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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    It is painful to get some of these karma xp. I am currently doing the divine sphere multiple times which I think is pretty painful, but the devs have stated they are planning to put out a new divine destiny (which I hope is offensive oriented) and should make the journey less painful. Perhaps if for some reason a melee or ranged wanted to do arcane that would be painful or a spell caster trying to do something in martial or the like, but I am not sure that somebody would not iconic tr or tr with a more proper build for those destinies.
    The problem with this, for me at least, is that it would just mean playing an entire character I don't like playing in a destiny I don't like playing. At least with the current system I can hop into whatever destiny has the most minor passive bonuses on a character I otherwise like and pretty much forget I have a destiny.

    Better would be lowering the karma needed to 2 million, as I could then just do the above until level 24 or so when I'm mostly trying to knock out the low xp levels anyway. Then I can get serious about playing the higher epic levels in the right destiny for the build. The current system encourages just taking the path of least resistance throughout the process. Leveling for the sake of leveling, rather than leveling as a side effect of playing.

  2. #262
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    I have been playing Civilization III until this game comes out with new content.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    And why should the system hinder the other playstyles?

    This all hinges on the one major decision that gaining xp for specific abilities and fate points requires being in a destiny that is not favorible to the build. Weve been providing feedback that this should only be the case if the character wants to twist an ability from that destiny. Otherwise gaining XP for a specific benefit should never have been tethered to a specific destiny or sphere of destiny. People can then play how they want in all cases.

    Untethering gaining XP for specific non destiny benefits from having to be in a specific destiny or sphere allows everyone to play the game how they want.
    That would be because the system is set up for that way to be the right way. Encouraging the path of maximum time sink, in a rather ham handed way IMO.

  4. #264
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    First off, there is an important distinction to make. I'm not complaining about them, i'm making fun of them. I can do this with no malice whatsoever. Also, whose advice have i admitted to taking, and where did i backpedal?

    Secondly, my comment was about content being run, not what destiny you're in, because that is what the specific complaint was.

    Third, it makes total sense to me, that if you want to gain abilities that are specific to a mage, you should have to do some mage stuff. If you want to do that as a barbarian, then that's your choice.

    Fourth, since you have stated that your bard does 360-400 base, non-crit damage per swing in fatesinger, i wouldn't think that running in an off destiny would be a problem for you. You're certainly not getting that much juice out of fatesinger. Why don't you share the knowledge of how to do this with your fellow elites, maybe then they won't be so afraid of running in off destinies. I'd certainly be interested to know how you do it.

    You've also told me in the past, that you are capable of avoiding virtually 100% of all damage in the game purely through the use of twitch skills. With the combination of such high damage output and perfect defensive abilities, destiny choice should be virtually irrelevant for you.

    I certainly hope you are not one of those people who has ever posted at any time that epic elite is too easy. If it really was easy, you wouldn't need to be in a maxed, optimal destiny to do it.
    Is that right? Uh... no.

    1. The majority of your posting history past the point where you were polling vets for advice is in fact trolling vets with sanctimonious, half hearted, disingenuous garbage. I'm not a fan, and choose not to respond to you most days. I learned that lesson after honestly trying to help you and realizing it wasn't worth the trouble.

    2. The game systems and mechanics involved with advancing your characters are something you don't understand. Even this post demonstrates that once you wade through the drivel. What can you tell anyone regarding what you don't get? Yeah, nada...

    3. The point people are starting to reiterate after making use of the systems to advance characters is that they don't want to have to do so by weakening their characters playing in off destinies, and having to choose difficulties those weakened characters are capable of running. If it makes sense to you to weaken your character in order to strengthen your characater, then do so happily. People who don't like that can state they don't if they wish.

    4. I stated my bard does significantly more damage than the melee guy complaining about a FvS not being willing to spam heal him. And that he heals himself with no outside help. That is true. The failed math statement is all yours. Your exaggeration of my actual point is somewhat amusing. It's a terrible thing you know to misquote someone, then respond to that quote. It makes you look bad.

    5. I've attempted to get you to understand how to avoid damage on a barbarian against heroic level casters by using movement. You blew up for no discernible reason. I went about my day. Interesting how that became the statement you attribute to me. I've also tried to educate you on the use of combat feats on your melee builds about the same time. You failed to understand that too. Then graduated to mistakenly stating there weren't any trip/stunning bonus weapons available at that time. Which was also mystifying and ultimately worthy of laughter.

