Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 186
  1. #41
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    Very few people ran LOB even at the height of it's popularity, which in turn was brief. People still run TS all the time because at level it has great XP, and people still run both epic and heroic Chrono (though I'm not sure why since I personally don't use any loot from it anymore and the XP isn't great) at least moderately often, far more than LOB. I think Abbot would be more popular if it wasn't so damned horrible to flag for on top of being a difficult raid (at level at least). Shroud is probably the most popular raid ever because a) it's accessible b) it has great loot c) you can work towards that loot and achieve progress. It's popularity dropped dramatically when they made the blades overly brutal due it it being too hard for too many people. Despite people like you wanting this (because it makes you feel elite) it makes the raid unpopular (meaning for the majority, you know... non-elite) which is inherently a bad thing.

    So to make this a successful raid it needs (IMO):
    a) decent XP, better than comparable non-raid quests at level and especially below it's level
    b) good loot (better than lootgen at level or even maybe a couple levels higher) that's achievable by the MAJORITY of players. Giving an advantage to elite is a good thing I agree, but it needs to be more like shroud (still achievable but takes a little longer) or FoT than like LOB where the rewards for different tiers we extreme enough for most people not to bother unless they could run elite (which YOU don't want everyone to be able to do)
    c) replayability. Make it fun, not horrible. Make enough variance in loot to be worth repeating often, not just til you get the one item you need. Avoid protection scenarios, etc.
    d) accessibility. Don't make us re-flag every time, or make us travel half way across hell, or make us gather 10 rare random drop items, that only drop in awful quests, etc
    e) challenge. Don't make it a snooze fest, but also don't make it impossible for anyone but the top 5%, or nobody will run it.

    the shroud blades being too hard? really. now that is just bs. just because you die in them doesn't mean we all do. shroud is ran quite often on argonessen and normally on elite too. So don't tell me its too hard for the masses. most pug it. either 1. get more hp 2. don't stand in them. its not that hard to move away from them. See now im losing what respect i have for you. raids are meant to be challenge and hell i like long raids sometimes if the rewards are worth it. i would love to see citw drop 1 commendation on normal and 1-2 hard 1-3 elite. giving it more reasons to be ran.

    there is nothing wrong with asking for a variety of raids. except the minute i see you start whining some things are too hard or you think others are elitist because they run it. most pugs run shroud and citw. granted citw isnt ran much anymore since the raid boxes but people might do it because they ran fot into the ground and were tired of seeing it.

  2. #42
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,297

    Default

    Wait. Isnt LoB the one where 1 person tanks, 1 person heals, and 10 people stand around waiting for the mediocre loot?

    Personally, I would prefer a raid which requires 12 people working together to win.

  3. #43
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    4,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    the shroud blades being too hard? really. now that is just bs. just because you die in them doesn't mean we all do. shroud is ran quite often on argonessen and normally on elite too. So don't tell me its too hard for the masses. most pug it. either 1. get more hp 2. don't stand in them. its not that hard to move away from them. See now im losing what respect i have for you
    He is obviously not talking about now.
    Did you not play when 1 blade used to hit you 4 times, each time for 100 dmg?
    Were you not on forums at that time?
    Everyone were whining that its too hard.

  4. #44
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Why LOB is fail . . .

    - Loot is out-dated dreck
    - 10 minutes in an explorer area suck
    - Flaggin quests suck and give terrible XP

    The loot is the biggest issue, if the loot were still relevant people would still run this.
    the loot is just as relevant as Shroud weapons and people use GS in epics until they get their epic weapons.

    a 10 minute run is nothing. that's like running to CoF and stopping to shrine along the way. when LOB first came out and up until it pretty much died off, it took more than 10 minutes to even begin the raid because the group would clear, hold the instance for players and recall out to re-buff. and people complained about the run to VOD and Hound. 10 minutes is nothing.

    I haven't actually done any House C quests since the xp change, but ive heard nothing but good things about it. not a single negative thing about the xp.

    LOB actually failed because of the drop rates that were wonky and the run to the raids. if the devs had actually put in a teleporter and adjusted the drop rates the right way than LOB would have lasted longer. when CITW and FOT came out, people left LOB for better loot.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  5. #45
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    Wait. Isnt LoB the one where 1 person tanks, 1 person heals, and 10 people stand around waiting for the mediocre loot?

