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  1. #41
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who thinks it's ironic that the OP is annoyed about 'tons of clones running around' but s/he likes only pure classes?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    You didn't play much 3.5 if you don't like multiclassing. Or heck, 1st and 2nd, where muticlassing and dual classing gave tons of power too. I don't understand people who whine about pure classes. Outside of casters, they've never been a good choice. Ever.
    Unless you role play

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    hah. You guys are such jibber jabbers. Here is an example although it is somewhat quantity as well and yeah it is speed again so it is more for illustrative purposes. On the forums there have been various speed competitions. Why not formalize the speed per quests concept. Say that if you complete a quest lets say epic hard von1 in a certain amount of time and then the next time you run epic hard von 1 you do it 10% faster and then if you consitantly improve your speed you get rewards. You make these rewards on the last 100 quests you run that if you demonstrate an improvement in terms of speed in the last 100 quests you run you get a reward of your choice like say you get an epic past life choice which would improve your character power. Now speed is one example but how about damage taken. Say the measure is taking as little damage as possible in a quest while getting 10 or more kills in the quest. Another example would be damage taken vs. damage inflicted. If you inflict 90% damage then you take then you get awards. Etc etc....
    Wow, you are silly.

    First, there is no us guys are jibber jabbers, it was me talking to you. One on one.

    Second, your idea is ludicrous. Speed Runs were born out of boredom between updates and pushing ourselves through dull things like Shroud for the bazillionth time. You want to give a bonus like a Past Life Feat for running an easy quest like Von1 super fast? LOL!. Or the idea of doing damage while taking none? Sure, lets all be monchers tally that as a win, I'll take my Past Life Feat now, tyvm.

    Your ideas are terrible for both game balance and longevity. Please stick to playing and never attempt to develop. And please put your critique on pause until you at least understand a bit of balance.
    Git off mah lawn!

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  4. #44
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    That suggestion only serves a hyper-specific type of player. Now, obviously you are that type of player but I don't see how that could possibly be better for the health of the game.

    If you want to improve "quality" you need to create suggestions that provide quality for the vast majority of players OR create incentives that will result in earning more for activities that have shown to improve the likelihood of players sticking around.

    It makes no sense for a company to focus on rewarding an "elite" playstyle when the vast majority of its customers couldn't care less about being elite. Further, it only increases negative player interactions as non-elite players create a serious risk to an elite players "rewards."

    Quality, if you want to call it that, that would benefit the average player should/would focus around social aspects of the game. Joining and running guild quests, increasing the size of your guild, the number of "active" players in your guild, rewarding resurrections/healing/tanking ie: supportive playing and other group activities.

    "Elite" players are already very good at creating their own incentives for completion and sticking around. They want the best builds, gear and run times. They'll seek them out all on their own. Elite players create their own incentives to spend money, run quests 100,000 times and get better at them each time. From a business and general happiness perspective, it simply makes no sense to focus your rewards on Elite playstyles. It just doesn't.

  5. #45
    Community Member badbob117's Avatar
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    Default Is it worth it? hmmm?

    I do not think its worth actually paying for anything in game anymore.

    They used to have the f2p model down pretty good but the past year they kinda evolved it into a pay to win monster!
    It has scared away new players from playing at this point and seems to have backfired. It also scared away a ton of vets and long time players. The astral shards around every corner, The insane grind for coms, the long wait for sub par content, the lag, the unbalanced classes, capstones and races,. The utter **** loot feather put into the game... These have all had a negative impact on the population this year.. I cannot honestly recommend this game to a friend anymore in its current state.

    I play because i have a few good friends in game. They are what is keeping me around. Not the current game! If the social aspect is what you are after i think DDO is not the right game for you. Their are better choices out there right now for meeting new friends and actually grouping together and having fun.. DDO in its current state is just another grindy f2p mmo gone wrong with way to much emphasis on micro transactions!

    I hope it turns around but i can't really see them repairing the damage done at this point in time. It is pretty bleak! But hey, miracles have happened before. They turned the game around once from near death. Maybe they got some tricks up their sleeves? Idk?
    Born to play, Forced to work !

  6. #46
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bseamus View Post
    Unless you role play
    Or unless you like playing pure classes.

    The min/max, optimal-build-only people make me think of someone forming a basketball team. They get a talented 7-foot-tall person to play, and then decide that they won't let anyone else on the team unless they are also seven feet tall.

    "What about this guy? He's six-foot-ten and a good player!"

    "No, if he's not seven feet tall he's not going to be good enough."


    It's not like there is THAT much difference between, for example, a 20 paladin and an 18 paladin/2 fighter build. It's not like the pure paladin spends his time ineffectually waving his sword at the mobs, occasionally hitting for 8 or 9 points of damage, while the multiclass powerhouse has an AC that makes him invulnerable and his non-critical swings hit for 800 points each. There is a degree of difference, that's all.

    For the people that play the game as a first person shooter, I understand why they experiment with builds and gear and twists and destinies in order to find the "optimal" character. If that's how they have fun, that's great.

    For the people that play the game more like an RPG, that kind of thing is less interesting. That doesn't mean that pure builds are gimp or that any character without evasion is gimp or that any arcane that isn't a warforged is gimp, or anything like that. The player is by far the most important factor in determining if the character is any good, and that goes for FPS players and RPG players alike.
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  7. #47
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Wow, you are silly.

    First, there is no us guys are jibber jabbers, it was me talking to you. One on one.

    Second, your idea is ludicrous. Speed Runs were born out of boredom between updates and pushing ourselves through dull things like Shroud for the bazillionth time. You want to give a bonus like a Past Life Feat for running an easy quest like Von1 super fast? LOL!. Or the idea of doing damage while taking none? Sure, lets all be monchers tally that as a win, I'll take my Past Life Feat now, tyvm.

    Your ideas are terrible for both game balance and longevity. Please stick to playing and never attempt to develop. And please put your critique on pause until you at least understand a bit of balance.
    You are no fun man and quite frankly a jerk lol. Speed was one example of a qualitative measure and some of the other examples were a damage taken with some base and a damage taken vs. damage dished out differential. The point is Turbine could have qualitative measures and then gather the data and then where there is some form of improvement give out a reward. Enough improvement and you get a substantial award. Xp is so stale and really does not measure much if anything anymore. How about things that give rewards based on actual play instead of based on extreme repetition. I like qualitative measures because they become a game within a game. I did not just complete the quest, but I did something really well within the quest that I was striving to do. They could have multiple qualitative measures which reward different play styles.
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  8. #48
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    If ya like it, build it. If you can stand how it plays then level it. If people think your useless don't group with them. If your argument is that No one wants to group with you then find a guild that accepts you. If you don't want that but instead want to endlessly pug then well ur screwed.

    Personally I don't care if the pure endlessly dies. So long as they don't have a damn mic to endlessly moan that the magical ball of light is kicking their reflexless ass lol. That and people that moan about their masters bitz. Let me have kills waaa, and you try to let them but they suck so friggn bad even with multiclassing its actually a hindrance to leave these EE slivered monsters alive while they attempt to (ya get this) fire a single arrow at the monster.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    You didn't play much 3.5 if you don't like multiclassing. Or heck, 1st and 2nd, where muticlassing and dual classing gave tons of power too. I don't understand people who whine about pure classes. Outside of casters, they've never been a good choice. Ever.
    I'm guessing you played 2e with a lot looser house rules than I did then.

    Fighters that couldn't specialize or master weapons due to being multi? Rangers that could only multi with clerics and then suffered the weapon restrictions? Trying to hit the stat requirements to dual class?

    Thieves multi-ing, sure. It was a really weak class otherwise. But outside of that, it was generally not a good idea.