    6. I challenge you to find one post from me stating epic elite is too easy. You won't, because I've never stated it.

    Anything else you want to misquote me and exaggerate on?

    In the meantime, my point to you still stands. You have an awful lot to say regarding things you don't understand. Perhaps you should consider doing what others do as a courtesy to you, which is admonish less and converse more. That way, your play will continue to improve
    Last edited by taurean430; 01-01-2014 at 04:11 AM.
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  5. #265
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    I've often posted how awful it is to run in an off destiny - which, by xp, actually counts for the majority of your time, making your most enjoyable moments at max power a minority of your playtime - but, given that I'm addicted to the game and play anyways, trying to improve my toons, I've found slight enjoyment in making the best of a crappy ED work for whatever class I'm in.

    For ex., I really, really like my pure sorc in shiradi. I have decent DCs and so can use non-mm spells when mm is off timer and for maxing damage output. Concurrently, Shiradi makes my sp last. However, I decided to get 3 ETRs in the arcane sphere for the +9% crit chance (totally worth it; it's more powerful than any general arcane lore item). Done, my forth epic life is simply capping so I can ETR and get Colors of the Queen and start doing Shiradi again - and so I'm using the Draconic build to finish off my wayward, and annoying, EDs, like the entire Divine sphere and the non-Shiradi stuff.

    So it's a tiny bit fun b/c in Fury, I've taken all Con + boulder toss + primal scream. Those last 2 end up functioning as oom abilities - BT hits for around 1500 dam, PS for up to 4200 (thanks to sp and lore items). So, it's ok. A solid EH build in off destinies.

    I've found the same on my artie - you can make any destiny but GMOF work on an artie. Yes, your dps sucks and yes you'll only be EH capable (unless in Shiradi or Fury; maybe Draconic or LD).

    To do so, of course, you have to make your character's dps maxed out through items and build. Then you'll be able to slightly contribute to good EE groups or lead EH groups.

    Yes, it sucks. It's like playing with a handicap. Like you're a pro tennis player and you're gimp friend asked you for a match, so you're using your off arm to bring yourself down. But there's a tiny, tiny bit of fun to be had making the damned off destinies work. Except for GMOF, which sucks in every possible way and should be shot, beaten and hanged, and not necessarily in that order.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I have epic TRed 2 times and I'm about a week away from doing it the third time on my main melee character... I went Martial first, and then spent most of my time running in LD to build back up Martial. Zero pain, since that's a fun ED for a melee. When I collected saga exp and on a few VON 3 runs, I actually did it in Fatesinger to build up my Arcane karma (it was the only one that wasn't already at 6 million). I built up about 4 million in Martial when I TRed again... This time into Divine... I had saga exp waiting, and with a 50% pot, immediately jumped to 1 million exp in Divine... I then used an Otto's box, and picked up another 3.5 million, so now I have 4.5 million in Divine... No pain...

    I will get the last 2 million in LD to get my Martial back to 6 million Karma, and will TR again in Martial... So far, zero pain... I'm doing nothing but fun destinies for my melee...
    You've done two, refilled one mostly with an Otto's box. It's no surprise its not been painful for you.

    I admit, the first couple are super easy. You can hit difficulties on quests you haven't done for about 2 ER's. Then the slayers stack up. After about 4 your reduced to a slog. I can say after 4 times as many as you, it's not the same.

    I predict, if you are finished with heroic lives as many vets I know are, ER in it's current form will burn out players at a faster rate than anything we have seen so far. You haven't seen it because you don't play like I do. And that's ok.

    And if you cared about this game as passionately as you care about calling people out who have issue with it, you'd be not trying to get me to do something I don't like (After 3 toons of destiny farming, off destinies suck that bad for me. Turbine's design ruined it for me from the get go) and be more proactive about changing this at a Turbine level. The random agreement tossed in between your criticizing sessions is dulled out by your sheer negatively towards many players different than you. I know you don't see it that way, but just look at the responses you get. Your starting to do more damage than you realize.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 01-01-2014 at 08:33 AM.

  7. #267
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I have epic TRed 2 times and I'm about a week away from doing it the third time on my main melee character... I went Martial first, and then spent most of my time running in LD to build back up Martial. Zero pain, since that's a fun ED for a melee. When I collected saga exp and on a few VON 3 runs, I actually did it in Fatesinger to build up my Arcane karma (it was the only one that wasn't already at 6 million). I built up about 4 million in Martial when I TRed again... This time into Divine... I had saga exp waiting, and with a 50% pot, immediately jumped to 1 million exp in Divine... I then used an Otto's box, and picked up another 3.5 million, so now I have 4.5 million in Divine... No pain...

