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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellyzabeth View Post
    Yes it is, but most of your feats/enhancements won't benefits the abilities you'll be using to be effective at end-game. Better build for a straight damage FvS.
    Wow.... now I have to go rebuild my FVS.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellyzabeth View Post
    Now back on topic.
    eE viable for evoker?
    Yes it is, but most of your feats/enhancements won't benefits the abilities you'll be using to be effective at end-game. Better build for a straight damage FvS.
    Since I'll be doing my next ETR soon, what do you recommend?

    For feats, I'm pretty set on Empower Heal (for Coccoon, etc.), Empower & Maximize, Toughness & Epic Toughness, Quicken (Heal & Mass Heal), Past Life Wiz (SLA for Shiradi Procs). That doesn't leave room for the whole Mental Toughness line or that would be my next choice for the spell crit chance. What do you suggest?

    I'm a lot more open to suggestions on the enhancements. I generally go heavy into the AoV line for the evo boosts and the capstone SLA, max out my healing amp in the human line, and take a few extras like toughness in the WP line.

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastrd View Post
    Since I'll be doing my next ETR soon, what do you recommend?

    For feats, I'm pretty set on Empower Heal (for Coccoon, etc.), Empower & Maximize, Toughness & Epic Toughness, Quicken (Heal & Mass Heal), Past Life Wiz (SLA for Shiradi Procs). That doesn't leave room for the whole Mental Toughness line or that would be my next choice for the spell crit chance. What do you suggest?

    I'm a lot more open to suggestions on the enhancements. I generally go heavy into the AoV line for the evo boosts and the capstone SLA, max out my healing amp in the human line, and take a few extras like toughness in the WP line.
    From what I read, your next ETR is in primal sphere (shiradi) using a pure lvl 20 FvS (AoV capstone), which is kinda different from what I did.
    Depending on your usual leveling quests and the difficulty you are going to run 'em, i see 2 viable options.

    1. Running mostly in eE? Shiradi might be more appropriate, SP wise.
    As a shiradi your feats seems right, but I'd take mental toughness line (SP, crits, just reward) rather than Wiz PL (unless you're human/pdk)
    Even if the SLA from wiz is nice for more procs, 10 uses/rest disqualify it from a build that is tight on feats.
    All the way Charisma for more SP, pack as much spwr in fire / light / force as you can (synergies well with scourge/AoV crits)
    Twist could be e.burst fire, cocoon and either Avenging Light, Boulder or Spore depending on content/difficulty.
    Use emp+max on SLAs, balance metas on other spells as needed. More spwr is nice, but very costly on this build.
    Think over the line of more hits(procs) = more damages rather than straight damages.
    Kite packs in circles around BB for lots of procs with the right radius then dispatch evaders/statics with other spells.

    This option is viable for eE but far from what an arcane shiradi can achieve.

    2. Zerging mostly in eH 'till 28 then ETR again?
    Primal Avatar all the way, wisdom all the way.
    Feats: Quicken, Maximized, Mental toughness** (completionist if you have), heighten, Wiz PL, Spell Focus Necro, Improved Necro. +Empower if human.
    Epic : e focus necro, and 2 wis.
    (you don't have empower heal, but your spwr will easily back it up in eH, most things will be dead before they can hurt.)
    Max wis to an even number in primal. Twist acute instinct(fury), 3necro(magister), 2evoc(draconic).
    Use archon to help keep spirit boon (wis) active all the time. Only use strength of spirit when you're sure to have enough spirit charges to support it.
    Drink rage pots every 1:30 mins (acute instinct)
    As high as you can from gear/enhancements: Spell pen, Evoc DC, Necro DC.
    Main spells : Slay Living, Destruction, Implosion, meta'd BB.
    Depending on FvS/Wiz PL, drow will sometimes make a spell pen check but you will still rock the place in eH.
    Spell points management will by your main focus.
    Don't be the guy who insta-kill a 10%-hp-left-cornered-by-melees mob. Just don't, unless you have the mana pots to back it up.
    And judge your fights. Usualy melee mobs have the highest fort save (your main concern) while archers and casters are lower.
    Leave that rushing headless giant to your group, wing-off and take care of ranged/casters behind.
    And if your group dies against an eH giant because the healer was not around for 8 secs, it's a lot more SP wise to carry their stones rather than rez.
    Sad reality but true. (this shouldn't refrain you from rezing a player newer to game and teaching him the ropes).

    Back on topic,
    In my opinion, if you're shooting for the quicker way to get to 28 and ETR again, option 2 is better.
    You can still join eE LFMs, kill what you can (past lifes/gear will influence this a lot), but you may have to rely a bit more on your healing abilities while other rack up kills.

    Both options would largely gain from a 2 monk splash if you can afford a LR+3 (xtra feats, evasion, dodge, +2wis.....) as FvS capstone doesn't offer much in those scenarios.

    Hope this helps.

    Edit : forgot to add, if you can't afford a LR or simply don't want to splash, make sure you're using 2 weapons rather than a staff and make good use of the Primal's nature's evasion (left column up to tier 6). With cocoon, spirit boon and 6xwis, this leaves only 1 point that must be taken tier 3 or below at your own taste.
    Last edited by Hellyzabeth; 02-06-2014 at 12:26 PM. Reason: Added info for Primal
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  4. #44
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    Is 16 FVS enough to be a raid healer? I saw your CITW screen, do you use mass cures or do you specialize in tank healing or do you just spot heal... really fast?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Is 16 FVS enough to be a raid healer?
    What do you miss besides Mass Heal? Which really isn't needed much. Even when I was FvS 20 and had Mass Heal, I very rarely used it. Divine Wrath, Renewal, a Mass Cure or two...plenty of healing options.

  6. #46
    Community Member Hellyzabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Is 16 FVS enough to be a raid healer? I saw your CITW screen, do you use mass cures or do you specialize in tank healing or do you just spot heal... really fast?
    eN CitW was very easy to solo heal (and I was 18/2 at that time). Most of the trash won't survive a wrath+burst combo. Time yourself with the spiders spawns around legs and you probably won't even have to worry about heals. Drider section is similar but a bit more tricky. With your aura, your AoE, your canon..... you'll pick up a lot of agro. Watch those over stacked DP on you and heal as required. But more importantly, watch the spider web-line trip warning. You have about 1 sec to block or you'll be prone and ready to be killed. You need to be mobile and have good reflexes. eE CitW, there was a cleric too and his aura helped a lot, mostly once thru portals.

    I have to conceide I'm kinda quick on my keyboard too. If you take a closer look to my screenies, I have +/- 20 spells/abilities that I can use while moving/kiting due to the fact they are all within number 1-6 + a combinason of mouse thumb buttons.
    As for raid healing, 16 is more than enough with my play style. I hate casting time of mass heal even quickened, and sometimes will be deadly to you because you move slower while casting it.
    Wrath alone heals for more and you can add in a quickened+empowered cure mod mass in middle of cooldown if required. Even easier with a solid group that is half to fully self-suff.
    Between those, 3 sec cooldown renew on someone who is down to 50% will cover it. (don't wait too long as renew heals after 2 secs, no initial tick).
    In very situational emergency I will throw a heal.
    I even stopped to carry scrolls and took off scroll enhancements, getting better results by eliminating the threat rather that switching to scroll, slowly read it, then switching back to staff.
    A good trick to be an effective healer is to communicate with your group. It's a lot easier for you if the whole group stays togheter and move from 1 target to another. The more interesting part of it, it usualy makes the raid complete quicker too. (I solo healed a CitW back when my FvS was a Str based warchanter bard this way, and used only 1 pot at end fight, altho I used about 80 scrolls). If 1 of your party members deceide to split to take his own targets to show-off his 'amazing' DPS, fine! As long as DPS isn't his only trick. A spot renew from time to time is fine with me, but if he beleives I'll waste 11 other people ressources to be his personal hireling, he'll end up as a stone in my pocket... and maybe drop the stone far enough from shrine to be able to pick it up later and throw only a rez once the raid is completed.

    I only see 2 downsides of 16 FvS and mass heal.
    1. At the end of a Shroud run, you'll have to ask in party who has a poison going (if they don't carry pots).... or say nothing and laugh when they takes a 1000 con hit on a failed save
    2. Be turned down from a group because the leader don't beleive you can heal. This happened to me with PuGs but very rarely. 1 of which, the guy was being a real jerk after I told him I could heal his eChrono. So I went in solo, ran it as fast as I could, skipping opts, and came back out with a boot shard that I linked him while he was still waiting to fill his LFM. Fun times.
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  7. #47
    2015 DDO Players Council Sebastrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellyzabeth View Post
    From what I read, your next ETR is in primal sphere (shiradi) using a pure lvl 20 FvS (AoV capstone), which is kinda different from what I did.
    Depending on your usual leveling quests and the difficulty you are going to run 'em, i see 2 viable options.

    I still have 6mil karma in a couple other spheres, but that's about right.

    1. Running mostly in eE? Shiradi might be more appropriate, SP wise. I'm trying to run EE almost exclusively lately, both for the experience and the loot.
    As a shiradi your feats seems right, but I'd take mental toughness line (SP, crits, just reward) rather than Wiz PL (unless you're human/pdk) Half-elf (monk dill), so I'll skip Wiz PL and try out the M Toughness line next life.
    Even if the SLA from wiz is nice for more procs, 10 uses/rest disqualify it from a build that is tight on feats. Fair enough. It's fun to own aggro in 99% of groups though :P
    All the way Charisma for more SP, pack as much spwr in fire / light / force as you can (synergies well with scourge/AoV crits) I went all the way Wis for DCs for two reasons - 1) It's nice to throw an effective insta-kill or cometfall when needed, and 2) I never miss the SP.
    Twist could be e.burst fire, cocoon and either Avenging Light, These are my typical twists exactly. Boulder or Spore depending on content/difficulty.
    Use emp+max on SLAs, balance metas on other spells as needed. More spwr is nice, but very costly on this build. I've learned to keep the metas turned on at all times to effect Shiradi procs and turn them off on specific spells as needed.
    Think over the line of more hits(procs) = more damages rather than straight damages. This is one of the only reasons I still keep Flamestrike - it hits twice :P
    Kite packs in circles around BB for lots of procs with the right radius then dispatch evaders/statics with other spells. The dance of the FvS, lol

    This option is viable for eE but far from what an arcane shiradi can achieve. I'd prefer to save my LR +20 to skip a barb life, so it's FvS until I can HTR again.

    Edit : forgot to add, if you can't afford a LR or simply don't want to splash, make sure you're using 2 weapons rather than a staff I invested a lot of time and effort in my Twilight :P
    Responses in red. TL;DR - We're basically on the same page.

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  8. #48
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    This topic is about EE capable Divines... I'd love to know how to make them work in EH !

    I have 53 DC on my Evo spells and mobs still constantly Evade or save for half. Implosion seems to have all sorts of problems. Sometimes I get 5 mobs, sometimes I get none. In Shiradi the only time I ever really do a lot of damage is using my Wiz PL Magic Missiles. In Exalted Angel I get heaps of Spell Points, but really dont do a lot of DPS. Energy Burst is about the only thing which does reasonable damage - but even then, once again, mobs are constantly saving.

    So how are you guys getting EH content cleared? I take 30 min in VON 3, where as with a Sorc I do it in under 10 min.

  9. #49
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    67 or better implosion will get you good results, Shadows, Assassins, High Road mobs, almost all GH trash.
    Stormhorns orcs and giants, not so much.
    Some 55 necro will work on casters with Energy drain first, might get assassin too occasionally.
    Sunburst is brilliant against shadows too, but that's for cleric of course.

