has already plead guilty to.

    (Next excuse - the thread is too long I can't be bothered to read it).
    Oh, I read the whole thing. The reason you can get a hireling that heals for plat IMO is because it is no different then drinking pots, only faster and cheaper. I wasn't trying to insult him. He insults himself enough. But just because he refuses to build a viable character or learn how to play the game is obviously of no consequence to any of you. If he had trouble finding his way through quests should we then give him portables holes so he can walk through the walls?

    The lower quests are trials so to speak. You learn, you progress, you get rewarded. I'm sorry if he is old and has a slow computer. That is still no excuse. He has made plenty of references to his ranger. Why not put in 2 rogue levels? He could easily hit every trap himself with very little in the way of gear. He could go as slow as he wanted and traps would become a non-issue. The devs have put plenty in place for a person to either survive, remove or get around traps. About 95% of them can be timed, it just takes practice. How does a person who can't survive a trap on Norm think that he would or even should continue to progress? That is a huge red flag that you've done something wrong. This isn't DDO 2006 where there was no scaling and you spent days getting beat to death in the harbor.

    I get what he's saying, but let's just say you could design your own Pac-Man. If he said that yes, he made a Pac-Man that was four times slower than all the ghosts and it couldn't eat the pellets, would we redesign the game or just maybe, possibly, he may want to build a better Pac-Man? And not every quest has these 'impossible' traps. Even myself, a player since the beginning, sometimes eats a trap I've forgotten about, I may roll a 1 and get blasted. My answer isn't to basically make traps null and void, which is what you are asking. I put my big boy pants on, pay my repair bill, go back in and try harder. A person needs to figure these things out. D&D is traditionally a thinking persons game. Let's not turn it into even less of that if possible.
    Neg Ten, ruining your enjoyment of the game one quest at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    Oh, I read the whole thing. The reason you can get a hireling that heals for plat IMO is because it is no different then drinking pots, only faster and cheaper.
    You can't raise yourself from the dead or attack while drinking a pot. Big big difference.


    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    I wasn't trying to insult him. He insults himself enough. But just because he refuses to build a viable character or learn how to play the game is obviously of no consequence to any of you. If he had trouble finding his way through quests should we then give him portables holes so he can walk through the walls?
    You did pretty much insult him.
    He did not ask for portable holes to walk through walls. He asked for a rogue hireling to help with traps. Which is already available - for real money.


    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    I'm sorry if he is old and has a slow computer. That is still no excuse.
    Excuse for what? Asking to make a rogue hire available for plat?

    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    He has made plenty of references to his ranger. Why not put in 2 rogue levels? He could easily hit every trap himself with very little in the way of gear. He could go as slow as he wanted and traps would become a non-issue.
    That's a good suggestion. Better than "You suck at playing. Learn to not suck."


    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    The devs have put plenty in place for a person to either survive, remove or get around traps. About 95% of them can be timed, it just takes practice. How does a person who can't survive a trap on Norm think that he would or even should continue to progress? That is a huge red flag that you've done something wrong. This isn't DDO 2006 where there was no scaling and you spent days getting beat to death in the harbor.
    Now you're back to how bad he sucks, and how dare he ask for a rogue hire be made available for plat.

    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    I get what he's saying,
    Do you? He is saying that RIGHT NOW you can get a rogue hireling, but you have to pay cash. Why? All other hires are available for plat, why the hold out on rogues? IMO a cleric hire is FAR more valuable than a rogue for the occasional traps. Clerics are available for plat.

    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    but let's just say you could design your own Pac-Man. If he said that yes, he made a Pac-Man that was four times slower than all the ghosts and it couldn't eat the pellets, would we redesign the game or just maybe, possibly, he may want to build a better Pac-Man?
    See, you don't really get what he's saying. He is not asking for a game to be redesigned.

    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    And not every quest has these 'impossible' traps.
    I didn't see where he said there were impossible traps in every quest.

    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    Even myself, a player since the beginning,
    Gosh I couldn't have guessed. You go on and on about how this is easy, that's easy, I did it, and therefore don't move my cheese. Tell me how a rogue hire for plat would affect you? Maybe it would make a quest easier for someone without your l33t mario skillz and you would lose some bragging rights? I don't know.