    I will get the last 2 million in LD to get my Martial back to 6 million Karma, and will TR again in Martial... So far, zero pain... I'm doing nothing but fun destinies for my melee...

    Could have easily done it without Otto's boxes, if I alternated between Martial, Divine, AND Primal, because then I'd only need 2 million in Divine per life which I could easily get with saga exp and a few VON 3 runs...

    In other words, no pain... I could easily spend the next 27 epic TRs 90% of the time in Martial and Primal, and 10% in Divine building up 2 million per life from saga exp and a few VON 3 runs.

    Or I could do it your way, which is obviously not working for you since you want to tear your own eyeballs out... Maybe you should try my way? I'm not saying my way is better, but YOU (not me) have posted that your way sucks.

    By the way, my method only works if you started the ED process with 6 million karma in Divine, Martial, and Primal, which most new players will not... So I fully support dropping karma requirements to 2-3 million... But us vets, with a little bit of thinking, should have no problem.
    So your solution is that people throw money at the game to circumvent its system.

    Yes, your comments above back up what we have all been saying - the system is flawed, poorly implemented and a tedious opposite of fun slogfest.

    Unless, of course, you pay money to circumvent it. Sure. Yes. If you avoid the system, the results are pretty good.

    So what part of the above do you not understand?

  8. #268
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    So your solution is that people throw money at the game to circumvent its system.

    Yes, your comments above back up what we have all been saying - the system is flawed, poorly implemented and a tedious opposite of fun slogfest.

    Unless, of course, you pay money to circumvent it. Sure. Yes. If you avoid the system, the results are pretty good.

    So what part of the above do you not understand?
    This is what I do not understand either. I don’t care how much extra money someone has, why would they throw it into a system that is built specifically to drain people for the maximum amount of money? Thrudh is a pretty smart guy and that is why I am baffled by this.

    If you are reading this Thrudh I hope you got a big Christmas bonus. Apparently people are waking up to the P2W and Turbine will need you to keep buying to keep the lights on.
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  9. #269
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    One thing to add regarding leveling an off destiny:
    If fate points and twists of fate didn't make a toon so much more powerful then there was no need to get all fate points available. Instead it was a nice gimmick, nothing more and similar to what is claimed by statements, such as: it is not a requirement. Imagine the more down-to-earth version of destinies, being actually destinies by wording and you had to choose, which one you would like to have. You are in one destiny and get the bonuses, if you are not in the destiny, you won't have them. Simple, right? twists of fate are the most powerful option for epic toons, in my opinion. Because you minimize trade-offs you normally had, when being in an destiny.

    Epic past live feats indeed appear as only gimmicks to me, but twists of fate are so much more powerful that you really want to get them all. Levelling in an off destiny remains tedious, though. And since epic hard is so much easier than epic elite, it becomes boring rather than earned. Sure, you get more exp. in epic quests than heroic quests but the repetition burn out kicks in sooner or later. it did on me very soon.

    Longterm play:
    One comment said (FestusHood, iirc): you are not supposed to put a longterm goal into one weekend. Basically you would agree, but what defines longterm? For me, 4 weeks are longterm. I would like to achieve something like an epic heart of wood within 4 weeks of playing, at a 2 hour/day rate. That seems reasonable to me. But currently, that seems only possible if I invest months or more. Honestly I did not even care, if it was achieved on a single weekend. But okay, I made my will save and just don't do epic TR. But that's not improving the system according to my standards. And I don't see my standards less valid then all those, who are willing to dig 6 million karmas in a hardship or even having fun, getting them.

    Thing is, MMOS need to play you instead of you playing them, so that credit goes to all, who say, abandon the game, if you don't have fun. I assume (very subjective now) that people, who are complaining want to play the game but realize they are being played by the game instead, if they joined several options. And if Turbine improved on this, they became happy.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 01-01-2014 at 08:52 AM.
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  10. #270
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    So your solution is that people throw money at the game to circumvent its system.
    No, there is no need to use an Otto's box on a melee if one has Primal, Martial, and Divine maxed out. Rotate through the 3, getting 2 million in each sphere each life, and save your saga exp and VON 3 runs for the 2 million in Divine, and you will spend 90% of your time in Martial and Primal, which for a melee is just fine. 100% of the time you're doing hard content, you'll be in one of those EDs. The 10% of the time you're in Divine you'll be doing VON 3.

    90% of your time in good destinies. 100% in good destinies when running with your guild or doing the hardest content. No money required.

    There IS a way to get 27 epic TRs on a melee with almost zero pain.

    If you're a vet who had three spheres maxed out at 6 million when the system went into effect....

    I still agree 100% that the system is not good, and I support fixing the system for new players and new characters that do not start eTRing with 3 maxed spheres. Because it IS painful for those characters.

    I already said in this in the post you quoted. Next time try reading.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 01-01-2014 at 09:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  11. #271
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    I have been playing Civilization III until this game comes out with new content.
    That's what I played before DDO. I think I'll follow your lead.

  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    No, there is no need to use an Otto's box on a melee if one has Primal, Martial, and Divine maxed out. Rotate through the 3, getting 2 million in each sphere each life, and save your saga exp and VON 3 runs for the 2 million in Divine, and you will spend 90% of your time in Martial and Primal, which for a melee is just fine. 100% of the time you're doing hard content, you'll be in one of those EDs. The 10% of the time you're in Divine you'll be doing VON 3.

    90% of your time in good destinies. 100% in good destinies when running with your guild or doing the hardest content. No money required.

    There IS a way to get 27 epic TRs on a melee with almost zero pain.

    If you're a vet who had three spheres maxed out at 6 million when the system went into effect....

    I still agree 100% that the system is not good, and I support fixing the system for new players and new characters that do not start eTRing with 3 maxed spheres. Because it IS painful for those characters.

    I already said in this in the post you quoted. Next time try reading.
    I thought everyone was doing this already, but apparently people are grinding out all 6 million divine karma at once... ew.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    No, there is no need to use an Otto's box on a melee if one has Primal, Martial, and Divine maxed out. Rotate through the 3, getting 2 million in each sphere each life, and save your saga exp and VON 3 runs for the 2 million in Divine, and you will spend 90% of your time in Martial and Primal, which for a melee is just fine. 100% of the time you're doing hard content, you'll be in one of those EDs. The 10% of the time you're in Divine you'll be doing VON 3.

    90% of your time in good destinies. 100% in good destinies when running with your guild or doing the hardest content. No money required.

    There IS a way to get 27 epic TRs on a melee with almost zero pain.

    If you're a vet who had three spheres maxed out at 6 million when the system went into effect....

    I still agree 100% that the system is not good, and I support fixing the system for new players and new characters that do not start eTRing with 3 maxed spheres. Because it IS painful for those characters.

    I already said in this in the post you quoted. Next time try reading.
    There you go speculating again. Sigh..stop grasping at thread to make this work. You simply aren't qualified to make such sweeping statements with so little experience. You can't have an associates degree in CS and then expect to be able to teach it or right a book on how it's SHOULD be done. I mean you can, but no one will take you seriously. Just like here.

    And your process for doing 2mil each life only woks if you doing all 4 sphere's. If you only doing 2 or 3 (like most people will do), the grind is exponentially worse.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 01-01-2014 at 10:24 AM.

  14. #274
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    And your process for doing 2mil each life only woks if you doing all 4 sphere's. If you only doing 2 or 3 (like most people will do), the grind is exponentially worse.
    This is not true. It's simple math...

    6 million Primal
    6 million Martial
    6 million Divine

    First TR - Divine

    Run 2 million in Divine (sagas and VON 3), 4.6 million in your favorite ED

    6 million Primal
    6 million Martial
    2 million Divine

    Second TR - Primal

    Run 2 million in Divine (sagas and VON 3), 2.6 million in your favorite ED (let's say it's LD), 2 million in Primal (Fury)

    2 million Primal
    6 million Martial
    4 million Divine

    Third TR - Martial

    Run 2 million in Divine (sagas and VON 3), 2 million in Martial (LD), 2 million in Primal (Fury), 600k in whatever you want (maybe even some more VON 3 runs in Arcane?)

    4 million Primal
    2 million Martial
    6 million Divine

    Fourth TR - Divine

    Run 2 million in Divine (sagas and VON 3), 2 million in Martial (LD), 2 million in Primal (Fury), 600k in whatever you want (maybe even some more VON 3 runs in Arcane?)

    6 million Primal
    4 million Martial
    2 million Divine

    Fifth TR - Primal

    Run 2 million in Divine (sagas and VON 3), 2 million in Martial (LD), 2 million in Primal (Fury), 600k in whatever you want (maybe even some more VON 3 runs in Arcane?)