    53 evo is way too low.
    Ghallanda

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    67 or better implosion will get you good results, Shadows, Assassins, High Road mobs, almost all GH trash.
    Stormhorns orcs and giants, not so much.
    Some 55 necro will work on casters with Energy drain first, might get assassin too occasionally.
    Sunburst is brilliant against shadows too, but that's for cleric of course.

    53 evo is way too low.
    Yup. Btw, well done hellyzabeth!
    I have Fvs myself, fully evocation focused nova-soul. Currently sitting at 67 evocation DC (69 with AoM), I have no problem with GH trash. However, implosion does fail sometimes.
    Against Storm-horn Orcs and Giants.. yes indeed, not that much lol. DC casting is very poor on higher level EE contents. It should be.
    That's why many necromancers use energy drain first (it's easier now that they have energy drain on wail). But, FvS don't... only as level 9 spell (sigh). Plus, Implosion is bugged for like.. a year now?
    I don't think it's ever going to be fixed so, what's the point in going evocation DC caster anyways (unless you solo). As helly said, direct damage caster is a choice. Just get high SP, HP, dodge, dexterity items.. blur and incorporeal (scrolls etc) for survival and multi class. Since, Fvs has very fewer offensive spells selection.. you have to be becareful when using blade barrier etc.. some mobs switch to range. You also can't just randomly throw spells like fire storm, divine punishment, it's mana consuming and not powerful without meta magics. I personally want kills so, I have no choice, but to use mana pots sometime lol...
    What do you say to this Hellyzabeth, was it hard for you to solo that house C quest on EE? I'm sure it took you.. a while.

  11. #51
    Community Member Hellyzabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelic-council View Post
    Yup. Btw, well done hellyzabeth!

    What do you say to this Hellyzabeth, was it hard for you to solo that house C quest on EE? I'm sure it took you.. a while.
    Thanks !!!!

    Was it hard to solo? It is a very challenging quest for a character like this. With many small corridors and limited room to kite the packs of heavy hitting scorpions, coupled with golems that takes reduced amounts of light damages (and you don't want to fire burst/heal them either), it was an hard one and it took just under 1 hour to complete.

    To tell the truth, I made this character to be a resistant and useful party enhancer. It can heal, it can make it's share of DPS, is pretty hard to kill and it can also bless chests. It is one of my favorite toon in term of play-style. This character shines in a full party, where someone more resistant than you can grab aggro and group up the mobs for you to AoE nuke them. The quests and difficulty you are playing have a big influence over the result as well. This isn't the best suited character for quests where there's fewer ennemies with high HP. On the other hand, hordes of lower HP trash will fear you like crazy.

    If my main target was to solo eE most of the time, I have other toons that can get the job done quicker and safer. OP was about eE viable FvS and they are. They are better in group, but still solo viable. I've posted this to show that there is other options possible beside the 2 we always see when it comes to solo eE. Many other builds are able to achieve the same result as well; the player's skill and the knowledge of game mechanics are the main factors while the build/gear comes next.

    I don't think and never will that the devs are making quests based on seasoned players that can solo them on eE. For the majority of the players eH is already a challenge. At first, DDO is ment to be a party played game. I personally prefer party playing (or at least small groups) even if I know that my character can get the job done by himself. On the other hand, if someone's playstyle is about mastering each eE quest solo, it's good to know that with time and effort you can achieve it... but a FvS nuker ain't the best at it.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    67 or better implosion will get you good results, Shadows, Assassins, High Road mobs, almost all GH trash.
    Stormhorns orcs and giants, not so much.
    Some 55 necro will work on casters with Energy drain first, might get assassin too occasionally.
    Sunburst is brilliant against shadows too, but that's for cleric of course.

    53 evo is way too low.
    67 is what Arcanes do in EE.

    I am talking about struggling in EH content with low/mid 50s. If I had 67 DC in EH and struggled Im pretty sure I would delete the toon...