    Personally, I would prefer a raid which requires 12 people working together to win.
    and 1 person kiting, 1 person healing/repairing the kiter during rain of blades. basically 9 players taking care of trash and beating on the back of Lord of Blades, but somehow people still died if they didn't pay attention or react fast enough.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  6. #46
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    the loot is just as relevant as Shroud weapons and people use GS in epics until they get their epic weapons.
    Wrong.

    Greensteel can be used at level 12. Lob is 18 for the meh ones, 20 for the "good" stuff which is all out-dated by level 21 when you can start using Drow weapons.

    300k XP going from 20-21 is like 1 hour? Okay, if you're a slow player 1 night.

    Greensteel accessories . . . you can never have too many displace clickes, etc . . . offer unique bonuses that cannot be gotten anywhere else.

    You can seriously say this junk is as useful as Shroud stuff and expect to maintain any credibility?

  7. #47
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    13,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Wrong.

    Greensteel can be used at level 12. Lob is 18 for the meh ones, 20 for the "good" stuff which is all out-dated by level 21 when you can start using Drow weapons.

    300k XP going from 20-21 is like 1 hour? Okay, if you're a slow player 1 night.

    Greensteel accessories . . . you can never have too many displace clickes, etc . . . offer unique bonuses that cannot be gotten anywhere else.

    You can seriously say this junk is as useful as Shroud stuff and expect to maintain any credibility?
    not sure how I can be wrong when I said players use GS until they get their epic weapons in epics. they first have to run the quests to get these epic weapons and im sure they are using more than angry words. I thought some of the LOB weapons tiered out was actually really good. the problem was the drop rates and how long it took to craft one.

    who said anything about getting from level 20-21? I was talking about the quests xp, not how much xp you need to level lol.

    I wasn't talking about GS accessories either. I was talking about GS weapons and LOB weapons.

    maybe you didn't care for the LOB weapons, but many people did and it was a popular raid until enough players got the weapons that they wanted crafted and than CITW came out that offered better weapons.
    #MakeDDOGreatAgain

    You are the one choosing not to play alts.

    Casual player now investing way less than I used to into the game, playing 1-3 months at a time and still want nothing to do with Reaper. #improvepuggrouping#alldifficultiesmatter

  8. #48
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,167

    Default

    Abbott is the most drama filled raid in the game. or was at least. I haven't played it in over a year.
    For that reason. I've seen more nerd rage there than at a star trek convention.

    And LOB never appealed to me. Just by having the raid be all bots it alienated the rogue assassin class pretty much entirely. The best role we had was disarming the guns. Like anyone cared. Everything is immune to SA and assassinate. Raids where one group or class are marginalized or totally castrated aren't fun for people who play that class.

    I like TOD style raids.

  9. #49
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    833

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    the shroud blades being too hard? really. now that is just bs. just because you die in them doesn't mean we all do. shroud is ran quite often on argonessen and normally on elite too. So don't tell me its too hard for the masses. most pug it. either 1. get more hp 2. don't stand in them. its not that hard to move away from them. See now im losing what respect i have for you. raids are meant to be challenge and hell i like long raids sometimes if the rewards are worth it. i would love to see citw drop 1 commendation on normal and 1-2 hard 1-3 elite. giving it more reasons to be ran.

    there is nothing wrong with asking for a variety of raids. except the minute i see you start whining some things are too hard or you think others are elitist because they run it. most pugs run shroud and citw. granted citw isnt ran much anymore since the raid boxes but people might do it because they ran fot into the ground and were tired of seeing it.

    Wow, you lack context. I said nothing about shroud blades being too hard NOW. The shroud blades were JACKED for a brief time after they upped them I personally ran with some good groups and completed without too many problems (this is also with lower level cap and everyone being less uber than now... now I could maybe solo it if I wanted to try), but I knew some people, guildies included, that stopped running shroud for awhile and it was hard to get a shroud run together... then they curbed blade damage back down a bit and shroud runs went back to normal attendance. Maybe this was before your started playing? Otherwise I would have thought you'd remember the outrage at the time.

