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  1. #181
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Oh, you were going for a lousy joke? Well, congrats, you certainly nailed the "lousy" part of it.
    yup. That was my aim, as low as possible. And it still sailed above you.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  2. #182
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    yup. That was my aim, as low as possible. And it still sailed above you.
    Yes, it was so dumb that I wasn't sure that it was a joke. Congrats again. You have a gift at making nonsense.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Yes, it was so dumb that I wasn't sure that it was a joke. Congrats again. You have a gift at making nonsense.
    Maybe it's all of the flower sniffing.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guanmagi-1 View Post
    Maybe it's all of the flower sniffing.
    It certainly isn't the lag.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Yes, we all know you were right back in 2009 before you took an arrow to the knee.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    I wish there were a way to never see any of your posts.

  5. #185
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I'm not saying that any play style will cause negative consequences. The people who engage in these play styles are saying that. I'm only pointing out that their play style, which they are complaining about, is not mandated by the game.

    The reason that the play style of casual gamers isn't ridiculed on the forums, is that they aren't the ones who are constantly complaining about it. Yes, if someone makes a choice, and it's not the only choice, and then complains about the result of that choice, they are positioning themselves to be ridiculed by the people who didn't make that choice.

    If i were to make the complaint that my character is advancing too slowly, but i refuse to do any grinding, i'm sure that there would be no shortage of forumites to tell me what i was doing wrong.

    I don't grind, and my characters advance more slowly. The difference is, i'm at peace with it. The yin and the yang, or something like that.
    Not at all man.

    Your commentary is rife with sanctimonious banter that demonstrates you don't understand things. Hating on people who play differently, yet taking their advice is what makes me laugh at you. Chai put it nicely, and you still don't get it. Backpedaling is pointless. What you should do is complain less about people that don't play as you do. Much like the people who don't play like you do have already done. Out of courtesy.

    The current system does indeed force people wanting to advance their characters to spend the major majority of their playtime in undesirable destinies, at seriously reduced power levels. This makes them a burden to their party members in content they would prefer to run. Or it forces the addition of running difficulties the group rather wouldn't. Since the inception of this new system there have been complaints in parties and on these forums about people joining runs for difficult content in off destinies. The basic premise of not being able to run your character as you planned it to advance it is flawed. And it's actually good to see more people becoming vocal about it.

    What's motivation killing is running your barbarian in Magister or EA. Or your Wizard in LD or Fury. This has been pointed out numerous times in the forums. Now we are seeing more people complaining that only the high xp payout, fast run, low difficulty quests are dominating the lfm's.

    Power gamers don't generally start threads to admonish casuals. It's the other way around.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  6. #186

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    You are not paying to be entertained. You are paying for a chance to entertain yourself.
    Seriously, that's just dumb. You're saying the same thing but trying to make it different. By entertaining MYSELF I am ENTERTAINED.




    At no point have you received a guarantee that you will be entertained. So your point is even more idiotic.
    Again - the fact that the game is declining means that most peoples entertainment value is going down, if it was growing it would be the opposite. That is proof enough that overall people don't like the current view of what Turbine consider entertaining. So no, my point is accurate.

    As for declie, that is a matter of taste. It HAS declined for yoy, bit since i tend to adapt to the game, it has not declined for me.
    Feel free to argue against data black Knight. It's only a flesh wound anyways.

    Oh, they are the ones that make designs, true
    O.o
    Take a nap.
    Last edited by patang01; 12-31-2013 at 03:15 PM.

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Thats life, you cant have your mom change spoonfeed you for the rest of your life either, just so you wont have to be inconvienienced by having to do it yourself. Things change, and if you cant change, its not the anyones fault but your own.
    That's not life bud, that's business. If Turbine see fit to keep listening to you DDO is done. Not because I said so but because the numbers show it. We're not here to throw money at Turbine so they can give us stuff we don't want - they're here to make money entertaining us. Yes, ENTERTAINING us. I liked what they used to do, now I don't. I didn't change, they did. Things does change and when a company makes poor decisions they pay the consequence.

  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaden_freude View Post
    MMOs are nothing but hamster wheels. Once the new raids come out, people will gladly get on those hamster wheels. Once they have their loot, they'll be back to complaining again, impatiently awaiting the next hamster wheel.
    Lets hope it's a greensteel type loot - that adds a goal and you keep running it a long time creating lots of cool stuff. Best system ever.

  9. #189
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    What price? If you consider paying a game "price", you really shouldnt be playing it.

    Yeah, you constantly say it, but havent provided any screenshots, so i cant say for certain....
    Over and over again, I see the people who are defending Turbine's bad decisions tell other players that they should stop playing the game.

    If Turbine is powered by its fans, maybe the fans should stop encouraging people to leave the game.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  10. #190
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    I have to say . . . after reading this thread the only thing that can rationally explain the posts of some people is they are REALLY trying to get some last minute votes for "Turbine Fanboi of the year 2013."

    keep it going folks, only a few hours left!

  11. #191
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Hey, if i leave youll all drown in your own drool.
    Well at least we drown the way we want to without people telling us, how to drown correctly.... other than Turbine.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 12-31-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Well at least we drown the way we want to without people telling us, how to drown correctly.... other than Turbine. Eelse, welcome to my squelch list. Feel special, you are the 1st.
    Burn?

  13. #193
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Over and over again, I see the people who are defending Turbine's bad decisions tell other players that they should stop playing the game.
    Well, it's same reason I tell people who are hitting themselves in the head with hammer to either use the hammer a different way, or put down the hammer.

    You guys keep saying that I am saying "You should play the way I play".... I am NOT saying that..

    YOU guys are the ones who come here and see "I play this way and it's not fun"... My suggestion is to play a different way and see if that's fun, or take a break until Turbine changes the game to the point where your way is fun again.

    I do offer suggestions... If playing in off-destinies sucks for you, then get your eTRs in your primary destiny at first, while waiting to see if Turbine changes how it works... Or be a smart powergamer, and build up the off-destiny karma with saga exp and occasional VON 3 runs... Don't hit yourself with a hammer on purpose.

    There's a guy in this thread who used otto boxes, but claims that leveling in off-destiny EDs is the most horrible experience ever. Well, an instant 3.5 million experience in an off-destiny sphere, plus an easy 1 million exp in saga exp doesn't sound that horribly mind-numbing...

    I'm not saying Otto's boxes are the solution... I'm not saying Turbine doesn't need to fix Epic TR... Karma needs to be lowered to 2-3 million and Comms need to be lowered to 2500-3000... I agree with you guys there... What I don't understand is the people who keep hitting themselves with the hammer when they don't have to.

    "I hate epic TRing!" should not be in the same sentence as "I've epic TRed 8 times in the last month". Don't do something you hate. How is this hard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  14. #194
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Basically, it seems very simple to me. If Turbine really thinks this is the way to go and they really see a decent profit from doing it this way, with silly hoops and having to basically yo-yo in power and abilities of our characters to progress in the game, then I guess they should keep at it.

    But if the numbers don't pan out, then Turbine should really consider modifying their system so that at the least no one has to play in off-destinies to progress.

    For me that's all it would take. While I think it's silly that we get de-leveled to 20, especially since it is so inconsequential to do so since character level is sooooo much less power than ED level anyway, since it is only a minor annoyance of playing gear tetris to keep my character geared properly as he levels again and again (what a fun system! I get to hold on to stuff I would normally get rid of because I'll need it at LOWER levels- so counter-intuitive), it's not nearly as bad as having to play in an off-destiny just to earn fate points or EPLs.

    If Turbine changes the system I doubt it would have much affect on the people that "like" the current system, because they can still TR or play in off-destinies for whatever reason, to their heart's content.

    But maybe Turbine can make the system a little better for people that think that whomever came up with it was basically brain-dead.

    I mean look at the current system compared to their initial proposal. About the only resemblance is the name "Epic Reincarnation". It's almost like the only thing the Devs had was a working title and did everything they could to make their system fit into that title, even when it became obvious that it wasn't really a "reincarnation" at all. It's really just being level drained by the Vampire known as Turbine.

  15. #195
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Well, it's same reason I tell people who are hitting themselves in the head with hammer to either use the hammer a different way, or put down the hammer.

    You guys keep saying that I am saying "You should play the way I play".... I am NOT saying that..

    YOU guys are the ones who come here and see "I play this way and it's not fun"... My suggestion is to play a different way and see if that's fun, or take a break until Turbine changes the game to the point where your way is fun again.

    I do offer suggestions... If playing in off-destinies sucks for you, then get your eTRs in your primary destiny at first, while waiting to see if Turbine changes how it works... Or be a smart powergamer, and build up the off-destiny karma with saga exp and occasional VON 3 runs... Don't hit yourself with a hammer on purpose.

    There's a guy in this thread who used otto boxes, but claims that leveling in off-destiny EDs is the most horrible experience ever. Well, an instant 3.5 million experience in an off-destiny sphere, plus an easy 1 million exp in saga exp doesn't sound that horribly mind-numbing...

    I'm not saying Otto's boxes are the solution... I'm not saying Turbine doesn't need to fix Epic TR... Karma needs to be lowered to 2-3 million and Comms need to be lowered to 2500-3000... I agree with you guys there... What I don't understand is the people who keep hitting themselves with the hammer when they don't have to.

