Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 186
  1. #21
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    If anything, those " more serious " gamers are the ones that are leaving, not new folks or newbs.
    Not everything should be catered for one group or another but there should be something to do or aspire to for both sides of the spectrum.
    There is no such thing as "some are excluded because ... ".


    So those that try harder to make their toons or play better or want to get most of their spare time are " more addicted ". Lol

    Hope we all get more content or fun this year, but as the troll said, it's gonna be " on farm status " two days later anyway.
    "I pay subscription, so gimme my elite loot now".
    That is exactly what I said, the game should be made to work for everyone. I think shroud and FOT are 2 examples where they did that.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  2. #22
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    One of the reasons U11 was a bucket of fail was because it was way to catered for the 1%. LOB on Normal was too hard compared to what the players had seen before (Hard was fine for hard, Epic was supposed to be nuts so whatever, that was fine). It's not good to leave the vast majority of your players with noghint to do.

    MoTU was a big old easy-button that made everything available to everybody. Sure everyone could run everything and talor the difficulty to what they could handle (with that said at first EH was too easy, EE too much but not by a lot). But . . . it gave you nothing to aspire to.

    I started when F2P launched. I remember getting my arse kicked so much in Amrath that it made me re-think and rebuild. Didn't go back for a few months . . . then after that epics. But getting my arse kicked gave me a reason to get better.

    Some time the porridge is too hot, sometimes too cold. The moral of this story is always steal the porridge from a child.

  3. #23
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    corrected. nobody runs lob ANYMORE because (surprise) the rewards suck and it's too easy. that's what needs to change.



    Shroud was popular because it had good rewards (see a pattern emerging?). It suffered from the ailment of having poorly scaling rewards, being run only on normal difficulty for years, this was a problem that was recognized and which was changed in later updates. FOT is popular because it's the latest raid, and one of only two designed from ground-up for epic levels, not because it's the best raid. in the same sense that people don't run tempest spine or titan any more. don't mistake a paucity of options for a good raid.


    Very few people ran LOB even at the height of it's popularity, which in turn was brief. People still run TS all the time because at level it has great XP, and people still run both epic and heroic Chrono (though I'm not sure why since I personally don't use any loot from it anymore and the XP isn't great) at least moderately often, far more than LOB. I think Abbot would be more popular if it wasn't so damned horrible to flag for on top of being a difficult raid (at level at least). Shroud is probably the most popular raid ever because a) it's accessible b) it has great loot c) you can work towards that loot and achieve progress. It's popularity dropped dramatically when they made the blades overly brutal due it it being too hard for too many people. Despite people like you wanting this (because it makes you feel elite) it makes the raid unpopular (meaning for the majority, you know... non-elite) which is inherently a bad thing.

    So to make this a successful raid it needs (IMO):
    a) decent XP, better than comparable non-raid quests at level and especially below it's level
    b) good loot (better than lootgen at level or even maybe a couple levels higher) that's achievable by the MAJORITY of players. Giving an advantage to elite is a good thing I agree, but it needs to be more like shroud (still achievable but takes a little longer) or FoT than like LOB where the rewards for different tiers we extreme enough for most people not to bother unless they could run elite (which YOU don't want everyone to be able to do)
    c) replayability. Make it fun, not horrible. Make enough variance in loot to be worth repeating often, not just til you get the one item you need. Avoid protection scenarios, etc.
    d) accessibility. Don't make us re-flag every time, or make us travel half way across hell, or make us gather 10 rare random drop items, that only drop in awful quests, etc
    e) challenge. Don't make it a snooze fest, but also don't make it impossible for anyone but the top 5%, or nobody will run it.

  4. #24
    2015 DDO Players Council
    Axel's DDO Channel
    axel15810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    East Coast, USA
    Posts
    2,910

    Default

    I LOVE the system that Fall of Truth has given us. It makes the loot attainable but still rewards running higher difficulties by giving them the loot faster.

    From the new raids I'd like to see -

    - Upgradable loot similar to Shroud or Fall of Truth

    - No long runs to the quest like in the Lord of Blades or Hound or Vision of Destruction, UNLESS this run length adds substantially to the XP given.

    - Please keep the raid a reasonable length. Caught in the Web is much too long. The raid needs to be completable by the average group in 40 minutes or less. 30 minutes is the ideal number in my opinion.

    - Give us loot that is actually desired. Don't powerlevel everything we already have into obselesence but give us a good incentive to run the raid. There needs to be a balance. I feel the loot is fall of truth is a bit too weak, aside from the greatsword.

    - Give us more loot diversity, make the loot creative. I'd personally like to see more weapon types. Why is all the best loot always the same few weapon types? How about some greatclubs, clubs, warhammers, mauls, kukris, great crossbows? Please no more named greatswords.