  10. #50
    Founder xberto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Far Out Man
    Posts
    1,209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    Rather than follow our typically inelegant development format of: create something crappy --> upload to lamannia --> deal with the player backlash
    That statement is not fair. There have been many excellent raids and each one of them are cool in their own unique way. There was a day when the game didnt have any raids! I've enjoyed watching
    the evolution of raiding and looting. Some raids were not as popular and some don't have the greatest loot or loot mechanics but they've all drawn my interest and are part of what makes they game playable all these years later. I agree with some of your opinion but they statement is just ****.
    Sarlona
    Gutter-Oowaoonah-Ute-Mauhl-Rockroll-Gutsack-Talrasha

  11. #51
    Founder xberto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Far Out Man
    Posts
    1,209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    Novelty: Give us something we haven't seen before. Somewhat the case in LoB, but a really good example of this is abbot. Sometimes things like the ascension chamber are not a bad thing. Not all raids need to be surround-and-pound. I know novelty was hard to achieve with FOT since GH has been out forever, so you get a free pass there, but very few people would complain if you threw something completely new at us.

    Bug Free: I don't care if it has a few bugs here or there. This is DDO after all. But no raid-disabling reform bugs like CITW lag or abbot asteroids. When I play this game I want to be working against monsters and puzzles at least 50% of the time, not bugs.
    Novelty? Something we haven't seen before? Thats pretty much what we've been given. All the raids have been unique.

    Bug free? yea. bugs suck
    Sarlona
    Gutter-Oowaoonah-Ute-Mauhl-Rockroll-Gutsack-Talrasha

  12. #52
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    gamertown usa
    Posts
    7,435

    Default

    I think anything that makes a raid challenging is worth its price in shards.

    I don't go to raids to have a stronger boss fight. I go to raids to need teamwork and coordination. A 12 man challenge needing everyone's participation. Don't really get too much of that now. So as long as things get more complex and difficult, I am happy.

    However, I do not want it to be a best gear and build entry required.

    With that, you come with only one possibility; boss fights that involve puzzles, switches, immunities until X is done, etc.

    What that would do is make it so when the boss is vulnerable to damage, best gear builds will have a shorter fight, whereas weaker builds and gearouts would have a harder time.

  13. #53
    Founder xberto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Far Out Man
    Posts
    1,209

    Default Loot

    Loot? for me, I like base item drop with upgradability, much like CiTW. When you use this type a system however, it would be good to see a larger selection of items rather than the dozen or so item we see drop from Citw. All player types should get opprotunity for something good to use.

    With that said, I appreciate that not all raids are them same so do whatever the hell you like
    Sarlona
    Gutter-Oowaoonah-Ute-Mauhl-Rockroll-Gutsack-Talrasha

  14. #54
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    the shroud blades being too hard? really. now that is just bs..
    The Shroud blades amp up killed the raid for months when it happened. It killed the raid permanently for many. They eventually toned it down but it was too late at that point. Too many people had moved on to different grinds or different games for it to ever recover. People still run it in private "hand me your shards" groups, but the once every 30 minutes, all welcome, train left the station long ago.

    My suggestion to devs -and others have mentioned this -piecemeal gains towards great loot is a winner. Tradeable ingredients that economies emerge around are a winner. Making the raid 90 to 100% completeable on normal by reasonably equipped players is a winner. Making it a bear on elite, but correspondingly rewarding, will earn you no scorn from the casuals, and will bring joy to the power gamers.

    Making it fun though is up to you. Hope you can!

  15. #55
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    the loot is just as relevant as Shroud weapons and people use GS in epics until they get their epic weapons.

    a 10 minute run is nothing. that's like running to CoF and stopping to shrine along the way. when LOB first came out and up until it pretty much died off, it took more than 10 minutes to even begin the raid because the group would clear, hold the instance for players and recall out to re-buff. and people complained about the run to VOD and Hound. 10 minutes is nothing.

    I haven't actually done any House C quests since the xp change, but ive heard nothing but good things about it. not a single negative thing about the xp.

    LOB actually failed because of the drop rates that were wonky and the run to the raids. if the devs had actually put in a teleporter and adjusted the drop rates the right way than LOB would have lasted longer. when CITW and FOT came out, people left LOB for better loot.
    Nah the boring clear certainly makes it harder to fil, but if the loot was more worthwhile people would run it much more often. As has been pointed out already this week GS weapons are similar enough but ML12 that only a few select builds really need Alchemical weapons: People who want a good tower shield with a red slot, people who use Khopeshes and other weapons that have poor Named selection.

    Green steel SP items are best in slot for almost any blue bar all the way to 28 and probably 30, On a Bladeforged melee conc op +150 stacking SP is the next best thing to having IDDQD (google if not understood) and 45hp items are "very good in slot" for Con challenged builds (like Elves and any build with a wide spread of needed stats).+6 to a range of skills is quite uber (UMD) that's a free +6% spell power repair or heal! And again they are ml12 and useful thoughout most of the longer part of a TR... Alchemicals are only weapons and shields and only a few of them are not bested by named weapons and shields. Finally they are much higher ML and so useful for much less of a TR.. Not to mention worse than shroud crafting process, FAR FAR less flexibility (6 combinations of 4). Alchemical is inferior to shroud crafting in almost every respect, even arguably the relative usefulness (not necessarily DPS) of the weapons WITHOUT considering the difference in minimum level. A triple pos undead beater for example.

  16. #56
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,308

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xberto View Post
    Loot? for me, I like base item drop with upgradability, much like CiTW. When you use this type a system however, it would be good to see a larger selection of items rather than the dozen or so item we see drop from Citw. All player types should get opportunity for something good to use.

    With that said, I appreciate that not all raids are them same so do whatever the hell you like
    I've never understood why they don't offer named weapons in FLAVORS... I would love to have a Warhammer with Deathnips stats, or a Pick version of Morn. A Pick version of Adaxus, or a Bastard sword version of Mountains fist. Kind of like Templars Justice (Daxe) and Retribution (Bastardsword) they could have also made a Heavy pick version and a Warhammer version "Templars Inquisitor" and "Templars Adjudicator". IMO many good named weapons should have at least an alternate variation. Epic Axe of Shadows, Epic Antique Greatsword

  17. #57
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    2,567

    Default

    No raids, which need *roles* as in kiting mobs for minutes, because if they weren't they one-shot a toon.

    No raids with escort services by player toons.

    No raid crafting with drop mechanics like in LoB.

    No raids, where you have to use cheesy methods like hanging on an edge or ladder.

    No raids without a teleporter option (free) for fast and direct access (i don't care whether it is unlockable or not, but it has to be there). While the confusing mat drops in LoB might be areason, why it is close to death, maybe the biggest problem is the way to the raid and crafting devices.

    No raids without adapted hit boxes. We have so many clickables now, auto attack has become more and more important for melees. Fighting Lolth's Emanation is tedious, not challenging. To give LoB credit, this guy is challenging how it should be, FoT is challenging, how it should be, Harry is challenging, how it should be. But well, since you guys were so nice and invalidated running CiTW by handing out the raider's boxes I don't care about that raid any more, so *shrug*.

    Shroud, Plane of Night and Fall of Truth are my favorite raids. FoT has en excellent loot system, Shroud got the probably best crafting system you ever invented. And VoN/Plane of Night got the best diverse tasks for 12 people. The xp are the icing. The loot still viable.

    More raids like Shroud regarding crafting, FoT regarding loot system, VoN regarding task diversity and coordination. Abbot could be in there as well, BUT the learning curve seems too steep, then it is all about accuracy in there and a little lag can be a fail. Let alone the duty for one toon standing at the edge of the platform and waiting for Inferno! call. And get rid of things like falling out of the sky onto the marketplace or being ported out of the raid. But I guess that is nothing you want to revive anyways.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 01-06-2014 at 05:44 PM.
    Characters on Orien:
    Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus

  18. #58
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    4,901

    Default

    Shroud has the best crafting system in any game I have ever played.
    WHy turbine doesnt replicate that is beyond me.

  19. #59
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,786

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    I'd also like to add:

    -Once flagging is completed, the raid should be easily accessible by a teleporter (without requiring walking for 10-30 minutes through an explorer zone like HoX and LoB). Long walks are really annoying for setting up a group properly.
    So much this. First time doing the raid? Fine - the player actually has to make the slog to the entrance. Once you've made it to the entrance, though, give us a way to get back quickly. Give us MORE reasons to want to run the raid again, not FEWER. (That, or make the loot so d*mned good that we don't mind doing the slog each time)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  20. #60
    Community Member Snapdragoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    460

    Default

    I agree with the idea of awesome new raids.

    I DISAGREE with the OP's stuck up disposition towards the majority of players. wanting their pixel to be just a little bigger and little shinier then others so they can wave there Epeen.

    with difficulty should scale progress. not loot. loot should be the same in the end, but progress should be different per difficulty. an example would be chests in the shroud as it is now, maybe even more chests given out at higher diffs. 2 chests per area on norm, 4 per area on hard, 6 per area on elite.

    a harder difficulty should ALWAYS be encouraged and rewarded, but NEVER forced.

Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload