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  1. #1
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Default Hate gen and mob behavior - is this new or did I simply not notice before?

    From time to time I do use hires for healing, especially when soloing low level content and not having ample of UMD ready on melee builds. Since the last update series, I encountered some unusual mob behavior I did not notice so far (which might be due to the fact that I just now started to re-TR my toons). Whenever I run up on mobs with my melee and do one hit or the other, the mobs that where running against me suddenly stop fighting with me but simply run over to my hire and start hitting her or him. I encountered this behavior in several quests and wildernesses on lv. 1-7 so far since U19.1 and never have noticed this before.

    Here some short notices: Human Fighter (10th life) current lv. 7, Kensai w/o any special gear (for lower levels, like Abishai) and speced to use a bastard sword and shield. I plan to overhaul the build upon reaching lv. 20 or to go into the next heroic TR for completionist, so I did not give much care to any special builds, feats, or whatever, as long as I am completely self sufficient upon lv. 12+. Second toon was a test Human Barb I leveled until lv. 3 with the Occult Slayer enhancement path. Both melees encountered the same problem. They ran against their enemies, hit them, and the mobs started to run against the hire. This kind of odd mob behavior is encountered independently from the hire setting to attack or defend.

    Please help me check: Is this WAI or can I file in a bug report?

  2. #2
    Community Member Nayus's Avatar
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    Sometimes monsters simply RUN AWAY from me and don't see to come back unless I MM them and even then sometimes it doesn't work. Playing a Wizard, I originally suspected they were going after my pet skeleton so I tried not summoning it but it persisted.

    Not exactly a problem, I'd say xD

  3. #3
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    Sometimes monsters simply RUN AWAY from me and don't see to come back unless I MM them and even then sometimes it doesn't work. Playing a Wizard, I originally suspected they were going after my pet skeleton so I tried not summoning it but it persisted.

    Not exactly a problem, I'd say xD
    With squishy hires this is actually a big problem, imho. as long as the toon has his personal fear aura, zerging is a breeze. But as long as anybody wants to use hires, mobs abandoning the damage dealer and going actively after the hire is annoying at best and -5% XP and a dead hire at worst.

  4. #4
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    This has been happening a long, long time if you ask me.

    Way back when, as a cleric I could just stand in the back and heal and not get aggro, Turbine changed it at least two years ago. All of a sudden, I took aggro even though I did nothing.

    Maybe I just noticed it more than others.

    One quest that does it all the time, is Bringing the Light. If you stand there, the first two guys will automatically attack the characters at the door doing nothing and not whoever is swinging the axe.
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  5. #5
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Healing does seem to cause aggro, and a heal spell will be greater than your damage at lower levels. Dont know how much healing causes aggro, but it seems to be enough at times.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  6. #6
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    wonder if an invis clickie would work on a healing hire?

  7. #7
    Community Member Rykka's Avatar
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    I've only been playing for 4 months but that sums up my observation on monster AI. Specifically, melee monsters b-line for non-melee PCs and hires. Even scoring a nice crit as they blow by my melee doesn't slow them down. However dropping AOE like cleave will usually refocus several of them on me and even just starting combat with a bow in hand seems to flip an AI switch so they target me first. YMMV.

  8. #8
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    From time to time I do use hires for healing, especially when soloing low level content and not having ample of UMD ready on melee builds. Since the last update series, I encountered some unusual mob behavior I did not notice so far (which might be due to the fact that I just now started to re-TR my toons). Whenever I run up on mobs with my melee and do one hit or the other, the mobs that where running against me suddenly stop fighting with me but simply run over to my hire and start hitting her or him. I encountered this behavior in several quests and wildernesses on lv. 1-7 so far since U19.1 and never have noticed this before.

    Here some short notices: Human Fighter (10th life) current lv. 7, Kensai w/o any special gear (for lower levels, like Abishai) and speced to use a bastard sword and shield. I plan to overhaul the build upon reaching lv. 20 or to go into the next heroic TR for completionist, so I did not give much care to any special builds, feats, or whatever, as long as I am completely self sufficient upon lv. 12+. Second toon was a test Human Barb I leveled until lv. 3 with the Occult Slayer enhancement path. Both melees encountered the same problem. They ran against their enemies, hit them, and the mobs started to run against the hire. This kind of odd mob behavior is encountered independently from the hire setting to attack or defend.

    Please help me check: Is this WAI or can I file in a bug report?
    i was hoping someone else was noticing this. mob agro on hires seems to have gotten worse lately. ive had a hire parked all the way down the hall and around the corner, open the door and mobs run straight to the hire. its almost like a player using ranged weapons in the back of the group and grabbing the mob agro while everyone runs up to a mob only to just run right past them to the ranged player. mobs should be attacking who they see first or potentially the most threat, not automatically attacking hires and especially attacking hires who are parked at a long distance from the mobs.
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    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

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  9. #9
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    i was hoping someone else was noticing this. mob agro on hires seems to have gotten worse lately. ive had a hire parked all the way down the hall and around the corner, open the door and mobs run straight to the hire. its almost like a player using ranged weapons in the back of the group and grabbing the mob agro while everyone runs up to a mob only to just run right past them to the ranged player. mobs should be attacking who they see first or potentially the most threat, not automatically attacking hires and especially attacking hires who are parked at a long distance from the mobs.
    It seems that the hires have a negative stealth value, since what you describe has happened to me too. The mobs start ignoring the hire as soon as i hit them though.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

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  11. #11
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Mobs target divines first, pretty much in all cases.
    Theyre starting to get smarter. Soon enough they will take over the game.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  12. #12
    Community Member Razor_Wit's Avatar
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    I believe this change occurred when they updated the mob aggro so that when the mob cannot reach/do damage to a player their aggro will adjust to the next closest player/party member. In that change I feel that the devs also adapted the mob AI to do what smart players have done from the beginning: first enemy mobs to be attacked are healers and casters. If they cannot effectively combat a player, they adapt and move to one they can.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Nayus's Avatar
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    By the way, I remember a dev saying they programmed monsters to target casters first, that's likely why they're targetting your divine hirelings. Monsters also have an improved aggro management that makes them switch targets whenever they can't reach their current one or can't seem to actually kill it, I wouldn't be surprised if they targetted a divine healing their foes.

  14. #14
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    By the way, I remember a dev saying they programmed monsters to target casters first, that's likely why they're targetting your divine hirelings. Monsters also have an improved aggro management that makes them switch targets whenever they can't reach their current one or can't seem to actually kill it, I wouldn't be surprised if they targetted a divine healing their foes.
    This happen with bosses on a tank?

  15. #15
    Community Member Sianys's Avatar
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    Oh good, so it's not just me. Time to adjust tactics and move on.
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  16. #16
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    The aggro mechanic leaves somewhat to be desired. Twice now, I've encountered it where mobs will bypass any and all toons hitting them, and zero in on someone in the back of the pack, doing nothing. On one, it was my rogue, stealthed, literally hiding behind rocks. Literally all the mobs ran past everyone else to get at my rogue. The other people in the PUG were utterly dumbfounded by it.

    The fact was, we had see it once already where the mobs bypassed the rest of the group to go after someone else...consistently...in a single quest.

    So, there is an issue with aggro.

  17. #17
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    It's WAI. They go after your healer. Just like you would. Archers attack rogues to take them out of stealth and wizards will spam hold on melee.
    If you're self sufficient enough best bet is to park your hire at the beginning and only call them when needed. Then park em again and repeat.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Theyre starting to get smarter. Soon enough they will take over the game.
    One can hope.

  19. #19
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    It's WAI. They go after your healer. Just like you would. Archers attack rogues to take them out of stealth and wizards will spam hold on melee.
    If you're self sufficient enough best bet is to park your hire at the beginning and only call them when needed. Then park em again and repeat.
    sure if you only had a cleric hire, but whats that got to say about the other hires? ive had mobs run past me attacking my rogue hire a lot with a cleric hire at the beginning of the quest and I just call him to disable traps.

    ive never seen archers specifically target anyone in stealth before either when others are not in stealth. this thread isn't about being self sufficient or not and summoning hires when you need them. its about a broken mob agro that specifically goes after hires, even if you start attacking the mobs first or mobs only see you before the hires.
    Gary Gygax quotes

    The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience.

    There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you are involved in, whether its a fantasy game, the Wild West, secret agents or whatever else. You get to sort of vicariously experience those things.

    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

    The secret we should never let the game masters know is that they don't need any rules.

  20. #20
    Community Member LazarusPossum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayus View Post
    By the way, I remember a dev saying they programmed monsters to target casters first
    I think they also programmed hires to stand in lava first.
    "Why is stuff so hard?" - William Murderface

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