    In terms of a blaster build rather than insta-kill build - If you stack Charisma for SP, ignore Spell Focus and instead go for Crit... how are your Blade Barriers doing any damage at all? Surely everything will evade?

  13. #53
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    67 is what Arcanes do in EE.

    I am talking about struggling in EH content with low/mid 50s. If I had 67 DC in EH and struggled Im pretty sure I would delete the toon...

    In terms of a blaster build rather than insta-kill build - If you stack Charisma for SP, ignore Spell Focus and instead go for Crit... how are your Blade Barriers doing any damage at all? Surely everything will evade?
    When you run with that toon you just assume that it will always do half damage, but its still very nice when kiting, just make sure enemies don't have evasion.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by serthcore View Post
    When you run with that toon you just assume that it will always do half damage, but its still very nice when kiting, just make sure enemies don't have evasion.
    Nice in practice. But it feels like everything from High Road/Wheloon/Stormhorns has evasion !

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    67 is what Arcanes do in EE.
    Hmm not sure what you meant by this. Cleric / fvs can get higher ( practical ) evo than arcane.
    I doubt there are actually any sorcs or wizards with that high evo.
    Ghallanda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Hmm not sure what you meant by this. Cleric / fvs can get higher ( practical ) evo than arcane.
    I doubt there are actually any sorcs or wizards with that high evo.
    I wasnt specifically talking about Evo DCs. DCs in general.

    And the thing is, you dont tend to get up to 67 DC by running EE content. Im finding it stupidly hard to solo higher level EH content. And I really dont want to only run VON 3 and VON 5 all the way to 28...

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasparion View Post
    ... how are your Blade Barriers doing any damage at all? Surely everything will evade?
    Lot of things evades.
    On my character, BB DC is around 24. I'm not casting it empowered nor maximized either. The result is a pathetic low damage spell, even on normal.
    That's why I never use it, unless I want to charge scourge quicker.
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  18. #58
    The Hatchery serthcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellyzabeth View Post
    Lot of things evades.
    On my character, BB DC is around 24. I'm not casting it empowered nor maximized either. The result is a pathetic low damage spell, even on normal.
    That's why I never use it, unless I want to charge scourge quicker.
    I have a cha based fvs similar to yours and i still use it... only when i know i have the sp to spare and mobs don't have evade, heh.
    But yeah, in the end it comes to use avenging light, energy burst, divine wrath, searing light, boulder toss and the ocasional hellball and ruin.

    And i also agree that this kind of fvs is EE capabe, you just have to adapt your playstile, it isnt about burst dps, but slow and steady (for single target) dps, and high AOE'ish damage.
    Last edited by serthcore; 02-10-2014 at 11:19 PM.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    You shouldn't list low level easy epics as a benchmark for how good a build is. Solo EE highroads, stormhorns etc is about the right benchmark to consider a build as "good". It's about the right challenge for people who'd be considered "gamers" and even still, those quests aren't even in the same league of difficulty as even some current console games.

    As for your build, 20 evoker FvS just doesn't cut it. You simply don't have enough DPS to take down EE bosses without resorting to pots (do some math). You really want multiproccing spells to take advantage of shiradi, which would mean splashing some arcane levels as the easiest route.
    Does EE Thorn and Paw count?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellyzabeth View Post

    I don't think and never will that the devs are making quests based on seasoned players that can solo them on eE. For the majority of the players eH is already a challenge. At first, DDO is ment to be a party played game. I personally prefer party playing (or at least small groups) even if I know that my character can get the job done by himself. On the other hand, if someone's playstyle is about mastering each eE quest solo, it's good to know that with time and effort you can achieve it... but a FvS nuker ain't the best at it.
    Well said! And you backed up your arguments with screenshots, maths... and all that while being polite and humble! I wish more powergamers were like you, sir.
    A dedicated casual gamer on G-land. Nahiz - Dassin - Pindaro

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