    Click the banner above to get to my DDO youtube channel

  5. #25
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    One other thing devs . . . if we see either of these in the new raid I will track you down and fill your living room with dead fish . . .

    - SP draining - like we have in CiTW. This is such ******** it's not funny.

    - Saves de-buffing - like we have in FoT.

    - Mobs that explode for thousands of points of damage if killed in melee - FoT "traps."


    Whoever came up with those ideas should be fired.

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    At Turbine HQ suggesting what to nerf next.
    Posts
    1,469

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    LOLz . . . we all know this raid will be beaten the first night of release and solo'd within a week on a monkcher.

    Turbine hasn't made a good raid since 2010.
    Come on now, you know monks, it will be soloed ee day one by a monkcher. Both of them.
    Teth - Revenants

    Babysittin Francine so he dont die 24/7. I used to be good at this game.

  7. #27
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    Difficulty: The raid should not be easily completable on launch. Epic LoB required weeks to months before it began to be widely and reliably completable. In fact it never really reached the stage of shroud-proportions of being widely puggable until post-MOTU when everyone became OP from a relative standpoint. This was not because the devs nerfed it to be easier, but because the player base learned from their mistakes and developed better strategies to achieve completion. FOT and CITW both suffered greatly from this problem in that they were being taken down by underleveled, underpowered, undergeared toons without regard to party composition on the day of launch. FOT was particularly bad, with people ransacking the quest using 8x raid timer bypasses for the first few weeks until boom was fixed because it was just that ridiculously easy. I know in the past there has been a concern that if a raid is too difficult, nobody will want to run it. First, this problem can be mitigated by the tiered difficulty system, and the loot system described above. Secondly, hard is not a bad thing. This is where the staying power of your player base comes from. Hard raids unite players, requiring cooperation and regular contact with each other to repeatedly and reliably accomplish difficult feats. This builds inter-player relationships that leads to player retention. Easy raids don't require anything, and are quickly boring and do not invest the player base.

    Make Coordination and Skill-Specific Roles Required: This is the biggest shortcoming of not just post U13 raids, but all post U13 quests. In Epic LoB, certain roles needed to be filled by certain classes/builds. This not only increased the difficulty, but it did so in a way that wasn't utterly mind-numbing. Players needed to not only know the raid, but also know how to WORK AS PART OF A TEAM to fill an important role. This also creates a great source of replay value, once players master a certain role, for example tank in epic lob, they can experience the raid from another perspective such as CC caster, or healer, or kiter, each time having to spend lots of time and maybe money on the game to create or modify a character to these roles. FOT took us back slightly with some role-specific action required (suddenly we needed at least 1 tank and at least 1 healer!), however most post-U13 content is otherwise just a matter of pick-up whoever and roll in there with whatever, doing whatever. It doesn't even matter what the leader does to try and coordinate party action now.

    The biggest problem we face is that 'Failure is not an option.' And really, in this game, it is not in the slightest. When you fail a raid, people get ****ED. And when they get ****ed, that's when they leave the group at best and quit the game at worst, because of how frustrating things can be. They may also squelch other players for no good reason, thus further dividing the community more. There is little sense of unity in the pug community. It's all 'do it right the first time or get lost'. I'm not sure about skill-specific things in raids, I mean, it doesn't really work that well in quests if you think about it real good. If it worked well in quests, that would mean traps would be more deadly, and you would REALLY need a rogue unless you wanted to get stuck in the quest.

    I have to admit, im eager to see these new raids come out, but im not too hopeful. I don't like some of the mechanics that raids use.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  8. #28
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xTethx View Post
    Come on now, you know monks, it will be soloed ee day one by a monkcher. Both of them.
    See . . . it depends on how long they are up on beta. If it's on lamania for 3 weeks then yes, some Monkcher will solo them on Day 1.

  9. #29
    Uber Completionist
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    796

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Raids should be easy(ish) on Normal, then go up the scale as you hit elite.
    Yes, as long as the reward really scales as well

  10. #30
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    2,311

    Default New raids

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Thanks for your feedback on the upcoming raids! We still have a lot to say about them, and expect to read a lot more feedback in the coming weeks.

    That said, we will confirm that neither of the Update 21 Raids involves escorting anything or anyone.
    I wonder if they will have new "end-game" Weapons that require Comms like the last two raids. It would be nice actually if all of the old raids were updated to give Comms as well...and had all of their epic gear updated to use Comms and be automatically "epified" and to lose the "shard, scroll" system.
    Last edited by Battlehawke; 01-06-2014 at 02:19 PM.
    The Best Server: Gallhanda

    Looking for a great guild? Check Out Our Guild: http://www.oldtimersguild.com/vb/forum.php

    Looking for some good builds to play? https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...for-Characters

  11. #31
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    One other thing devs . . . if we see either of these in the new raid I will track you down and fill your living room with dead fish . . .

