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  1. #1
    Senior Developer Knockback's Avatar
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    Default Let's Talk About Update 21 XP Changes

    Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.

    We've been listening to your feedback, so this time around we're looking specifically at epic quests. The exact details are still somewhat fluid, but I can definitely say we've increased the experience for 17 quests. Those quests are:

    • Chains of Flame (Epic only)
    • Trial By Fury (Epic only)
    • The Druid's Curse (Epic only)
    • Thorn and Paw (Epic only)
    • Outbreak (Epic only)
    • In The Belly of the Beast (Epic only)
    • The House of Death Undone (Epic only)
    • The Tracker's Trap (both Epic and Heroic)
    • What Goes Up (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Breaking the Ranks (both Epic and Heroic)
    • A Break in the Ice (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Lines of Supply (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Army of Shadow (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Through a Mirror Darkly (both Epic and Heroic)
    • The Thrill of the Hunt (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Friends in Low Places (both Epic and Heroic)
    • A Lesson in Deception (both Epic and Heroic)

    We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

    • Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)

    Our goal is to get the XP numbers more in line with how long it takes to actually complete a quest. Some of the adjustments are minor - 6% more base XP for A Lesson in Deception, for example. Many of the changes are quite substantial. Ten of the quests have had their base XP raised by more than 20%. What Goes Up has had its base XP changed by ... Well, let's not ruin the surprise. Let's just say it's a nice, impressive number.

    I don't see [insert quest name here] in this list. Does that mean that quest isn't going to be adjusted?

    Just because a quest isn't listed here doesn't mean its XP won't be tweaked either up or down in a future release, or even for Update 21. We are definitely planning on more rounds of XP adjustments further on down the road.

    For some quests we're just waiting for the right time to make the changes. For example, we'll be adjusting the Heroic XP in Three Barrel Cove when we add Epic mode to that area.

    For other quests we're evaluating what the right fix is. Should we adjust the base XP? Change the optional XP? Alter the contents of the quest itself? Or some combination of the three? Given the sheer number of unique quests in DDO, it will be a while before can we give every one the full attention it deserves.


    Why is this happening now? Why weren't these XP values changed earlier?


    As PurpleFooz explained in the fall, we only recently got the ability to fine-tune XP - Epic XP in particular. We also wanted to give people time to get familiar with the Shadowfell Conspiracy quests before we started changing their XP values.


    Don't you think you should change [insert quest here]?


    If you have ideas for which specific quests should be adjusted (or not adjusted) and why, this thread is the perfect place to talk about it. Please use this thread to discuss!

    Knockback
    Senior Content Designer

  2. #2
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knockback View Post
    Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.


    We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

    • Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)

    Our goal is to get the XP numbers more in line with how long it takes to actually complete a quest. Some of the adjustments are minor - 6% more base XP for A Lesson in Deception, for example. Many of the changes are quite substantial. Ten of the quests have had their base XP raised by more than 20%. What Goes Up has had its base XP changed by ... Well, let's not ruin the surprise. Let's just say it's a nice, impressive number.
    prepare for the rage muahahahaha
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  3. #3
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    Yup, get your VON3's in now. I have a feeling that one is going to sting..

  4. #4
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    A Cabal For One has horrendously low XP on repeats. Something like 15-16K for an EH run.
    The Fockers of Argo
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  5. #5
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    +1 for increasing XP
    +1 for communication! keep it coming!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    prepare for the rage muahahahaha
    As long as they don't **** us like they did for challenges, I don't see this being a problem. At least we didn't pay 1500 TP for VON and have the whole thing ruined in one pass.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knockback View Post
    Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.

    We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

    • Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)

    Senior Content Designer
    By how much? Though on a personal basis, I will be done farming xp by Update 21, not sure how well this is gonna go in general. This is THE quest fo XP at the moment. Then again, it would make sense, cuz it is too easy.

    What I would like to see, is a marked difference for the xp received from Epic Elites.

  8. #8
    Community Member Portalcat's Avatar
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    Thank-you. Sincerely, thank-you.





    As someone who primarily runs epic content, the XP distribution needs pretty much that exact overhaul. VoN3 is modestly high but mostly everything near level cap is way too low for its relative difficulty. I'm really glad to hear about the WGU bump - it takes really good parties full of EE regulars often over an hour with many deaths to complete on EE.


    My main suggestion would be to explore a general bump to the XP on EE difficulty relative to EH. Right now, epic XP across difficulties is currently scaled the same way that HN-HH-HE are scaled despite the fact that the difference in difficulty and time to complete is much greater from EH to EE than it is from HH to HE.
    Last edited by Portalcat; 01-08-2014 at 05:19 PM.

  9. #9

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Knockback View Post
    We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

    • Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)
    Lame.
    "The sword itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with swords."



  10. #10
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    VoN 3 has been coming. Hopefully it's only a small decrease.

    But that's all people want to run to level. More xp in other quests, means hopefully people will be willing to run other stuff too.

    My only suggestion would be to raise the xp of both House D Epics (Bargain of Blood, etc.) and Red Fens. Both those areas could use a boost (And loot overhaul, but I'll take an xp boost for now).
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  11. #11
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DagazUlf View Post
    Lame.
    Dag... you knew this was coming. You even said so yourself
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  12. #12
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    I'd prefer raising xp of optionals to reward thoroughness rather than zerging to the main objective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge
    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
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  13. #13
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knockback View Post
    Our goal is to get the XP numbers more in line with how long it takes to actually complete a quest. Some of the adjustments are minor - 6% more base XP for A Lesson in Deception, for example. Many of the changes are quite substantial. Ten of the quests have had their base XP raised by more than 20%. What Goes Up has had its base XP changed by ... Well, let's not ruin the surprise. Let's just say it's a nice, impressive number.
    can you explain this part in more detail please? is this based on taking the average time from xp/min players and flowersniffers? is difficulty of a quest figured into the equation as well? i know that can be difficult to figure out because what one considers difficult another may consider easy. is there actual data that you guys keep track of how long quests take to complete and how often quests are played on average? i just think how fast players can complete a quest should not be the only thing considered when figuring out xp numbers for quests.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  14. #14
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Nobody should be surprised about VoN 3. It was nice while it lasted. It's a shame that it took so long to get some improvements for the xp from the last expansion. It really should have released with better xp to increase sales and decrease the bad player reviews a bit. Nice to see it, but about 5 months too late on that one.

    The druid chain could probably use a bump on heroic as well as epic. I'm wondering why it wasn't considered.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  15. #15
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knockback View Post
    Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.

    We've been listening to your feedback, so this time around we're looking specifically at epic quests. The exact details are still somewhat fluid, but I can definitely say we've increased the experience for 17 quests. Those quests are:

    We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

    • Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)

    Our goal is to get the XP numbers more in line with how long it takes to actually complete a quest.

    For some quests we're just waiting for the right time to make the changes. For example, we'll be adjusting the Heroic XP in Three Barrel Cove when we add Epic mode to that area.

    For other quests we're evaluating what the right fix is. Should we adjust the base XP? Change the optional XP? Alter the contents of the quest itself? Or some combination of the three? Given the sheer number of unique quests in DDO, it will be a while before can we give every one the full attention it deserves.


    Why is this happening now? Why weren't these XP values changed earlier?


    As PurpleFooz explained in the fall, we only recently got the ability to fine-tune XP - Epic XP in particular. We also wanted to give people time to get familiar with the Shadowfell Conspiracy quests before we started changing their XP values.


    Don't you think you should change [insert quest here]?


    If you have ideas for which specific quests should be adjusted (or not adjusted) and why, this thread is the perfect place to talk about it. Please use this thread to discuss!

    Knockback
    Senior Content Designer
    EN Von 3--100k in 7ish minutes might be a bit over the top compared to, I don't know... EVERYTHING ELSE. I applaud this change (even though I currently run it a lot now).

    As mentioned above, Epic Cabal needs a bump.
    I'd also bump Feast or Famine.

    Although you said specifically epic quests, Hold for Reinforcements needs the base XP increased by about 1000%!!!

  16. #16
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knockback View Post
    Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.

    We've been listening to your feedback, so this time around we're looking specifically at epic quests. The exact details are still somewhat fluid, but I can definitely say we've increased the experience for 17 quests. Those quests are:


    • The Druid's Curse (Epic only)
    • Thorn and Paw (Epic only)
    • Outbreak (Epic only)
    • The Tracker's Trap (both Epic and Heroic)
    • What Goes Up (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Breaking the Ranks (both Epic and Heroic)
    • A Break in the Ice (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Lines of Supply (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Army of Shadow (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Through a Mirror Darkly (both Epic and Heroic)
    • The Thrill of the Hunt (both Epic and Heroic)
    • Friends in Low Places (both Epic and Heroic)
    • A Lesson in Deception (both Epic and Heroic)
    Unless you increase the XP in these by a factor of one million, I'll never willingly set foot in them. Maybe not even then. I grudgingly do the prison for PDK favour. I think these quests are bad quests, and I don't enjoy running them.
    We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

    • Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)
    Farming Karma sucks already. Lowering the XP in Von 3 is going to make it suck even more. It's VERY obvious that you're all disappointed that more people don't run Shadowfail content (there's a reason it has that nickname) and you're trying your damndest to get people out there. I'm not sure more XP is gonna do it. I only run the prison junk on HE for favour purposes when I don't feel like going through the other stuff on EE. And also skipping the yawnfest challenges that give PDK favour.

    Since Harper favour is utterly useless (Harper Pin never worked for me so I don't even bother anymore) I don't need to do it.

    GL getting people to run awful content though. You're gonna need it.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Default On second thought

    On second thought, while I applaud this refinement, I personally don't much care about epic XP. I hit lvl 28 fast enough, and wallow there scrounging for comms.

    Sooo, I know it's off topic, but since someone (me) brought comms up, I feel the comm rewards need about a 30-50% increase. Even if that creates a small surplus of comms, that wouldn't be so bad. It would be nice to see a reward list and not think of it as "Things I CAN'T have".

  18. #18
    The Hatchery CaptainSpacePony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    Since Harper favour is utterly useless (Harper Pin never worked for me so I don't even bother anymore) I don't need to do it.
    FYI Harper Pins work these days. I find them quite useful. They were fixed... sometime before now.

  19. #19
    Intergalactic Space Crusader
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    Default Nice!

    Thank you for doing this.

    I like the Shadowfell content, but there was not much motivation to run it after the first tour due to items and xp. Although I like to run the quests it seems hard to fill an LFM for them.

    On the other hand filling a VON3 is quick and easy. Always a full boat.

    Hopefully there will be more Shadowfell LFMs and less VON3s.

    However it might upset some people if you reduce the VON3 xp. I won't be offended tho. The new content is more fun than running VON3 oodles of times (because its what folks want to do allott).

    For the critics out there that may feel pressured to buy Shadowfell due to the proposed changes. I got it on Cyber Monday for $14.99 for my alt. That deal may or may not come around again. Please lobby for guest passes so I can get some for my guildies. Thanks.

  20. #20
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    I agree on the Khyber run. It's just too easy and too much XP for what it is. BUT DO NOT NUKE IT TOO FAR. There still needs to be a reason to run it.
    The Fockers of Argo
    Fuglymofo; LOOON; Hobaggin; Fuglyrobo; Buttscracher; Whoaa

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