  10. #50
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Getting back to the OP's title, I'll just say DDO is not worth playing for you for now. When a game stops being fun, it's time to stop playing.

    That being said, DDO might still be fun for someone else, who will continue to play and enjoy the game. Opinions vary.
    Once upon a time, I was part of a team, and we saved some children. What have you done with your life?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You are no fun man and quite frankly a jerk lol. Speed was one example of a qualitative measure and some of the other examples were a damage taken with some base and a damage taken vs. damage dished out differential. The point is Turbine could have qualitative measures and then gather the data and then where there is some form of improvement give out a reward. Enough improvement and you get a substantial award. Xp is so stale and really does not measure much if anything anymore. How about things that give rewards based on actual play instead of based on extreme repetition. I like qualitative measures because they become a game within a game. I did not just complete the quest, but I did something really well within the quest that I was striving to do. They could have multiple qualitative measures which reward different play styles.
    So I am no fun and a jerk because I don't agree with you that the Devs should completely revamp the way advancement is handled in a game that approaching 8 years is now boring to you.

    Sure.
    Git off mah lawn!

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  12. #52
    Community Member TBot1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Speed was one example of a qualitative measure and some of the other examples were a damage taken with some base and a damage taken vs. damage dished out differential. The point is Turbine could have qualitative measures and then gather the data and then where there is some form of improvement give out a reward. Enough improvement and you get a substantial award.
    This sounds horrible and I hope the devs spend their time and money on something else.
    "So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood

  13. #53
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    If you are having fun, yes, if you are not having fun, take a break.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    They could have multiple qualitative measures which reward different play styles.
    If I understand you correctly, this sounds like the merit badge style achievements used by (among others) America's Army and everything on X-Box. While that could be interesting, I wouldn't want to see it tied to advancement or character progression. Instead, I would like to see it as "the thing to do" with your character when it's "done." When my build is complete, I have X pastlives, Y twists and Z gear; with only yet-to-be-released gear left as room to improve - that's when I would want to shift to "achievement mode" chasing accomplishments instead of progression. Actually, that's how I already play I just don't get little badges for it
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  15. #55
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    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  16. #56
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    First, I somewhat agree with the OP. But in my opinion the issue isn't multi-classing, its the people who don't accept a character into their group because it isn't multi-classed. If that wasn't happening I think the OP and many others wouldn't be quite so upset with the current system. I don't know how you get people to stop being stupid though, so I guess that's kindof a moot point.

    As for people pointing out stuff about multi-classing in PnP, I guess their DMs weren't much into the actual Roleplay of D&D. My DM would have asked anyone who wanted to multi-class to come up with a detailed, but non-cheesey scenario where they were able to pull off the multi-class. And of course make them roleplay that transition(s) - both the leaving of the old class and the going to the new class. I wonder what would happen to a character who botched that transition - fighters no longer willing to train them because they expressed an interest in "going rogue", rogues don't want them because they're biased against the Fighters' Guild in that area or whatever...

    And then the DM would have made sure that anyone who multi-classed "paid" for their extra abilities not only with the game mechanic negatives that come with not being a pure class but also the roleplay ramifications.

    I've always been sad that the "RPG" part of MMORPG was almost non-existent in the actual games.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    If ya like it, build it. If you can stand how it plays then level it. If people think your useless don't group with them. If your argument is that No one wants to group with you then find a guild that accepts you. If you don't want that but instead want to endlessly pug then well ur screwed.
    Back when I was playing the NovaSoul, I once got turned down for healing a raid because my guild name contained "BYOH". I didn't go start a forum drama thread... I just waited until the next time that person joined a different raid that I was healing... and after the raid, I asked for an assessment of how I did. They said I did fine, and I asked them to please give me a shot the next time they were forming a raid. They said they would.

    If people would worry less about the fact someone else might be having fun, and more about playing the game and improving their skills/equipment/characters. Most of the issues would go away.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoogar View Post
    But, it seems that now we are require to have at least two levels of this or that for evasion or dodge as the higher level quests require it. Ever since the concept of AC has changed many people have added monk levels their characters. Well, I don't even like playing monks and I certainly have no desire to add monk levels to my characters.
    Don't think of it as taking 2 levels of monk, think of it as taking the evasion feat that costs 2 character levels. Don't stop there though, along with the evasion feat you want the really good saves feat 2 pally provides. So just think of all your characters, (which you are only allowed to play one now because of the massive XP grind they threw in, the rest are all bank alts to hold all the gear you need for TRing your one true character)... so just think of your character levels as being 1-16, with 4 character levels for feat slots. I call those 4 levels the 1337 f337, because the feat is so elite that it takes 4 character levels to acquire but then makes you immune to 90% of the damage in the game.

    To answer your question: "Is it worth playing DDO anymore?"

    Only if you look at the game for the fast past action arcade game it is. A game where the goal is to grind the highest score possible, as fast as possible, so that you can earn powerups that allow you to grind an even higher score than before! This game is Pac Man in dragon's clothing. If you want an in depth RPG gameplay you need to find a different game, WoW might be a good place to start, it's vastly more RPG oriented. DDO is all about self sufficiency, speed, and above all else... moar d33pz! There's no place for traditional character roles in this fast paced action Hack 'N Slash. You want to tank... go to WoW. You want to heal anyone but yourself... go to WoW. You want teamwork and strategy, go to WoW. You want kungfu pandas, again go to WoW.

    If you don't spend 75% of the quest invisible, running straight to the end boss, you're doing it wrong and should go play WoW. If someone asks you where the traps are in this quest and you don't ask yourself, "Hmmm... does this quest have traps?", you're doing it wrong and should go play WoW. You shouldn't know where traps are because you should be immune to them, and you sure shouldn't be wasting time trying to find them. If you can't instantly heal yourself to full at the press of a single key, you are doing it wrong and should go play WoW. If you don't keep a bank alt flagged for the short quests with high XP so that you can window farm them E/H/N/H/H, you're doing it wrong and should go play WoW. If you don't singlemindedly run full speed through a quest with the solitary goal of busting the end boss open like a pinata to let rain down all the XP goodness inside, you're doing it wrong and should go play WoW.

    I'm not telling you to go play WoW because I don't want you here. I'm telling you to go play WoW because you aren't going to be happy here, but you'll probably find what you're looking for there. Years ago the players decided what kind of game they wanted DDO to be, the developers listened, and now we have the fast paced action Hack 'N Slash 3rd person shooter you see today. Players wanted a limitless high score, with super powerup rewards being reserved only for those who've held down w and wiggled the mouse back and for the most. Turbine has delivered.

    DDO is solely about building characters that maximize XP/min in order to attain the hundreds of millions of XPeez required to get them all. Start with completionist, which luckily you can buy in the store now. Then move on to true completionist to get all the juicy powerups from that. Then max all your destinies to collect the twisty powerups. Then start collecting epic pastlives to unlock those powerups. If you play 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week, drink pots, window farm, buy boxes, and 1337 streak, you'll have a character ready to take on the end game content that doesn't exist in under 2 years, if you're lucky.

  19. #59
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Back when I was playing the NovaSoul, I once got turned down for healing a raid because my guild name contained "BYOH". I didn't go start a forum drama thread... I just waited until the next time that person joined a different raid that I was healing... and after the raid, I asked for an assessment of how I did. They said I did fine, and I asked them to please give me a shot the next time they were forming a raid. They said they would.

    If people would worry less about the fact someone else might be having fun, and more about playing the game and improving their skills/equipment/characters. Most of the issues would go away.
    You can complete about 99% of all content by simply accepting the first 5 or eleven people to hit your LFM.