    - SP draining - like we have in CiTW. This is such ******** it's not funny.

    - Saves de-buffing - like we have in FoT.

    - Mobs that explode for thousands of points of damage if killed in melee - FoT "traps."


    Whoever came up with those ideas should be fired.
    Twice in FOT I took huge damage and died. In combat it said I killed myself. Is the trap you are referring to? I assumed it was colors of the queen but perhaps it was this trap you are referring to.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  12. #32
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,132

    Default

    Please NO MORE ARENA BEAT DOWNS... hate all of these FoT, LoB, VoD unless they have a skill portion (Abbot) that gives them variety and breaks up the monotony.

    I'd like to see a return to the VON5-6 format... great XP, uber loot that takes years to finally build = the most popular and fastest filling raid in the game to this day. Everyone runs it, even casual players seem to have no compunction against joining them.

    Seriously there is no raid right now that fills even half as fast as a VON5-6... I filled one the other day in 8 or 10 minutes at 3am! It has roughly 130k XP for part 5 and another 35-ish K for part 6, it has Epic Sword of Shadows and some lesser interest in Red dragon scale shard, and some minor interest in the Delving boots... all the other loot is extremely obsolete.

    They could revamp Titan which is easilly the least run raid in the game by miles, just put 2 pieces of uber loot in it that takes several pieces to craft/upgrade, make a teleporter to the pre-raid entrance, and give the pre-raid 150k and the titan portion 50k (it's longer than Velah) and tweak the Titan part so that there's something for the other 8 people to do (I suggest doorways that open up randomly that let in drones that the party needs to block up and keep from flooding the chamber with mobs).

    Honorable mention: Abbot, make at least another raid or two that reward good twitch skills... I'm not asking for all future raids to do this, just like to see 2 or 3... Also buff up Abbot by Epic'ing it instead of 3 barrel cove (or after) give it one uber item like eSoS (I suggest buffing Litanny Of the dead slightly and giving it upgradable tiers... Including a final tier upgrade that gives an option for casters or melee or ranged. Something like "choose your spell lore (Elements, Light, Force lore 20%) or Profane Double Shot/Strike 4%, Profane Seeker 6". Needless to say give Abbot about 80k XP on Epic.

    Shroud and VON5-6 should be your way forward... not because of nostalgia but because those are the most successful and long term popular raids in the game. MOSTLY because of powerfull loot that takes a good bit of time to get. But also because they are are involving and challenging and diverse.

    LOB and MA missed the mark because their loot was quickly obsoleted, because it inflexible and rigid and not great to begin with. It also makes the same mistake that CitW makes... there's only weapons! (well and shields). Still if a reasonable caster stick could be crafted with Alchemical (red slots instead of static Spell power 90's) it would be much more popular. To this day Shroud is still run because of 150 SP and 45 HP items... not because of the weapons... but because there's 1 or 2 items that are still best in slot for some builds.
    *Disclaimer: All statements are generalized without boging down in minutia. Assuming that there are ALWAYS exceptions that test the rule, variations, and un-stated details may be omitted for brevity. These can be assumed to be understood; without bloating my posts with preemptive coverass. [*] Seal[*] Scroll[*] Shard[*] Base Item - eSoS >200 runs

  13. #33
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Twice in FOT I took huge damage and died. In combat it said I killed myself. Is the trap you are referring to? I assumed it was colors of the queen but perhaps it was this trap you are referring to.
    It happens when trash dies under some circumstances, pretty much making killing the trash in melee a suicide mission.

  14. #34
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Alt-pletionist
    IronClan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    and had all of their epic gear updated to use Comms and be automatically "epified" and to lose the "shard, scroll" system.
    The shard, seal and scroll system was a blazing success... As evidenced by eSoS and VON5-6 being the most popular raid in the game now...

    On the other hand FOT and CITW are run MUCH MUCH less often merely a few months after they were released... This mechanic is no where NEAR as successful... I believe that a huge majority of players get their FoT/CitW item and stop caring about upgrading it very much... Whereas VON5-6 you get a real serious upgrade by getting the seal and shard. I would point to how few are running CitW after they got their base items in a reward box... Yet FOT is not more popular than before the raiders box... this clearly implies that players are not that motived by the upgrade mechanic to keep running the raids to get comms.

    Some rewards should take time... some grind is vital to the longevity of the game... Look at EN EH and EE loot versions. This mechanic has dramatically lowered player retention... people buy the EH or EE version on the first day the new quests come out and NEVER RUN THE CONTENT AT ALL or run it once and done (I personally have done this multiple times)... then a few days later they say "ho hum" and go back into hybernation until the next update. We've seen this in the DDOracle login data. Within 2 weeks of Epic Gianthold most of the influx of increased player activity had already attrited. Pre-MOTU DDO had about 40% more player activity during a pre-release doldrum, than the last expansion had right before it came out. Sellable Epic loot has been a disaster for the game, and the tiered upgrade raid loot has not kept players running the raids either... Otherwise all those raiders reward boxes would have lead to AT LEAST a hefty spike in FOT runs, which I did not see... in fact it seems to be declining in popularity.

