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  1. #1

    Default Monkcher question

    Hey ya's.

    So I took a break from the game and recently came back.

    My favorite character is my monk and I want to try to do this "monkcher" thing everyone seems to be playing.

    I've been playing around while getting my 3 ranger PL's and keep making mistakes and running out of feats and none of the builds I see quite fit.

    I'm hoping someone has a link to something that would fit what I'd like to do.

    K.

    My character is completionist with some helpful 3x PLs and a shiney new store bought +5 upgrade stat tome.
    I have maxed destinies but have zero epic or iconic lives.
    I gotta be a trapper.
    I needs me viable unarmed combat with good stuns.
    This character is always a human.
    I prefer WIS build but am flexible there.
    Defense is very important.
    I'll gladly sacrifice a bit of DPS to have the above.

    Any suggestions?
    Can I even fit all of that in this new system?

    Thanks.
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  2. #2
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    look at any standard template and swap out a couple of feats from a 100% ranger to pick up stunning fist and gtwf.

    eg, my build Rangenmo could be modified for you fairly easily.

    First go Human instead of elf, you'll need the skill point and feat if you really want to trap.
    Swap the druid levels for Rogue levels. That means you no longer qualify for empower heal, so that's the second feat slot you needed.

    Given that you're wanting to melee a bit, you could also drop Epic combat archery to pick up Vorpal Fists, or Improved Martial arts instead. This would mean you only need to reach 19dex instead of 21.

  3. #3
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Yes, you can fit that all in.

    I don't know whether your mention of a +5 upgrade stat tome was for one stat or all of them, but I'll assume the latter.

    Str 16 +5 tome +2 levels = 23 for Overwhelming Critical
    Dex 16 +5 tome = 21 for Combat Archery
    Con 10
    Int 12 +4 tome for skill points
    Wis 16 (or 15 and raise Con to a 12) +all remaining level-ups (+5)
    Cha 8

    Ranger 11, Monk 6, Artificer 3 (note: I've played a monk 12/ranger 6/artificer 2 version of this with epic-level trapping ability, and without ever bothering to melee, though it's certainly possible. I like having Abundant Step, but after a considerable amount of discussion on the forums in the last few weeks, I'll conceded that 11 ranger/6 monk is probably better than 12 monk/6 ranger, especially if you want to be meleeing occasionally).

    Feats (in no particular order, but bonus feats will be marked with M for monk):
    Stunning Fist (m)
    Zen Archery (m)
    Ten Thousand Stars (m)
    Path of Harmonious Balance (m)
    Point Blank Shot
    Power Attack
    Cleave
    Great Cleave
    Improved Critical: Ranged
    Master of Forms (taken after monk 6, and level 12 or later)
    Completionist
    Empower Healing

    Epic:
    Overwhelming Critical
    Combat Archery
    ??? Quicken, Precision, or one of Epic Damage Reduction, or Epic Fortitude

    Epic Destiny Feats:
    ...going to depend on what you want out of the character ultimately, but I'll say that Doubleshot is useless on a monkcher.

    As far as enhancements go, I'll just make a few recommendations:
    Arcane Archer (35-37 AP) - Core 4, Improved Elemental Imbue, Arrow of Slaying, Runebow, Inferno Shot, Soul Magic, Paralyzing Arrows rank 1, Wis +2
    Deepwood Stalker (11 AP) - Core 3, Stealthy III, Increased Empathy II
    Ninja Spy (4 AP) - Acrobatic III, Core 1
    Hensin Mystic (8 AP) - Core 1, Animal Forms (Tortoise), Contemplation III (note, this isn't super-important if you're going to be meleeing a lot...it's mostly needed to allow for 100% archery while maintaining Ki for 10K Stars, but it's still useful to have a point of passive Ki Gen)
    Shintao (1-11 AP ) - Core 1; can stop there if you want, or pick up some more stuff to get to Iron Skin III (I'd pick up Elemental Curatives: Difficulty at the Beginning or Restoring the Balance)
    Arcanotechnician (4) - Core 1, Wand and Scroll Mastery III (not super-important if you find you're self-healing much more than using scrolls)

    Remaining AP can go into some more Sneak Attack damage in Ninja Spy, bonuses to saves from one of the monk trees, Human Adaptability (Wis and whichever of Con, Str, or Dex, in that order of importance), Human Versatility (Damage), Healing Amp (human or Shintao Core abilities). I'd probably also try to get some more points into Wis from one of the trees.

    Epic Destiny:
    Fury of the Wild - Fury Eternal, Primal Scream, Wild Instincts III (for +2 Wis while raged), and Unbridled Fury are really the only things you need here. Everything else to taste.

    Twists:
    A Dance of Flowers
    Pin
    Rejuvenation Cocoon or Legendary Tactics

    What you end up with are pretty good saves, Evasion, self-cast Cure Moderate Wounds for a goodly amount, ability to max-out Search, Disable Device, UMD, Spot (with your high Wis you don't need max ranks in this...skimp here if you need to max something else), Concentration, Heal, with points to spare for a few ranks in Open Lock (4 ranks has been enough for nearly every lock in the game for me, but a few more ranks wouldn't hurt if you have some to spare), all of the archery-related feats, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and even Power Attack and two Cleaves to use while in melee, along with what should be a pretty solid Stunning Fist DC. You've also got Improved Elemental Arrows from AA, which, among other things, counts for Shocking Burst arrows with a Vulnerability stack on-crit (adds up fast with Manyshot/10K Stars--I recommend waiting on throwing a Slayer Arrow until near the end of a Manyshot if you're using these, to get the most of the Vulnerability multiplier on that).

    You'll also have Artificer Elemental Weapons to cast, as well as Enchant Weapon and Enchant Armor (the first is useful to give to casters, or even yourself, for the spellpower buff on implements--your bow counts as an implement), slightly better wands and scrolls and potions, and an artificer's Iron Defender you can call up to pull levers for you (I use mine when running Prison of the Planes so the whole group can get into each room, or when soloing for all sorts of stuff).

    You could spend points to get Shadow Veil as well, which, if you're meleeing a lot, should be useful.

    This is definitely primarily ranged-focused, but should be adept in melee, since you'll have the feat support and a pretty decent Str. The Wis focus is to both improve your Stunning Fist DC and get you more procs on 10K Stars.

    As far as equipment goes, Pinion + Planar Conflux Prowess set, and a focus on improving your Wis as much as possible is a start (+10 enhancement, +3 Insight, +1 exceptional).

    Like I said earlier, I've not played this version, but I'm entertaining settling on something similar for my archer's final life, if I ever get there, though I'm up in the air between the arti splash and a paladin splash at the moment--I liked being able to cover traps. The build is pretty survivable: your HP won't be stellar, but I've managed to basically solo the blue dragon and giant in EE Tor.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    You might have noticed half the server being 12 monk / 6 ranger / 2 something with Pinions and pyjamas.
    12 monk is superior ( move speed, master stance, improved evasion which helps with crappy saves, abundant step, seriously earth stanced with 6 monk is slow as snail ), not sure what 11 ranger would give you ( EDIT : alright, 12 ranger would give you aligned arrows which is useful depending what you got in Pinion and not a (half)elf ).
    12 monk / 6 ranger / 2 arty or rogue. Some SP, lever puller or some sneak die ? Both rocking great scroll mastery, yummy on human in addition to cocoon.

    You don't have to melee at all, it's pretty dangerous and less efffective than just working with IPS. Besides, I don't know how would you fit 5 mastery item for good stun or if it will be worthwile without Legendary tactics ( and you really don't have twists to spare, they are all great ) and low ish wisdom ( unless you have 75+ SF , don't bother ).

    Shadowfade, Perma displace and decent 20+ dodge, good mobility and fast fingers are non negotiable if you want to play aggressively without ending as a soulstone.
    Last edited by Encair; 01-02-2014 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Ranger 11, Monk 6, Artificer 3

    Like I said earlier, I've not played this version, but I'm entertaining settling on something similar for my archer's final life, if I ever get there, though I'm up in the air between the arti splash and a paladin splash at the moment--I liked being able to cover traps. The build is pretty survivable: your HP won't be stellar, but I've managed to basically solo the blue dragon and giant in EE Tor.
    I have played this exact split to get my ranger past lives.

    From a pure damage standpoint:
    When considering the options you're limited to with epic feats on an 11 ranger build, 12monk imo certainly pulls ahead in melee with Vorpal fists. Picking Improved Martial Arts instead of Epic Combat Archery only loses .5[w] from your bow, but It's a big saving on stat points not having to invest in 21dex.
    I considered the artificer imbues, but they're less damage than the free sneak attack from rogue.
    12monk has 1[w] more damage unarmed than 6monk.

    I found the only things I really miss on my 12monk builds (vs 11ranger) are 30point resists, and access to empower heal. On both builds I end up twisting rejuvenation cocoon as the ranger cures are not efficient or effective enough.

    I would definitely recommend an 11ranger build for a pastlife, but from my own experience it's weaker when played at cap. The extra offensive options 12monk nets alone are worth it.

    The extra mobility that 12monk gains though is a bonus that cannot be quantified, but it is the reason why 12monk is ultimately the superior split.
    Last edited by fTdOmen; 01-03-2014 at 12:27 AM.

  6. #6

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    Thanks all.

    Some great advice that has helped.

    +'s all around.

    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  7. #7
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    I didn't thoroughly read the above replies, but munkenmo and sephiroth1084 generally have solid advice.

    I'd go 12 monk/6 ranger/2 arti, human. 2 arti doesn't really get you much over 1 besides more skill points to pump into UMD and trap skills, but going to 13 monk or 7 ranger doesn't do much either.

    The feats are difficult to sequence, but will just barely work if you do it right.

  8. #8
    Community Member BlueBloody's Avatar
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    Hello, you can try 12 Mnk\6 rng\2 fvs or 2 pld or 2 art human or pdk. In my sign is there build. Most players use elf 2 fighter splash.
    Avildar D'Amberville

    Click here for my build

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    I didn't thoroughly read the above replies, but munkenmo and sephiroth1084 generally have solid advice.

    I'd go 12 monk/6 ranger/2 arti, human. 2 arti doesn't really get you much over 1 besides more skill points to pump into UMD and trap skills, but going to 13 monk or 7 ranger doesn't do much either.

    The feats are difficult to sequence, but will just barely work if you do it right.
    Yeah. I'm playing around with planner and think I'll go 12 monk/6ranger/1 arti +1 the extra level somewhere.
    The extra level gets you no extra feat anywhere, no bonus to BAB or saves anywhere.
    So its a choice of Improved Wild Empathy -vs- Diamond Soul -vs- Potion Mastery and Rune Arm Use. None of which do anything for me.
    I guess I'll put it in monk (one day, far from now, I'll see a spell resistance save one time and go "ah! It was worth it!" :-)

    I'll pick up IPS and GTW as chosen feats maybe so the trade over a ranger heavy build is those 2 feats -vs- speed and improved evasion.
    That seems pretty clear that speed and IE would help my personal build better.
    Unless I'm missing something.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloody View Post
    Hello, you can try 12 Mnk\6 rng\2 fvs or 2 pld or 2 art human or pdk. In my sign is there build. Most players use elf 2 fighter splash.
    That pally splash would be the logical thing to do what with the saves n all.
    And maybe another race or iconic too.

    Unfortunately I'm not logical.
    Diuni is a human trapper.
    That's the plan and I'm stickin to it.
    :-D
    (Not sure why, but I get stuck on points of role-play. For example I have a FVS that can ONLY wear a certain type of hat, which was fine when level cap was 20, but now that its 28 being stuck with that random gen appearance style only so no named hats or dragon hats, is a challenge but I'm sticking with it. I'm strange like that)
    Last edited by phillymiket; 01-03-2014 at 11:07 AM.
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  10. #10
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    The SR isn't going to be at all useful, even most high level heroic content casters are going to be a 23 SR on a roll of 1.

    Artificer 2 gives +1 Will save, and +1 spell slot (in addition to Potions +1, which isn't completely worthless--that's another point of healing before amp from Cure pots, another 6 seconds of duration on Haste pots, and another min on something like GH pots). The extra spell slot isn't all that useful, as you really just want Enchant Weapon and Enchant Armor, but you could also slot Grease (for fun).

    Also, I'll reflect that I find I rarely used Heal scrolls on my 12 m/6 r/2 a monkcher at cap, due to the strength of Cocoon, so W&S Mastery may not be a necessity, and if it isn't, 2 rogue is probably a better splash for +1d6 SA, +3 Reflex save, and 4 more skill points per level, not to mention enhancements you're more likely to want to spend AP in.

    The big benefits of the arti splash are:
    • cheap W&S Mastery (4 AP total to get the whole line) -- if you're using scrolls enough for this to matter
    • +1 to scroll level -- ditto
    • Enchant Weapon is giving you a little more than +1 damage (crits) on everything, along with +3 spell power, while +1d6 SA is 3.5 some of the time
    • Currently, Soul Magic's prerequisites are bugged, and you need Magical Training in order to pick it up, which means, 1 level of artificer, or 3 ranks of Energy of the Wild until that gets fixed
    • the iron defender for level pulling
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    The SR isn't going to be at all useful, even most high level heroic content casters are going to be a 23 SR on a roll of 1.

    Artificer 2 gives +1 Will save, and +1 spell slot (in addition to Potions +1, which isn't completely worthless--that's another point of healing before amp from Cure pots, another 6 seconds of duration on Haste pots, and another min on something like GH pots). The extra spell slot isn't all that useful, as you really just want Enchant Weapon and Enchant Armor, but you could also slot Grease (for fun).

    Also, I'll reflect that I find I rarely used Heal scrolls on my 12 m/6 r/2 a monkcher at cap, due to the strength of Cocoon, so W&S Mastery may not be a necessity, and if it isn't, 2 rogue is probably a better splash for +1d6 SA, +3 Reflex save, and 4 more skill points per level, not to mention enhancements you're more likely to want to spend AP in.

    The big benefits of the arti splash are:
    • cheap W&S Mastery (4 AP total to get the whole line) -- if you're using scrolls enough for this to matter
    • +1 to scroll level -- ditto
    • Enchant Weapon is giving you a little more than +1 damage (crits) on everything, along with +3 spell power, while +1d6 SA is 3.5 some of the time
    • Currently, Soul Magic's prerequisites are bugged, and you need Magical Training in order to pick it up, which means, 1 level of artificer, or 3 ranks of Energy of the Wild until that gets fixed
    • the iron defender for level pulling
    By Jovis, you are correct.
    2 rogue is better for me.
    I get a bit of sneak attack from Ninja and rogue PLs anyway so it could add up to something.
    If I need a lever puller and I'm by myself I can just pop the panther, so to speak.
    I can get W&S mastery from rogue enhancements (50% with 2 rogue lvs iirc) that could balance the loss if I needed, but I'd love toi get off the scroll system of self-preservation anyway.

    Thanks, I'll seriously consider that.

    (can't plus anymore atm but will get a few I missed later - thanks)
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  12. #12
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Enchant Weapon is nearly useless for monkchers since they get +2 enh to bows that doesn't stack. OP wants to melee though, so I guess it's potentially useful there.

    The biggest benefit to arti is W&S Mastery. For that alone I would take arti over rogue - I always want W&SM if I don't have Emp Healing for cocoon.

  13. #13
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    By Jovis, you are correct.
    2 rogue is better for me.
    I get a bit of sneak attack from Ninja and rogue PLs anyway so it could add up to something.
    If I need a lever puller and I'm by myself I can just pop the panther, so to speak.
    I can get W&S mastery from rogue enhancements (50% with 2 rogue lvs iirc) that could balance the loss if I needed, but I'd love toi get off the scroll system of self-preservation anyway.

    Thanks, I'll seriously consider that.

    (can't plus anymore atm but will get a few I missed later - thanks)
    Well, if you pick up DWS Core 3, you'll have +3d6 SA just from that (1d6 at Core 1, 1d6 at Core 2, 1d6 from Stealthy III), and Sniper's Shot will give you SA even with aggro 2/3 of the time. So that's already 10.5 damage. Add even a Backstabbing +5 item, and you're up to 18.5, and that can go up with your rogue PLs, an Exceptional Sneak Attack item, and AP spent in Ninja Spy, before adding Rogue for 1d6 and another tree to spend AP in for more SA dice.
    Quote Originally Posted by cdr View Post
    Enchant Weapon is nearly useless for monkchers since they get +2 enh to bows that doesn't stack. OP wants to melee though, so I guess it's potentially useful there.
    Hadn't realize that these didn't stack. Are you sure? If so, well...that allows you to save 2 AP if you don't mind going from +2 to +1. Not much of a gain.

    The biggest benefit to arti is W&S Mastery. For that alone I would take arti over rogue - I always want W&SM if I don't have Emp Healing for cocoon.
    You can get W&S Mastery with the rogue dip...it just costs more AP (you have to spend 5 AP in Mechanic to get to W&S, then they cost 2 AP/rank instead of 1/rank in Arti). That's trading 4 AP for +75% scroll healing (on 120 base Heal scrolls, instead of 110 for everyone else), vs. 11 AP for the same.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  14. #14

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    I think I'm leaning toward...
    Str - 16, Dex - 16, Con 10, Int - 12, Wis 16, Cha 8
    Two point in Str all other points in Wis
    Rogue lv 1..monk lv 2-7....ranger 8-11...monk 12..17...ranger 18-19....rogue 20
    For a monk 12/ranger 6/ rogue 2 split

    Feats
    1 - Power Attack
    1 - Cleave
    2 - Stunning Fist
    3 - Completionist
    3 - Zen Archery
    6 - Point Blank Shot
    8- 10,000 stars
    9 - Great Cleave
    12 - Improved Crit:Ranged
    15 - Improved Precise Shot
    18 - Grandmaster of Forms

    Then Combat Archery, Overwhelming Critical for epic feats.

    Let me know if anyone reads this and sees an obvious mistake.

    I'm worried that I'll be so squishy. Never started with a 10 con before :-0

    TY :-)
    Last edited by phillymiket; 01-10-2014 at 07:27 PM.
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

  15. #15
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    I'm worried that I'll be so squishy. Never started with a 10 con before :-0
    You'll be fine, I've got 11base con on my AA and it ends up being over 700hp at cap.

    I'm considering dropping that to 6con (elf) on my next life when I go for a 2fvs splash instead of 2druid.

  16. #16
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillymiket View Post
    I'm worried that I'll be so squishy. Never started with a 10 con before :-0

    TY :-)
    You have 1 more epic feat to select.

    Remember that each point of Con modifier is only going to be 28 HP at cap, and less than that on the way up, so the difference between someone starting at 14, and you starting at 10 is only going to end up as 56 HP, and -2 Fort save. Not insignificant, but also not a big enough deal to really concern yourself about it.

    I think I started with similar stats on my elf version (started with a 14 Int to make up for not having the human's bonus skill point).

    I strongly suggest you plot out the levels and skill points, with tomes coming online at 3, 7, 11 and 15 to get everything right. I found that the most difficult part of planning and leveling this was working out when to increase which skills to get everything maxed, or close to it, by level 20. Ending your last 3 levels with ranger and rogue should help, as they'll be able to help you round stuff off.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  17. #17

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    Thanks all for help.

    I'm pretty happy with the result.

    I'm 23 now and doing fine in EE.

    Hitting traps fine, making saves etc. I am a bit squishy but that's fine so far.
    Archery skills are good. Stun DC is weak but workable as long as I use it on the correct mobs and it's better if I twist tactics.

    As someone mentioned above cocoon is really all I use and I hardly scroll at all and the heal I get from a scroll with my amp is plenty good even w/o wand & scroll mastery (although the odd barb I try to scroll heal doesn't get much help :-D )
    BONGO FURY - Ghallanda - Thingfish - Wizard, Diuni - Ninja, Gheale - Angel, Dullknife - Tank, Noodlefish - Gimp, Jaquaby - Treacherous and other gimps I won't cop to.

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