    It still cracks me up when I (occasionally) run into a Shroud group whose LFM will be posted for hours because they are convinced they need a very specific mix of characters in order to complete. Sure, they can be as selective as they like, but they are severely limiting themselves for no reason. I don't know why anyone would prefer screening to actually playing.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jarladdin Nalfesne, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

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  20. #60
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude View Post
    Don't think of it as taking 2 levels of monk, think of it as taking the evasion feat that costs 2 character levels. Don't stop there though, along with the evasion feat you want the really good saves feat 2 pally provides. So just think of all your characters, (which you are only allowed to play one now because of the massive XP grind they threw in, the rest are all bank alts to hold all the gear you need for TRing your one true character)... so just think of your character levels as being 1-16, with 4 character levels for feat slots. I call those 4 levels the 1337 f337, because the feat is so elite that it takes 4 character levels to acquire but then makes you immune to 90% of the damage in the game.

    To answer your question: "Is it worth playing DDO anymore?"

    Only if you look at the game for the fast past action arcade game it is. A game where the goal is to grind the highest score possible, as fast as possible, so that you can earn powerups that allow you to grind an even higher score than before! This game is Pac Man in dragon's clothing. If you want an in depth RPG gameplay you need to find a different game, WoW might be a good place to start, it's vastly more RPG oriented. DDO is all about self sufficiency, speed, and above all else... moar d33pz! There's no place for traditional character roles in this fast paced action Hack 'N Slash. You want to tank... go to WoW. You want to heal anyone but yourself... go to WoW. You want teamwork and strategy, go to WoW. You want kungfu pandas, again go to WoW.

    If you don't spend 75% of the quest invisible, running straight to the end boss, you're doing it wrong and should go play WoW. If someone asks you where the traps are in this quest and you don't ask yourself, "Hmmm... does this quest have traps?", you're doing it wrong and should go play WoW. You shouldn't know where traps are because you should be immune to them, and you sure shouldn't be wasting time trying to find them. If you can't instantly heal yourself to full at the press of a single key, you are doing it wrong and should go play WoW. If you don't keep a bank alt flagged for the short quests with high XP so that you can window farm them E/H/N/H/H, you're doing it wrong and should go play WoW. If you don't singlemindedly run full speed through a quest with the solitary goal of busting the end boss open like a pinata to let rain down all the XP goodness inside, you're doing it wrong and should go play WoW.

    I'm not telling you to go play WoW because I don't want you here. I'm telling you to go play WoW because you aren't going to be happy here, but you'll probably find what you're looking for there. Years ago the players decided what kind of game they wanted DDO to be, the developers listened, and now we have the fast paced action Hack 'N Slash 3rd person shooter you see today. Players wanted a limitless high score, with super powerup rewards being reserved only for those who've held down w and wiggled the mouse back and for the most. Turbine has delivered.

    DDO is solely about building characters that maximize XP/min in order to attain the hundreds of millions of XPeez required to get them all. Start with completionist, which luckily you can buy in the store now. Then move on to true completionist to get all the juicy powerups from that. Then max all your destinies to collect the twisty powerups. Then start collecting epic pastlives to unlock those powerups. If you play 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week, drink pots, window farm, buy boxes, and 1337 streak, you'll have a character ready to take on the end game content that doesn't exist in under 2 years, if you're lucky.
    Ignore the above post.

    There is absolutely no need to play DDO in the zerging, max XP/minute, "manic race to cap to TR so you can commence another manic race to TR" style. If you enjoy actually playing DDO, as opposed to gritting your teeth while suffering through a life on your way to cap so you can TR again, then enjoy!

    If you accidentally find yourself in a group where everyone is yelling at you because you didn't know you were supposed to chug an invisibility pot as soon as you entered and sprint past all the mobs so that you can skip right to the end fight, just politely apologize and remember not to join groups posted by that person again. There are plenty of other groups out there where people enjoy playing the content.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jarladdin Nalfesne, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

    Sole member of Guinness Knights (Level 105)

    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

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