    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    My answer isn't to basically make traps null and void, which is what you are asking.
    Oh really? A rogue hire (which is available right now for real $$) is making traps null and void? So a cleric for hire makes damage null and void too, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    I put my big boy pants on,
    Typical comment when trying to insult others.

    Quote Originally Posted by biggin View Post
    D&D is traditionally a thinking persons game. Let's not turn it into even less of that if possible.
    Its a video game really.

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    whether you are a good player or not, a new player or vet or whatever the case may be, there is no reason to not have rogue hires for plat in the game also. people use them for xp or to unlock chests with named loot or to get secret door optionals or because they die when the wind blows. who cares if you NEED to learn to play and survive running or getting around traps. if someone NEEDS a rogue for traps to get by them than they probably NEED a cleric to babysit them and raise them from the dead too which means they have to buy a hire from the store anyways. with all this logic of rogue hires shouldn't be available for plat in the game and people should learn to play or build better characters, might as well start charging real live players for joining groups with specific skills than.
    Gary Gygax quotes

    The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience.

    There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you are involved in, whether its a fantasy game, the Wild West, secret agents or whatever else. You get to sort of vicariously experience those things.

    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

    The secret we should never let the game masters know is that they don't need any rules.

  19. #99
    Community Member biggin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    You can't raise yourself from the dead or attack while drinking a pot. Big big difference.




    You did pretty much insult him.
    He did not ask for portable holes to walk through walls. He asked for a rogue hireling to help with traps. Which is already available - for real money.




    Excuse for what? Asking to make a rogue hire available for plat?



    That's a good suggestion. Better than "You suck at playing. Learn to not suck."




    Now you're back to how bad he sucks, and how dare he ask for a rogue hire be made available for plat.



    Do you? He is saying that RIGHT NOW you can get a rogue hireling, but you have to pay cash. Why? All other hires are available for plat, why the hold out on rogues? IMO a cleric hire is FAR more valuable than a rogue for the occasional traps. Clerics are available for plat.



    See, you don't really get what he's saying. He is not asking for a game to be redesigned.



    I didn't see where he said there were impossible traps in every quest.



    Gosh I couldn't have guessed. You go on and on about how this is easy, that's easy, I did it, and therefore don't move my cheese. Tell me how a rogue hire for plat would affect you? Maybe it would make a quest easier for someone without your l33t mario skillz and you would lose some bragging rights? I don't know.




    Oh really? A rogue hire (which is available right now for real $$) is making traps null and void? So a cleric for hire makes damage null and void too, right?




    Typical comment when trying to insult others.



    Its a video game really.

    Nothing I said was insulting unless you take the stance that you will never get better at this game so make it easier. This is not an 'I walked uphill both ways' speech. This is simple mechanics of the game. You need to learn how to play the game. Yes, this is exactly like asking for portable holes to walk through walls. A trap is in essence a wall you either can easily pass 40 different ways or you cannot progress. Now you are asking that for plat people should be able to make all traps null and void. Well, sorry, but I don't think that's good. Why not just put a 'Pay 50 plat, disable all traps' message at zone in? For an extra 50 plat, they can remove all mobs. Maybe have an NPC walk you to the end of the quest?

    If you can't learn how to kite mobs as a divine, arcane or ranged player I would not ask that for plat they all get stuck to the floor. Not every quest has a trap. If you can't survive them on Norm then yes, the fault lies with the player, not the mechanics.
    Neg Ten, ruining your enjoyment of the game one quest at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    whether you are a good player or not, a new player or vet or whatever the case may be, there is no reason to not have rogue hires for plat in the game also. people use them for xp or to unlock chests with named loot or to get secret door optionals or because they die when the wind blows. who cares if you NEED to learn to play and survive running or getting around traps. if someone NEEDS a rogue for traps to get by them than they probably NEED a cleric to babysit them and raise them from the dead too which means they have to buy a hire from the store anyways. with all this logic of rogue hires shouldn't be available for plat in the game and people should learn to play or build better characters, might as well start charging real live players for joining groups with specific skills than.
    So basically your stance is that no matter what, no matter how badly a PC is built, no matter if they don't want to group with people, everyone should be able to complete every quest?
    Neg Ten, ruining your enjoyment of the game one quest at a time.

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