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  1. #1
    Community Member deathkeeper's Avatar
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    Unhappy The old days of DDO

    I have been playing DDO for 8 years an I am less then happy about where the game is going. I miss the days when it took some talent and teamwork to finish a quest. I remember running STK and fighting the boss and only finish it with the proper group and teamwork. That was back in the day when soloing or zerging was almost impossible. No store to buy things to help you finish a quest. ie. rogue to do locks or traps. I realize it is all about money but quit changing the original theme.

    Anyone else miss the old days?

    Doc

  2. #2
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say the old days were perfect, but I do miss 09-10 era of DDO. Even '11 wasn't that bad. I haven't been in a group that actually pauses longer than equipping their VOM whenever approaching what used to be tough encounters. I miss the time when teamwork was the norm in groups, not 6 man soloists groups. I miss challenging content from levels 1-20. I miss focusing on a real D&D feel of quests. I miss when being a TR actually meant something. I miss groups that played more for the fun and adventure than about worrying how long its taking them to cap. I miss feeling the rush of a group going downhill in a quest or raid and than that feeling you get when you get the group back on their feet. I miss the good possibility of failing in a quest or raid. I miss a full lfm in any level range at any time of day listing a variety of quests, including unpopular ones.

  3. #3
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    I miss aspects of the olden days... but not all of it.
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  4. #4
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathkeeper View Post
    I have been playing DDO for 8 years an I am less then happy about where the game is going. I miss the days when it took some talent and teamwork to finish a quest. I remember running STK and fighting the boss and only finish it with the proper group and teamwork. That was back in the day when soloing or zerging was almost impossible. No store to buy things to help you finish a quest. ie. rogue to do locks or traps. I realize it is all about money but quit changing the original theme.

    Anyone else miss the old days?

    Doc
    YUP
    This game is hitting it's lowest point in every aspect. Period.


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  5. #5
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    Not at all.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    I miss when you all would hjeal meh.

  7. #7
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Some things I miss, some things I don't.

    Lessons learned that were good and lessons ignored that have irritated most.

    I don't long for the old days, but I do remember them fondly.

    One such being, a heck of a lot less asphats on the forums back then, let alone the forums were organized better.

  8. #8
    Community Member waryJerry's Avatar
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    People who complain about not having fun anymore in this game ought to stop playing or at least take a break from it. It's pretty much that simple.

  9. #9
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waryJerry View Post
    People who complain about not having fun anymore in this game ought to stop playing or at least take a break from it. It's pretty much that simple.
    And give me your stuff.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathkeeper View Post
    ... I miss the days when it took some talent and teamwork to finish a quest. I remember running STK and fighting the boss and only finish it with the proper group and teamwork. That was back in the day when soloing or zerging was almost impossible.
    ...
    Doc
    Not true. Group was never required (sans quests that needed pulling levers) and zerging started more or less on day 1.

    Talent, yes. But not other things.

    Oh, and one more thing. When people talk about old days, they only remember the good things. You forgot about that "wait for 30+ mins" to get that proper group for STK or "we don't need another Rogue, we have one".

  11. #11
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    You mean not being able to complete (or try to complete) quests without a perfect group?

    No.



    However, I do miss actually running STK "With" a group.


    The game is much better now than before.

    Unfortunately, the players have become much more unfriendly.

    And FTP killed certain quests altogether.


    Not sure why quests like Stormcleave never get PUGed anymore though...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  12. #12
    Community Member LongshotBro's Avatar
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    Default hmmm

    I too have played DDO for a long time, since 2006. So i certainly remember the old days. The mention of STK back in the day got me thinking though. Maybe it doesn't have the same allure simply because we have been playing for that long. Back then, everyone would cram into a corner and shield block so the wizard could spam magic missile at the STK boss. But after playing for 7 years, we've gotten so much better at the game and also accumulated resources. Let's say that STK boss was still practically invulnerable to everything but MM. Well now that i know that, it would not be difficult to get passable UMD for a non-spellcaster to use a wand on the boss for instance.

    I've maintained my enjoyment of this game but taking frequent breaks, so that when i return there are some new things to see and do. I applaud the grinders for the intensity and effort put forth but that's not my style and as a result, i very rarely have many criticisms such as this.