    I hope the Dev's aren't done with this thread yet. Because I'd dearly like them to read the above, because from my perspective as a part casual part power gamer who runs every raid, I think they could use a rethink on at least raid loot if not how easy (and sellable) Epic named items are..
    *Disclaimer: All statements are generalized without boging down in minutia. Assuming that there are ALWAYS exceptions that test the rule, variations, and un-stated details may be omitted for brevity. These can be assumed to be understood; without bloating my posts with preemptive coverass. [*] Seal[*] Scroll[*] Shard[*] Base Item - eSoS >200 runs

  15. #35
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    4,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    Very few people ran LOB even at the height of it's popularity, which in turn was brief. People still run TS all the time because at level it has great XP, and people still run both epic and heroic Chrono (though I'm not sure why since I personally don't use any loot from it anymore and the XP isn't great) at least moderately often, far more than LOB.
    Because you dont have to flag for chrono and its right next to ship, lob at least 10 min to get there.

    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    The shard, seal and scroll system was a blazing success... As evidenced by eSoS and VON5-6 being the most popular raid in the game now...

    And great xp.

  16. #36
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    2,311

    Default nice

    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    The shard, seal and scroll system was a blazing success... As evidenced by eSoS and VON5-6 being the most popular raid in the game now...

    On the other hand FOT and CITW are run MUCH MUCH less often merely a few months after they were released... This mechanic is no where NEAR as successful... I believe that a huge majority of players get their FoT/CitW item and stop caring about upgrading it very much... Whereas VON5-6 you get a real serious upgrade by getting the seal and shard. I would point to how few are running CitW after they got their base items in a reward box... Yet FOT is not more popular than before the raiders box... this clearly implies that players are not that motived by the upgrade mechanic to keep running the raids to get comms.

    Some rewards should take time... some grind is vital to the longevity of the game... Look at EN EH and EE loot versions. This mechanic has dramatically lowered player retention... people buy the EH or EE version on the first day the new quests come out and NEVER RUN THE CONTENT AT ALL or run it once and done (I personally have done this multiple times)... then a few days later they say "ho hum" and go back into hybernation until the next update. We've seen this in the DDOracle login data. Within 2 weeks of Epic Gianthold most of the influx of increased player activity had already attrited. Pre-MOTU DDO had about 40% more player activity during a pre-release doldrum, than the last expansion had right before it came out. Sellable Epic loot has been a disaster for the game, and the tiered upgrade raid loot has not kept players running the raids either... Otherwise all those raiders reward boxes would have lead to AT LEAST a hefty spike in FOT runs, which I did not see... in fact it seems to be declining in popularity.

    I hope the Dev's aren't done with this thread yet. Because I'd dearly like them to read the above, because from my perspective as a part casual part power gamer who runs every raid, I think they could use a rethink on at least raid loot if not how easy (and sellable) Epic named items are..
    I'd love to hear from them too. I also understand what you are saying. The newer system is much better for the casual player unfortunately. The old system can be a bit disappointing to them. As far as Von 5/6 being run more often. Well, you get 150k xp for 20-30 minutes as opposed to 50k for 45 mins to an hour in citw. FOT is 50k for 20 minutes. Why would anyone run CITW more than once anymore? It makes sense and has nothing to do with the loot system.
    The Best Server: Gallhanda

    Looking for a great guild? Check Out Our Guild: http://www.oldtimersguild.com/vb/forum.php

    Looking for some good builds to play? https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...for-Characters

  17. #37
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Because you dont have to flag for chrono and its right next to ship, lob at least 10 min to get there.
    Why LOB is fail . . .

    - Loot is out-dated dreck
    - 10 minutes in an explorer area suck
    - Flaggin quests suck and give terrible XP

    The loot is the biggest issue, if the loot were still relevant people would still run this.

  18. #38
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Thelanis
    Posts
    4,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Why LOB is fail . . .


    - Flaggin quests suck and give terrible XP

    The loot is the biggest issue, if the loot were still relevant people would still run this.
    Actually they give great xp now.

  19. #39
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    Actually they give great xp now.
    Too little too late. With the new curve you're capped way before getting to them.

  20. #40
    Pirate Hero
    2015 DDO Players Council
    RedOrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    I'll just say this: IF you, Turbine, are including upgradable items in these raids, do not, I repeat DO NOT, require cov's to upgrade them.
    I know cov's are your new shinies, but for all that is holy STAY AWAY from them. It will kill the loot and therefor the raids even before they leave Lamannia.

    Greetz,
    Red Orm

Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload