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  1. #1
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default This is why we can't have nice things!

    Morning, and Happy New Years!

    Alright, enough with the pleasantries :P

    I know I've posted list after exhausting list, but I asked a few newer players to look to these forums and I am posting this to help them. Recently, since my last post was so well received, I've taken to starting PUGs a little more. While the vast majority of them have been AWESOME, there are still a few trends I hope to stop before they become prevalent. Taking the well-intentioned advice of people on here, I didn't bark at anyone or insult them, no matter how inept/ socially awkward/ racist/ sexist they turned out being. And yes, having a guild name with the word Nazi in it to me is not a good thing. I'm not here to argue the semantics of that, though.

    To newer players joining these forums - Welcome! Even though I may seem elitist*, there is a method to my madness**! Here are a few things you can do to not only learn the game faster, but not annoy people who have a goal in mind that you are actively prohibiting by playing like a jackwagon. I post here so you have a handy reference, and also so others can note things that you might keep in mind when playing to make this game enjoyable for as many people as possible. I am going to copy the link to this post and will post it to people displaying behavior in blatant opposition to the mantras within.

    1. ELITE BB may not be for you. Elite means the quest is as tough as Turbine could make it. If you don't know what the quest entails, you should probably either not join, or let the leader know you don't know what to do so said leader can plan accordingly. There are also a few things you should have regardless of the quest:
    Cure Serious Wounds/Repair potions - at least 25 potions of CSW, or spell components to cast it if you have the spell, or scrolls also would suffice. It can get annoying to do, but it's worth it. Sometimes the healer is busy and you need to keep yourself up.
    Remove Curse - at least 25
    Lesser Restoration - at least 25
    Remove Poison - at least 25
    ~Optional~ - resist energy potions, jump potions, rage potions, haste potions. These aren't required, but can really help.
    Bravery Bonus is not a right, it's a privilege. It assumes you can handle everything the quest can throw at you and are ready to take on the hardest mobs it can throw your way. If you're on a first life, and heck, even a second life, Bravery Bonus is not something you should demand, especially if you don't know the quest. Have I done quests for the first time on elite? Absolutely. When I fail a few times, even on my 17th life, I drop back to hard. It takes little to nothing to get your streak back. The end all criteria you should bring with you is: "Am I going to be useful in elite content?" If you don't know puzzles, can't heal/CC/trap/DPS, and can't find the quest, then maybe learning the quest on hard would be a more productive use of time.

    2. Communication - This one is tough for me. I don't like telling people what to do in a game, but it is what it is. People playing this game, even if they know how to run the quest, want you, as group leader, to tell them what to do, and won't do it or ANYTHING sometimes until you tell them to (I've had people not buff, not heal, not search for traps, etc, then claim that they didn't know that's how I ran the quest and I should have told them). I have endeavored to be more assertive and lead groups I start, but this means if I tell you to do something, you do it. The first time. Not the 5th, not after everyone dies, the first time. If you can't do that, then be prepared to handle yourself in the off chance that you may be left to your own devices. If you ignore my direction, run off and die and it's going to wipe the party to get you, you have no right to get angry if I just leave you there and you miss out on chests etc. You got free XP, that is the price you pay for going rogue (and it's spelled ROGUE, not ROUGE :P). The only thing I dislike more than ordering people around is having them ignore me. This is the same for a lot of group leaders (now for the 4382904 responses of "I let people do anything they want and you should too, jerk" that will come up)

    3. Unless otherwise stated, know your way or be ready to pipe up and SAY you need help. Had an instance last night where we were in GOP, get out, and rather than double recall I ran to Fleshmakers. I asked twice if anyone needed help or needed me to come get them, no one said anything. We get in Fleshmakers, make it to the part where you drop down the shaft, and a pugger started complaining that they were tired of running around the wilderness. They then ignored another player's offer to guide them, saying I shouldn't have left them behind and that because of that now they were leaving (they were the healer. I can self heal, but I was the only one, and with only 7 levels of bard, really only myself), and left us high and dry. I can't read your mind. If you need help, say so. I promise, and I think the vast majority of those of us who have played the game for a while will pledge to not call you out for not knowing something, but if you not only don't know, didn't really contribute, then complain that we couldn't read your mind and didn't come back for you, I will be annoyed and that can negatively impact the vibe going forward. This is a specific instance, but it happens a LOT. Asking for a share to a walk up means I have the right to ask you if you know where the quest is, and means you should have a semi-decent reason why you need a share to Coalescence Chamber. TELL ME you need help, I will bend over backwards to help people get to a quest! But if you don't SAY anything, I assume you know where to go and will zone in and go IP (In progress) as soon as I get there.

    4. Look at your guild/ character name. Is it racist? Is it homophobic? Does it insult anyone? If the answer to any of those names is yes, you already have one strike against you. Joining a quest and acting stupid takes what can potentially be an already tense situation and makes it tenfold. Saying "Well, he was a black guy so I knew he'd never pay me back ha ha!" is going to offend people, like me (even if I wasn't black, that is offensive). When a woman joins the group, asking her about her cycles and what her genitals/chest look like is offensive and will get you kicked. Calling someone a homophobic slur will get you kicked. Telling us how high you are or how drunk you are is not going to make you cooler. If you are drunk and that's how you like to play, that's great and I support that. Your lack of control is not something I care to emulate, and therefore I don't find it cool to join and say "Man I just smoked like 2 pounds of weed I am SOOOO high right now WHOOOO!" You're a loser. And you're also probably not high/ drunk. Keep it to yourself or get kicked. I'm not a Puritan, I enjoy the finer boxed wines when I play, but I don't brag about it or try to get dates with every female who joins by talking about how tough it is finding pants baggy enough to hold my manhood in them. You're lying. Shut up.

    5. People die. I die. It happens. The 10% no death bonus is a BONUS. It is not something that is guaranteed, and everyone rolls a 1. As a matter of fact, last night in friggin Temple of Vol I went to get the first key and got held, then danced while held so when I made the save I started dancing, delevelled and then disintegrated while I hovered in the air as the shadows had me boxed away from the quell. Stuff like that happens. As group leader, it is my job to (unless you break one of the previous rules) get everyone safely and securely to the end chest with as few resources used and as little time and annoyance as possible. If someone dies, even if they get lost and die because they went AFK (and seriously, if you don't know where to go or what to do, please don't go AFK, or if you know you might have to go AFK, don't pick up the voice in VON 5 or the key we need please), I am going to go back for them unless it would also kill me. Whining about this will get you kicked or squelched. Whining about losing the 10% is low class and not cool. Please don't do it.

    - Those are the ones I've come across enough to note, they are not indicative of every PUG at all, and are in the slight minority, but I've run into these 5 instances enough and then had the offending party caught completely off guard when I called them on it that I feel this needs to be shared. For the most part, once I stepped off my (imaginary) pedestal and played a more active roll in helping people and not being holier than thou, I've gotten a really positive feedback and I appreciate it. Just remember EVERYONE is here to have fun, not just you. If you remember that and also think about it as if everyone who joins your group has your address so everything you say should be something you would say to their face, this will be an enjoyable experience for all. Thanks, and feel free to add/ discuss/ insult my list!

    6. I almost forgot - BYOH does NOT usually mean bring your own hireling. EVEN IF THE GROUP LEADER HAS A HIRELING, that doesn't mean you can pop one upon entering without asking. Ignoring requests to dismiss it will make a potential run go South very quickly. BYOH means bring some of the items from number 1 above. If the leader tells you you can bring a hireling, then by all means, feel free, that means if you have one in your inventory right then or are going to buy one from the store. Leaving mid quest, getting a hireling, and re-entering (it's happened, a LOT) is NOT cool. Especially if it's a quest we've been working at for a while. Please don't do it.



    * Teh_Troll and others have pointed out for random reasons I am not elite or a veteran because I haven't run with them, but I've been called elitist enough times I feel like I can safely assume that to some I may come off as such. To those who know I have not attained the "veteran/ elitist" status, I apologize profusely for using the term, and per the rules have sent you each an LDS and a link to a trial membership on emusic.
    ** no there's not
    Last edited by Llewndyn; 01-22-2014 at 12:36 PM. Reason: potions, not wands. DERP
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
    Nerf Happiness

  2. #2
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default For the Record...

    I realize this is a lot like a post I did earlier in this month. This one is one I plan to point new players doing offensive things to. The other one was offensive things I did to players for my own enjoyment. This one is more "hey buddy let's get along" and less "You dang kids get offa my lawn!"... I apologize if it seems like I posted the exact same thing twice. Thanks.
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
    Nerf Happiness

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    Teh_Troll and others have pointed out for random reasons I am not elite or a veteran because I haven't run with them, but I've been called elitist enough times I feel like I can safely assume that to some I may come off as such. To those who know I have not attained the "veteran/ elitist" status, I apologize profusely for using the term
    Don't confuse "elite" and "elitist". Two very different things. It's quite possible to be elitist without being elite or vice versa.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    Sometimes the healer is busy and you need to keep yourself up.
    Unless someone has specifically told you, "I will heal you", don't ever even assume there is a healer at all. You ALWAYS need to be able to keep yourself up.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    People die. I die. It happens. The 10% no death bonus is a BONUS. It is not something that is guaranteed, and everyone rolls a 1.
    If you die, don't release.

    I'm not going to obsess about 10% from dying, but if you release, I'm kicking you. Depending on where/when you died, I'm often nice enough to come back and get you and carry you to a shrine or raise you. But if you're out, you're out, and that's it.

  6. #6
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    - If you die, blame lag ;-)


    Most of these can be boiled down to what an old boss of mine once said to me.

    "The most valuable thing you can give someone is time - your time, and not wasting their time. Wasting their time is time they could be spending doing something else, getting something done, spending with their family."

    - If you don't know, ask - don't assume ... the way to the quest, what to do next, if you should do something or not, etc.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  7. #7
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    I'll try to keep my comments in this thread just about advice to new guys.

    Probably my biggest complaint about new guys is: if you don't know what to do with it, do not pick it up!

    Almost as bad is talking to an NPC inside a quest.... although that depends. But it is exactly the fact that it "depends" is why you should not talk to them.

    Thinking you can do the traps, but cannot... is an issue.
    Not always, but on elite.... some blown traps can cause a party wipe. Or prevent completion.
    I can forgive this one... but I do not understand why people are so anxious to show off their trap skills....
    If you are new, wait and see if someone else is going to get it.....
    I won't hate you for it, but like I said this can prevent completion sometimes.


    Levers are generally ok to pull.. IMO.
    Sometimes people aren't ready for it, but in general, every lever in the game gets pulled.
    Puzzle wheels have keys somewhere.... so don't worry too much when some guy yells at you for those.
    (but still..... if you do not know what you are doing, why try to be the first to do it? I will never understand that one....)


    In raids, it is common to have to kill something at roughly the same time as other things.....
    Also in some non-raids.
    And in several quests killing some things can cause the quest to fail....

    So generally, it is a good idea to not be the first in a room, and to watch what other people are attacking first...... and then attack the same target as someone else.
    Watch the red bar on the moster...... stop attacking before is dies.....
    Take a step back and see what other people are doing....

    You can pad your kill count when you know the quest.

    New? Let others take the lead.... watch and follow.
    Do what they do.
    Listen

    Edit: Oh, and if you die... do not release. There is almost no situation that someone cannot rescue you from. There are a few places that we cannot go back to... but very few. it just might take awhile.... try to be patient.
    Vets.. try not to keep dead new guys waiting. Reassure them immediately that help is on the way.

    Be nice!
    Last edited by Talon_Moonshadow; 01-01-2014 at 12:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  8. #8
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    1. Hjeal meh!

    2. Hjeal meh!

    3. Hjeal meh!

    That's all you need to know.

  9. #9
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Ok, if you die while running with me, you die. If you die and I can rez you, you'll get rezzed. If you die and I have to lug your stone back to the shrine, I charge and extra 20% for pack fees.

    Let's see... 20% of 0 is, well, still 0.

    Happy New Year!
    There is no free lunch.

  10. #10
    Community Member Varr's Avatar
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    There are no real quantity of new players playing DDO.

    There are current good players and bad players.

    Advice like this might "help" the bad players, but they are not reading the forums anyway.
    Varr's all over. Sarlona Varrr getting the love currently.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    Morning, and Happy New Years!


    4. .....Telling us how high you are or how drunk you are is not going to make you cooler. If you are drunk and that's how you like to play, that's great and I support that. Your lack of control is not something I care to emulate, and therefore I don't find it cool to join and say "Man I just smoked like 2 pounds of weed I am SOOOO high right now WHOOOO!" You're a loser. And you're also probably not high/ drunk.
    +1

    I enjoy the finer boxed wines when I play but I don't brag about it or try to get dates with every female who joins by talking about how tough it is finding pants baggy enough to hold my manhood in them. You're lying. Shut up.
    LMFAO

    I would also like to add the following to your list:


    - If you have a mic/headset, please have the courtesy to mute it before engaging in domestic shouting matches.
    - Please don't volunteer your life story and all of it's tragedies, I genuinely feel sympathetic, but I am not here to be a social worker.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varr View Post
    There are no real quantity of new players playing DDO.

    There are current good players and bad players.

    Advice like this might "help" the bad players, but they are not reading the forums anyway.

    Well, I'm newish. Just started playing last November with lots of old 2e TT experience, but really no knowledge of these types of games as all. I just ran across thus thread and it is indeed useful. I spent the first month running around like an idiot figuring things out. But one thing I always knew was that I should stay out of the way of more serious players. That being said, what I really liked about dd in general was playing with others. Like I said , this all really helps and the gist of the advice seems to be to cone ready to be self sufficient and don't be afraid to let others know you're new and clueless
    Last edited by sixofrock; 01-15-2014 at 08:38 PM.

  13. #13
    Death's Dominator Eth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    BYOH means bring some of the items from number 1 above.
    Bring your own ham. Lot's of it around since Colors of the Queen.
    Thelanis - Ethforged - Etherar - Fjirty --- Mitis Mors
    Ghallanda - Ethrayne - Ethryne --- Omnipresence
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  14. #14
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    1. ELITE BB may not be for you. Elite means the quest is as tough as Turbine could make it. If you don't know what the quest entails, you should probably either not join, or let the leader know you don't know what to do so said leader can plan accordingly. There are also a few things you should have regardless of the quest:
    Cure Serious Wounds/Repair potions - at least 25 Wands of CSW, or spell components to cast it if you have the spell, or scrolls also would suffice. It can get annoying to do, but it's worth it. Sometimes the healer is busy and you need to keep yourself up.
    See bold. I do not think you meant to say that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    The end all criteria you should bring with you is: "Am I going to be useful in elite content?" If you don't know puzzles, can't heal/CC/trap/DPS, and can't find the quest, then maybe learning the quest on hard would be a more productive use of time.
    This speaks volumes about quest difficulty in DDO if someone who cant heal/CC/trap/DPS still can "learn" quest on "Hard".
    Why did they even bothered to include Casual or Normal at first place? Only for vets who want to get particular reward from chain-quest giver?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    Calling someone a homophobic slur will get you kicked.
    Happened to my little brother of 12 year old, being normal person he didnt like when someone start to talk what they do with their organs and mouths and other things like that in chat and leader got angry at him and kicked him from group.

    Whatever, there is even saying: if you dont like jews, you are antisemit, if you dont like black you are racist, if you dont like man-man - you are homophob, if you dont like communists (people who belive that wealth should belong to 100% of people, not 1%), you are great guy.

  17. #17
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default Absolutely

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If you die, don't release.

    I'm not going to obsess about 10% from dying, but if you release, I'm kicking you. Depending on where/when you died, I'm often nice enough to come back and get you and carry you to a shrine or raise you. But if you're out, you're out, and that's it.
    I should have made that more clear in my post. It was a huge deal, though recently people have had the good sense to die, release immediately and then drop group, which I'm also fine with.
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
    Nerf Happiness

  18. #18
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default I agree in THEORY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    I'll try to keep my comments in this thread just about advice to new guys.

    Probably my biggest complaint about new guys is: if you don't know what to do with it, do not pick it up!

    Almost as bad is talking to an NPC inside a quest.... although that depends. But it is exactly the fact that it "depends" is why you should not talk to them.

    Thinking you can do the traps, but cannot... is an issue.
    Not always, but on elite.... some blown traps can cause a party wipe. Or prevent completion.
    I can forgive this one... but I do not understand why people are so anxious to show off their trap skills....
    If you are new, wait and see if someone else is going to get it.....
    I won't hate you for it, but like I said this can prevent completion sometimes.


    Levers are generally ok to pull.. IMO.
    Sometimes people aren't ready for it, but in general, every lever in the game gets pulled.
    Puzzle wheels have keys somewhere.... so don't worry too much when some guy yells at you for those.
    (but still..... if you do not know what you are doing, why try to be the first to do it? I will never understand that one....)


    In raids, it is common to have to kill something at roughly the same time as other things.....
    Also in some non-raids.
    And in several quests killing some things can cause the quest to fail....

    So generally, it is a good idea to not be the first in a room, and to watch what other people are attacking first...... and then attack the same target as someone else.
    Watch the red bar on the moster...... stop attacking before is dies.....
    Take a step back and see what other people are doing....

    You can pad your kill count when you know the quest.

    New? Let others take the lead.... watch and follow.
    Do what they do.
    Listen

    Edit: Oh, and if you die... do not release. There is almost no situation that someone cannot rescue you from. There are a few places that we cannot go back to... but very few. it just might take awhile.... try to be patient.
    Vets.. try not to keep dead new guys waiting. Reassure them immediately that help is on the way.

    Be nice!
    I am actually a little more of the mind that if we wipe, it doesn't take very long to start over, and by then you've learned not to do whatever you did to cause it. I think if I've learned anything, all jokes aside, it's that no matter how many lives you've done, how awesome your stats are, how cool your weapon is or how OP your build is, things can go south. QUICKLY. Being able to laugh it off and not get defensive are, I think, the best qualities a new person can bring. If I run into Relic of a Sovereign past, bragging about my roguing skillz and while typing out how my evasion and assassinate DCs are top notch run into a pit of lava and die, I get laughed at, maybe made fun of for a minute, it's usually good natured, we recall out and do it again, no biggie. I think a lot of the issues I've noted above come from people who are new to the game, feel they have to immediately be able to handle elite BB BYOH AFC West Only PUGs, die and are unprepared to just laugh it off, then rage quit, which automatically sets people on edge, culminating in a lot of people who could end up being good/ great players leaving the game.

    I've worked on the last line there and letting people know failing is not only an OPTION, but sometimes it's inevitable and nothing to be ashamed of, maybe while playing an acoustic guitar and talking like John Stamos on Full House, and it's helped.
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
    Nerf Happiness

  19. #19
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    Telling us how high you are or how drunk you are is not going to make you cooler. If you are drunk and that's how you like to play, that's great and I support that. Your lack of control is not something I care to emulate, and therefore I don't find it cool to join and say "Man I just smoked like 2 pounds of weed I am SOOOO high right now WHOOOO!" You're a loser. And you're also probably not high/ drunk.
    +1

    The stoner thing stops being cool about 5 seconds after you graduate high school.

    Oh…and the stoner thing was stupid WHILE I was going through high school. And I was only a few years off from when the high school stoner thing was originally created. So I have official street cred on this one.

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