    Here's an example: i just recently got back into a range where i can run epic stuff. I tried out that Sable quest and found it to be quite entertaining, challenging, adventuresome and fun. I suppose if i were to run it ad nauseum though, it would get repetitive and incredibly easy.

    Likewise, while I love my guild and mates, i infrequently raid with them because i like to do different things as much as possible. Perhaps it is a function of my old school PnP days, where repeating a quest is not even in the lexicon.

    Now, i certainly don't pretend to be any sort of expert on DDO or MMOs in general, but it seems to me that taking breaks is a good way to go about things. That's one of the things about MMOs that i enjoy actually, that I can go back even years later and my character is still there, sometimes even with nifty gifts that i didn't even know about.

    i hope that everyone can find a way to enjoy DDO because it's a really great game with some unique features. That being said, i cannot envision myself exclusively playing this MMO, because frankly it's just not feasible for developers to generate content fast enough to sate the desires of all gamers.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waryJerry View Post
    People who complain about not having fun anymore in this game ought to stop playing or at least take a break from it. It's pretty much that simple.
    Theres a huge gray area between the extremes of like and dislike that most players are now mired in. If it really was as simple as you say, you wouldn't have this game to play.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #14
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongshotBro View Post
    I too have played DDO for a long time, since 2006. So i certainly remember the old days. The mention of STK back in the day got me thinking though. Maybe it doesn't have the same allure simply because we have been playing for that long. Back then, everyone would cram into a corner and shield block so the wizard could spam magic missile at the STK boss. But after playing for 7 years, we've gotten so much better at the game and also accumulated resources. Let's say that STK boss was still practically invulnerable to everything but MM. Well now that i know that, it would not be difficult to get passable UMD for a non-spellcaster to use a wand on the boss for instance.
    It is a problem with Power Creep. It is well-known in the realms of any MMO.

    Back at '06, the boss had a really high adamantine DR, and adamantine weapons were rare, even for endgame players. The magic missile method was because it was the most SP-efficient spell at the time, and the melees would not have enough raw power to overcome the boss DR without special weaponry. And there was also the risk of the boss falling into the water and reseting back to full life (more a bug than a feature, IMO).

    They not only lowered the DR of the boss currently to lower values, but the current average level 5 character is much more powerful than the level 5 character in '06. New feats, new enhancements, new item enchantments, possibility of crafting, better named low level gear (Khortos gear is AMAZING compared to old goodblade's rewards), etc. So, it is no surprise that it is a lot easier to solo this fight than before.

    Now, regarding the nostalgia, I agree with Menmir. I miss some aspects of the past, but there is no way that I would like that everything change back to the way it was before.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

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  15. #15
    Community Member Cogdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    It is a problem with Power Creep. It is well-known in the realms of any MMO.

    Back at '06, the boss had a really high adamantine DR, and adamantine weapons were rare, even for endgame players. The magic missile method was because it was the most SP-efficient spell at the time, and the melees would not have enough raw power to overcome the boss DR without special weaponry. And there was also the risk of the boss falling into the water and reseting back to full life (more a bug than a feature, IMO).

    They not only lowered the DR of the boss currently to lower values, but the current average level 5 character is much more powerful than the level 5 character in '06. New feats, new enhancements, new item enchantments, possibility of crafting, better named low level gear (Khortos gear is AMAZING compared to old goodblade's rewards), etc. So, it is no surprise that it is a lot easier to solo this fight than before.

    Now, regarding the nostalgia, I agree with Menmir. I miss some aspects of the past, but there is no way that I would like that everything change back to the way it was before.
    Memnir and Nibel both nailed it well.

    DDO was a different animal back then, but so were the players. If it hadnt been for the changes to DDO, there wouldnt be a game now, we all know that. The playerbase was so minimal, there is no way a gaming company would have kept DDO alive in todays economical climate.

    Having said all this, I too long for several aspects of the original DDO, but if I give it some deeper thought, those are really aspects of DnD, what I can only find in a tabletop game nowadays.

    Unfortunately, the power creep, the godlike loot and quest design...well they dont bring up the good old dnd days in me anymore. I feel a bit sorry about that, but I do wish all of you, who still play, a lot of fun!

    Cogdoc

  16. #16
    Community Member SlipperyPete's Avatar
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    I miss the old days quiet bit. And too be quiet honest the game has simply become too complex for my taste. Crafting, green steel, epic items and the hundreds of shards, scrolls, etc the many ingredients you need for these...and the grinding. The pay to win. And Jerry not doing the podcast anymore. Playing thru the super secret future and the F2P pug hell.

    You almost need spreadsheet and a notebook to keep track of where you're at with all the above. That's not fun to me, that's bordering on work. I don't play much however, every once in awhile I'll buy a month here and there until I remember why I stopped playing.

    To those that still enjoy. salute'.
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  17. #17
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    I miss those days too.

    Now there's a point to make regarding how we handled quests at that time...

    The XP system in place before Retarded Streak was introduced made us go in quests way over the highest level of the party. And when Gianthold came we all rushed in it with our LVL 7/8 characters to maximize the XP earning.

    That system encouraged grouping, since it was far easier to enter a quest 4 or 5 level higher than the highest character in the party with a full group than soloing it. ( and it added the important people, like a healer, a trapmonkey, an arcane, a chew toy for mobs, ... )

    There's also been a shift in how players play, at that time we all would happily spend hours in a quest, use tactics, have fun... Nowadays, it's enter, reach end as fast as possible, rinse, repeat.
    To take the STK example everybody uses, people were going there as soon as they went through WW and were able to enter the Market ( usually they were just LVL 2 or 3 at that time, since they skipped all the side stuff ), and it was taking 3/4 hours to do the entire chain with a full party. ( Including the all mighty endfight that did need the right items and tactic ). Nowadays, it's a matter of one hour soloing it at LVL 5/7 on Elite [ For the Stupid Streak ].

    The chain hasn't changed, but the 2+ levels difference due to the change in how the quest is run because of the changes in the bonuses from XP system make it looks easy.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathkeeper View Post
    I have been playing DDO for 8 years an I am less then happy about where the game is going. I miss the days when it took some talent and teamwork to finish a quest. I remember running STK and fighting the boss and only finish it with the proper group and teamwork. That was back in the day when soloing or zerging was almost impossible. No store to buy things to help you finish a quest. ie. rogue to do locks or traps. I realize it is all about money but quit changing the original theme.

    Anyone else miss the old days?

    Doc
    Nope.

  19. #19
    Community Member deathkeeper's Avatar
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    Cool Rebuttle

    Now that is what I am talking about. Players caring enough to reply to this post (be it positive of negative). Yes some of the new items of the new DDO are really great. I also like the great epic weapons and the new quests. Don't change the improvements but remember where Jerry wanted the game to go. I also take extended time off from the game and I think everyone should. I also play EQ2 and switch between the two to kind of keep them fresh.

    The most important thing is to have fun.

    Doc

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathkeeper View Post
    Now that is what I am talking about. Players caring enough to reply to this post (be it positive of negative). Yes some of the new items of the new DDO are really great. I also like the great epic weapons and the new quests. Don't change the improvements but remember where Jerry wanted the game to go. I also take extended time off from the game and I think everyone should. I also play EQ2 and switch between the two to kind of keep them fresh.

    The most important thing is to have fun.

    Doc
    There are definitely 2 crowds of people that will be vocal about this: those like you (and me for the most part) that like running a quest at or below level and using a full balanced part to achieve difficult goals, and those that want every toon to be a self-sufficient zerger, whether in a party or not. While I can enjoy the game either way I find the borderline vitriolic responses of the latter crowd to the wants of the first crowd to be unsettling and often inappropriate and pompous. There is a lot of good things to be said for a game the encourages/requires a well organized group that fills every roll working in meticulous fashion, though I know today's crowd is far to ADD for that style of game play. I for one certainly miss some of those aspects from EQ, complete with the holy trinity, knowing you absolutely had to have a healer, an enchanter, and a tank in high level content or you were pretty much boned.

    That said I also really enjoy the freedom to solo and short man missions WITHOUT the need for a holy trinity and with more diversity in builds and group makeup, so there are trade offs. What we have lost also results in what we have gained, you have to remember that (and many people will remind you of it in less than pleasant fashion here shortly I have no doubt).

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