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  1. #1
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Default Un-Nerf WooWoo (Life-Stealing) Weapons

    Dropping the "woo" from 100% on a crit to 33% (best guess) sucks.

    The Nightmare Bastard sword went from being the best trash-killer in the game to a trash weapon no longer worthy of the inventory slots or the feat required to use it.

    Heavy-blades as a TWFing Kensai went from viable option to a bad idea. Nightmare for Trash and Drow Khopesh for Red-names was a reasonable compromise. Now? It's Balizarde or Mornh . . . singl-head heavy-blades are dreck.

    The Nightmare, and other weapons of it's type, were an equalizer for low-DPS toons (Bards, melee divines, paladins, etc . . .). Low-DPS toons could still contribute against trash making them able to better justify a party slot.

    And best off . . . Nightmares would Hjeal Meh!


    Seriously . . . revert this back to the pre U20 state. Compared to a lot of garbage in DDO that is considered acceptable I have to say in hindsight the Nightmares were not over-powered.

    Make it so.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Dropping the "woo" from 100% on a crit to 33% (best guess) sucks.

    The Nightmare Bastard sword went from being the best trash-killer in the game to a trash weapon no longer worthy of the inventory slots or the feat required to use it.

    Heavy-blades as a TWFing Kensai went from viable option to a bad idea. Nightmare for Trash and Drow Khopesh for Red-names was a reasonable compromise. Now? It's Balizarde or Mornh . . . singl-head heavy-blades are dreck.

    The Nightmare, and other weapons of it's type, were an equalizer for low-DPS toons (Bards, melee divines, paladins, etc . . .). Low-DPS toons could still contribute against trash making them able to better justify a party slot.

    And best off . . . Nightmares would Hjeal Meh!


    Seriously . . . revert this back to the pre U20 state. Compared to a lot of garbage in DDO that is considered acceptable I have to say in hindsight the Nightmares were not over-powered.

    Make it so.
    Now you say it? NOW after i used all my boxes???? nonononono let the nerf hammer fall on monks

  3. #3

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    /signed

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  4. #4
    Community Member Certon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Dropping the "woo" from 100% on a crit to 33% (best guess) sucks.

    The Nightmare Bastard sword went from being the best trash-killer in the game to a trash weapon no longer worthy of the inventory slots or the feat required to use it.

    Heavy-blades as a TWFing Kensai went from viable option to a bad idea. Nightmare for Trash and Drow Khopesh for Red-names was a reasonable compromise. Now? It's Balizarde or Mornh . . . singl-head heavy-blades are dreck.

    The Nightmare, and other weapons of it's type, were an equalizer for low-DPS toons (Bards, melee divines, paladins, etc . . .). Low-DPS toons could still contribute against trash making them able to better justify a party slot.

    And best off . . . Nightmares would Hjeal Meh!


    Seriously . . . revert this back to the pre U20 state. Compared to a lot of garbage in DDO that is considered acceptable I have to say in hindsight the Nightmares were not over-powered.

    Make it so.
    Grave Wrappings (which only drain on vorpal) were nerfed as well. That's a serious screwage.

  5. #5
    Community Member Franke's Avatar
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    /Signed.

    It's strange that an epic "end game" weapon got screwed so badly. As its power is aimed against trash, nerfing it makes no real sense. As you say, it did slightly level the playing field for lower dps toons too.

  6. #6
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    Grave Wrappings (which only drain on vorpal) were nerfed as well. That's a serious screwage.
    Wow . . . that does suck. I didn't notice.

    Seriously Turbine, if you leave the junk in the game that does work this sure as heck wasn't OP.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery
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    Yes.

    This is Turbine's MO:

    1) Create a useful and fun ability on a named item.
    2) Oh, players like it? Put it on randgen/craftable items.
    3) Oh, wait, the ability wasn't scaled for the crit ranges/whatever of items other than the named ones it originally appeared on? Oops, better nerf the ability into the ground.
    4) The named item is now useless, you say? Well, who cares, named/raid items aren't supposed to be useful anyway.
    5) ???
    6) Profit?
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Yes.

    This is Turbine's MO:

    1) Create a useful and fun ability on a named item.
    2) Oh, players like it? Put it on randgen/craftable items.
    3) Oh, wait, the ability wasn't scaled for the crit ranges/whatever of items other than the named ones it originally appeared on? Oops, better nerf the ability into the ground.
    4) The named item is now useless, you say? Well, who cares, named/raid items aren't supposed to be useful anyway.
    5) ???
    6) Profit?
    Deadly will be nerfed next?

    Or Seeker?

  9. #9
    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    Deadly will be nerfed next?

    Or Seeker?
    My guess is featherfall or underwater action. They're totally OP, such lowlevel enchantments should not invalidate entire systems.*


    * There are no bonus points for recognizing what I'm referring to here.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  10. #10
    Community Member Arianka's Avatar
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    i'd be happy if thyey at least uppd the chance to 50%.

  11. #11
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    Deadly will be nerfed next?

    Or Seeker?
    Deadly never should have been added to the game.

  12. #12
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arianka View Post
    i'd be happy if thyey at least uppd the chance to 50%.
    it need to be back the way it was . . . the Nightmare is a trash weapon, it's not a good DPS weapon and it's meh on red-names. In order for it to excel as trash weapon it needs to be back the way it was.

    It order to be worth it, the Nightmare needs to kill trash faster than a Balizarde or Mornh.

  13. #13
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Just to be sure I understand - this weapon used to automatically drain levels on a crit, but now only does so aprox 30% of the time on crits? Is the vamprism the same or also nerfed?

  14. #14
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Just to be sure I understand - this weapon used to automatically drain levels on a crit, but now only does so aprox 30% of the time on crits?
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Is the vamprism the same or also nerfed?
    The Vamprism remains the same.

  15. #15
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Correct.
    Well that's dumb. What other weapon in the game only procs on some crits?

    So essentially they've nerfed it back similar to those that have that occasionally comes to the surface effect such as trap the soul or incineration. However most of those have a better effect than 1-3 level drains.

  16. #16
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Well that's dumb. What other weapon in the game only procs on some crits?
    Don't get be started on the 90% stat-damage immunity of Epic Ward. That should have gone as soon as Deathblock was removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    So essentially they've nerfed it back similar to those that have that occasionally comes to the surface effect such as trap the soul or incineration. However most of those have a better effect than 1-3 level drains.
    It's been nerfed to the point where it is no longer a better trash-killer than the other one-handed options. Since it's not a great DPS weapon it needs to be the best trash killer to be worth taking the feat and the inventory spaces. Since it no longer is the best trash-killer . . . it is trash.

  17. #17
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I think the best thing to do would be to unnerf the effect. I would settle for any of the following instead of or in addition to this reversion

    1. Remove the ultrafast neg level regeneration on EE mobs so that they don't heal back faster than we can drain with the nerfed weapons. Just like near immunity to ability score damage, this is an ability that isn't really needed, especially if the woo woo nerf is to remain in effect.

    2. Instead of a chance on crit which is clunky, just make it Xd3 neg levels on 19-20 or on vorpal hits. You "nerf" the high crit range weapons while Nightmare can remain effectively the same as it's former self, depending on what you set "X" at.
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  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    This is rather like all the nerfs to CON dmg which eventually rendered WoP weapons moot. "Zero CON = instadeath! No, wait, too powerful: zero CON = helplessness! No, wait, helplessness is OP, we'll nerf that from 'free auto-crits' to '+50% dmg.' Hmmm, too many rednames can be dropped to zero CON - let's add stat immunities!"

    Why even bother with the pretense than anything other than raw DPS (and the occasional CC effect) matters anymore?

  19. #19
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Why even bother with the pretense than anything other than raw DPS (and the occasional CC effect) matters anymore?
    Raw DPS is boring, I like seeing lighning strikes and woowoos and fun stuff like that. it's more fun that the big numbers you get off the Balizardes.

  20. #20
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    they should leave named woo-woo weapons as they were, and keep the random enchantment with the 33% chance IMHO.

    I know, i know, more coding, won't happen...one can dream i guess

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