    2 million Primal
    6 million Martial
    4 million Divine


    See how this works?? 2 million in Divine (saga exp and VON 3) every life, rest of the time in LD or Fury doing the harder content. Both of those EDs work just fine in Epic Elite. You build up saga exp in your fun EDs, and only switch to Divine for a few seconds when you turn in the saga rewards... That's hardly a horrible painful grind in Divine.

    Look, I'll make a deal with you... I'll agree that my attacks on people saying they are doing it wrong isn't doing the game any good, if you agree that your over-the-top DOOOM statements aren't doing the game any good either.

    I'll stop. I hope you stop too.

    I want the devs to make the system better. It's NOT a good system right now... But running epic TRs isn't the same as getting a lobotomy either, and you don't have to run in Magister on your barbarian for an entire life.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 01-01-2014 at 12:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    *snip*
    It does seem like it possible on paper, I will agree to that. But many things look good on paper. The Titanic looked unsinkable. At one point the world was flat.

    But one last general rhetorical question (not directed at you):

    Is this a video game or spreadsheet fantasy factory now?

    And deal on the rest.

  16. #276
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post

    Look, I'll make a deal with you... I'll agree that my attacks on people saying they are doing it wrong isn't doing the game any good, if you agree that your over-the-top DOOOM statements aren't doing the game any good either.

    I'll stop. I hope you stop too.

    I want the devs to make the system better. It's NOT a good system right now... But running epic TRs isn't the same as getting a lobotomy either, and you don't have to run in Magister on your barbarian for an entire life.
    No one is making over the top doom statements however. They are saying that If they elect to use this system at all they are forced to play a different way other than the one they want due to the system being designed purposely as a time sync. You outlined One way a VERY SPECIFIC SUBSET OF PLAYERS can get away with not being in the absolute possible worst destiny, which is great, but someone who didn't start out with destinies maxed as well as folks who want to do 2-3 but not 4 are still going to feel the pain of purposely designed unfun grind. Theres no over the top doom in there whatsoever. No one is doing it wrong when they want to continue to play how they want, which they were able to do in the past, until these systems came along which were purposely designed to be timesync in order to get folks to pay to save time.

    Now show us how the same works on a divine or caster character and stays optimal most of the time. .

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    It does seem like it possible on paper, I will agree to that. But many things look good on paper. The Titanic looked unsinkable. At one point the world was flat.

    But one last general rhetorical question (not directed at you):

    Is this a video game or spreadsheet fantasy factory now?

    And deal on the rest.
    Since there are character planners, I'd say the second one.
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    I'm surprised to have been quoted so much..that rarely happens

    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Im happy you enjoy the game so much, it might be hard to believe but most of the people on the forums enjoy the game or did at some point, there is nothing wrong with speaking your mind as to how your gaming experience with DDO could be improved, it doesn't have to mean your a whiner and you hate the game.

    And if you find the forums so bad, there isn't too much forcing you to read material that you might not like................but I can understand why someone would want to keep tabs, because it can be useful to find out stuff about what might be happening in the game, even from the other players as other sources can often not be the most forthcoming.
    I agree....but sorry..there was nothing in the original post that was someone talking about discussing what's wrong with the game or what could be improved. It was a rant post...which is what I was commenting on. I look at the forums occasionally for news and builds...that's it. I occasionally take a stroll through the rest of the forum.....


    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    So don't read the forums. Problem solved. Although we always love the whiners about whiners such as yourself. The irony is awesome.
    In the immortal words of Johnny Storm...FLAME ON!

  19. #279
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firepants View Post
    Surprise, the cat now sucks at hunting!
    I disagree, our cat brings murdered stuff home all the freaking time, and those are the lucky victims, if it's not dead already I have to cover my eyes.

  20. #280
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    They don't need to say it. It's clearly built that way. It takes a lot of playing to do these things. If it didn't, nobody would be complaining about how much work it was to do them.

    Yes, i'll grant you, if you buy all the xp, you should be able to do an entire tr in about 10 minutes, let alone a weekend. I'm all in favor of people doing this, if they want to. I'm completely in favor of turbine offering whatever they can for sale in order to keep the game going, as long it's not actually required to buy it.

    The way the ransack system is set up, and the way coms are awarded, it's pretty clear that if they are doing any social engineering, it's pushing you toward playing a wider variety of content, rather than a narrower one. So if you choose to max-obsessively grind this stuff out, because that's your playstlyle, then more power to you. I will only ridicule you if you then complain about it, and claim that the game forced you to do it this way.
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