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  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    HAve you considered that it is not quite as hard to play fully leveled in the best destiny that a sphere has to offer, as it is to level up the worst it has to offer?

    If you think they are just as bad, you must be a far worse player than i assumed.
    That's like saying horse dung doesn't smell as bad as pig dung though.

    It's still all dung.

  2. #442
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    Gandalf a "Wizard"

    Could

    Melee
    Heal (and exorcism the king)
    and cast force spells

    Are you up to the Epic challenge?

    How else do you get the experience to be "Epic" than to do it outside your normal sphere?

    It is getting a little annoying where this thread is going and what some want to be so called normal.
    Your lack of healing amp not my problem. Please buy and use your own remove curse pots in combat, so I don't waste mana. Not my job.

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Gandalf a "Wizard"

    Could

    Melee
    Heal (and exorcism the king)
    and cast force spells

    Are you up to the Epic challenge?

    How else do you get the experience to be "Epic" than to do it outside your normal sphere?
    Except that the Gandalf character was loosely based on the arch-angel Michael, so more a supernatural immortal than wizard in the DDO sense.

  4. #444
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    That's like saying horse dung doesn't smell as bad as pig dung though.

    It's still all dung.
    So why do you wallow in it?
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  5. #445
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemedium_jt View Post
    Gandalf a "Wizard"

    Could

    Melee
    Tenser's Transformation. Fighting Orcs is for him like Kobold Assault... and even low lvl Wizards can wield two handed weapon. His Staff/Sword style is just style, or maybe he got the feats, whatever.

    Heal (and exorcism the king)
    FvS past live + Break Enchantment

    and cast force spells
    Old school caster

    I don't believe he had fun fighting the Balrog with his Lit2 sword in his off destiny (if you see Gandalf the White as his new destiny/main destiny). But killing so many Orcs along the way he might have had enough stacks for MB and triggered it^^, who knows ;P.b Anyway for what he did he never had to leave his sphere, since that is the advantage of magic: you can do everything by casting spells.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 01-04-2014 at 09:39 AM.
    Characters on Orien:
    Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    So why do you wallow in it?
    Because wallowing in dung is the designed mechanic for gaining fate points.

    That doesn't improve the smell though, but it does make one wonder why some seem to actually revel in it?

  7. #447

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    What about people who just really hate a lot of those classes. They only really like playing sorcerers, and they are as miserable as any player ever was leveling up an off destiny when they are in any other class. Who speaks for them?
    Lets set aside the fallacy; fact - Not one single person have to play a class without an enhancement system that lacks synergy. Maybe that person might not like the class, but they never have to suffer swimming against a torrent of sewage (via a un-synergistic enhancement) to do so.

    Epic does. In order to unlock fate points.

    We've explained this to you and you keep throwing out the fallacy over and over. Either you don't get it, or you don't want to admit the fact that in Epic you either have to retool as a different class in order to take advantage of some destinies (which is idiotic - basically starting from scratch and needing all new gear just to unlock fate points) or suffer through it clearly downsized in power as a result.

    The design is terrible and the system is bad. By removing fate points from destinies and put them on their own track you fix that part. By allowing someone to ETR one sphere by using more karma from others you fix that. Here's the kicker - no time lost. it's not EASIER, in fact it'll take MORE time. And time being the ONLY currency that matters.You keep your work by slugging through sewage and tell yourself it's rewarding and others get to play a game for entertainment, just like it was meant to be.

  8. #448
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Because wallowing in dung is the designed mechanic for gaining fate points.

    That doesn't improve the smell though, but it does make one wonder why some seem to actually revel in it?
    Oh, thats because theyre not sitting in it crying, but walking around the pit.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  9. #449

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    So why do you wallow in it?
    We didn't change the way we played. Turbine designed a ditch, filled it with sewage and asked us to run through it in order to do the same thing we did before. It's clear that you don't understand that we didn't change, they changed the circumstances - and you ask us to like it.
    I don't - I don't pay people to ask me to wade through a ditch full of sewage. I ask them to provide me with premium entertainment. The numbers don't lie. The more monetized they make the game and the process of doing anything like putting a hammer to your toes, the more people will leave. Those are facts. You and others asking us to just deal with it will only shorten the time you have with the game and you won't be able to blame us for it.

  10. #450
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    We didn't change the way we played. Turbine designed a ditch, filled it with sewage and asked us to run through it in order to do the same thing we did before. It's clear that you don't understand that we didn't change, they changed the circumstances - and you ask us to like it.
    I don't - I don't pay people to ask me to wade through a ditch full of sewage. I ask them to provide me with premium entertainment. The numbers don't lie. The more monetized they make the game and the process of doing anything like putting a hammer to your toes, the more people will leave. Those are facts. You and others asking us to just deal with it will only shorten the time you have with the game and you won't be able to blame us for it.
    My point, the one people seem to hae a hard time getting is that once youve leveled up the destinies, you can find one in every sphere that has some synergy, and can use that to get the karma. OK, its not as good as playing in your preferred destiny, but its a far cry from leveling an off destiny up.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  11. #451
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    So... whats with the sudden fecophilia?

    Main: 18 Artificer, Thelanis

  12. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Oh, thats because theyre not sitting in it crying, but walking around the pit.
    Ah, so when life (or Turbine in this case) throws dung at us, we should make a dung sandwich? Interesting philosophy.

    Me, I'm more apt to question how they expect that to make me want to spend money on their game.

  13. #453
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Ah, so when life (or Turbine in this case) throws dung at us, we should make a dung sandwich? Interesting philosophy.

    Me, I'm more apt to question how they expect that to make me want to spend money on their game.
    When dung is thrown at you, dodge the dung. Dont stand there rubbing it all over you.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    My point, the one people seem to hae a hard time getting is that once youve leveled up the destinies, you can find one in every sphere that has some synergy, and can use that to get the karma. OK, its not as good as playing in your preferred destiny, but its a far cry from leveling an off destiny up.
    True. But I simply don't understand their reasoning for any sort of regression. At least with heroic TRing, I can understand that they wanted to get more mileage out of the lower level content due to the thinness at the top there was at the time. But this makes little sense as the conditions aren't such that they couldn't design it better. I simply don't see how regressive advancement like this has any point. It's like they are stuck in the mind set that characters should be weak as they level and only strong once they have nothing left to be strong for.

  15. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    When dung is thrown at you, dodge the dung. Dont stand there rubbing it all over you.
    I tend to throw it back however I can, but you keep on dodging and hope they simply get tired of throwing it I guess.

  16. #456
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I tend to throw it back however I can, but you keep on dodging and hope they simply get tired of throwing it I guess.
    Nope since you seem to be the one they are throwing at, not me.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  17. #457
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    True. But I simply don't understand their reasoning for any sort of regression. At least with heroic TRing, I can understand that they wanted to get more mileage out of the lower level content due to the thinness at the top there was at the time. But this makes little sense as the conditions aren't such that they couldn't design it better. I simply don't see how regressive advancement like this has any point. It's like they are stuck in the mind set that characters should be weak as they level and only strong once they have nothing left to be strong for.
    It has the point that making new content will take far more time than it will take to storm through it. Especially when people will rush through any new system in order to make teir toons so powerful that they can rush through the next set even faster. If you could just grow in power without needing anything that sows you down to do it, they would be hip deep in whines about how there is nothing to do.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  18. #458
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    My point, the one people seem to hae a hard time getting is that once youve leveled up the destinies, you can find one in every sphere that has some synergy, and can use that to get the karma. OK, its not as good as playing in your preferred destiny, but its a far cry from leveling an off destiny up.
    opposite class spheres and choosing the least sucky destiny for Karma are no different than leveling in an off destiny for fate points. after I go through the pain, suffering and torment playing in lower difficulties I normally wouldn't play in the non optimal destiny, I can than still be in a non optimal destiny playing in a lower difficulty I normally wouldn't play. just because when I am done with twists and can choose a destiny in a sphere for Karma doesn't make it suck any less. you spend most of your time earning character power outside of your optimal destiny/sphere than you do in it. just because we can find maybe a few ED enhancements that work good enough in an off destiny doesn't make the character suddenly have synergy.
    Gary Gygax quotes

    The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience.

    There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you are involved in, whether its a fantasy game, the Wild West, secret agents or whatever else. You get to sort of vicariously experience those things.

    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

    The secret we should never let the game masters know is that they don't need any rules.

  19. #459
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Pathological conditions do not need a rational basis.
    Well, then disregard the impact of vaccination.

    =]
    Cetus Heroic Lives: #32/32 | Epic Completionist: #20/24 | Iconic Lives: #6/6
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  20. #460
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    opposite class spheres and choosing the least sucky destiny for Karma are no different than leveling in an off destiny for fate points. after I go through the pain, suffering and torment playing in lower difficulties I normally wouldn't play in the non optimal destiny, I can than still be in a non optimal destiny playing in a lower difficulty I normally wouldn't play. just because when I am done with twists and can choose a destiny in a sphere for Karma doesn't make it suck any less. you spend most of your time earning character power outside of your optimal destiny/sphere than you do in it. just because we can find maybe a few ED enhancements that work good enough in an off destiny doesn't make the character suddenly have synergy.
    Complaining alternatively about ho the game is too hard or too easy, or three s too much or too little to do makes no sense to me.

    If you dont want the game to be sucky at all, just stay in your preferred destiny and breeze through the content. If you want to earn more power, do it, and dont demand it to be done for you.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

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