    "I hate epic TRing!" should not be in the same sentence as "I've epic TRed 8 times in the last month". Don't do something you hate. How is this hard?
    Because Turbine designed so that "hitting oneself in the head with a hammer" (your words) is the other way to earn whatever it is they want in game other than buying it. THe powergamers are the ones tha ttest this stuff on live because they go through it the most times. THey are the ones that figured out that "hitting yourself in the head with a hammer" is the way to quickly get what they want in the game. Its not a flaw in the way they play the game, its a flaw in the way the game was designed, or its intended to be like hitting yourself with a hammer in order to get people to pay to not have to do so.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  16. #196
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    When hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is the best practice . . . the system is broken.

  17. #197
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Well, it's same reason I tell people who are hitting themselves in the head with hammer to either use the hammer a different way, or put down the hammer.

    You guys keep saying that I am saying "You should play the way I play".... I am NOT saying that..

    YOU guys are the ones who come here and see "I play this way and it's not fun"... My suggestion is to play a different way and see if that's fun, or take a break until Turbine changes the game to the point where your way is fun again.

    I do offer suggestions... If playing in off-destinies sucks for you, then get your eTRs in your primary destiny at first, while waiting to see if Turbine changes how it works... Or be a smart powergamer, and build up the off-destiny karma with saga exp and occasional VON 3 runs... Don't hit yourself with a hammer on purpose.
    Nope, you quote a Mr. T meme and put others on the *fool* level. If you were suggesting it without using absolutes you probably were correct and helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guanmagi-1 View Post
    Burn?
    Wut?
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 12-31-2013 at 04:42 PM.
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  18. #198
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Not at all man.

    Your commentary is rife with sanctimonious banter that demonstrates you don't understand things. Hating on people who play differently, yet taking their advice is what makes me laugh at you. Chai put it nicely, and you still don't get it. Backpedaling is pointless. What you should do is complain less about people that don't play as you do. Much like the people who don't play like you do have already done. Out of courtesy.

    The current system does indeed force people wanting to advance their characters to spend the major majority of their playtime in undesirable destinies, at seriously reduced power levels. This makes them a burden to their party members in content they would prefer to run. Or it forces the addition of running difficulties the group rather wouldn't. Since the inception of this new system there have been complaints in parties and on these forums about people joining runs for difficult content in off destinies. The basic premise of not being able to run your character as you planned it to advance it is flawed. And it's actually good to see more people becoming vocal about it.

    What's motivation killing is running your barbarian in Magister or EA. Or your Wizard in LD or Fury. This has been pointed out numerous times in the forums. Now we are seeing more people complaining that only the high xp payout, fast run, low difficulty quests are dominating the lfm's.

    Power gamers don't generally start threads to admonish casuals. It's the other way around.
    First off, there is an important distinction to make. I'm not complaining about them, i'm making fun of them. I can do this with no malice whatsoever. Also, whose advice have i admitted to taking, and where did i backpedal?

    Secondly, my comment was about content being run, not what destiny you're in, because that is what the specific complaint was.

    Third, it makes total sense to me, that if you want to gain abilities that are specific to a mage, you should have to do some mage stuff. If you want to do that as a barbarian, then that's your choice.

    Fourth, since you have stated that your bard does 360-400 base, non-crit damage per swing in fatesinger, i wouldn't think that running in an off destiny would be a problem for you. You're certainly not getting that much juice out of fatesinger. Why don't you share the knowledge of how to do this with your fellow elites, maybe then they won't be so afraid of running in off destinies. I'd certainly be interested to know how you do it.

    You've also told me in the past, that you are capable of avoiding virtually 100% of all damage in the game purely through the use of twitch skills. With the combination of such high damage output and perfect defensive abilities, destiny choice should be virtually irrelevant for you.

    I certainly hope you are not one of those people who has ever posted at any time that epic elite is too easy. If it really was easy, you wouldn't need to be in a maxed, optimal destiny to do it.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Well, it's same reason I tell people who are hitting themselves in the head with hammer to either use the hammer a different way, or put down the hammer.

    You guys keep saying that I am saying "You should play the way I play".... I am NOT saying that..

    YOU guys are the ones who come here and see "I play this way and it's not fun"... My suggestion is to play a different way and see if that's fun, or take a break until Turbine changes the game to the point where your way is fun again.

    I do offer suggestions... If playing in off-destinies sucks for you, then get your eTRs in your primary destiny at first, while waiting to see if Turbine changes how it works... Or be a smart powergamer, and build up the off-destiny karma with saga exp and occasional VON 3 runs... Don't hit yourself with a hammer on purpose.

    There's a guy in this thread who used otto boxes, but claims that leveling in off-destiny EDs is the most horrible experience ever. Well, an instant 3.5 million experience in an off-destiny sphere, plus an easy 1 million exp in saga exp doesn't sound that horribly mind-numbing...

    I'm not saying Otto's boxes are the solution... I'm not saying Turbine doesn't need to fix Epic TR... Karma needs to be lowered to 2-3 million and Comms need to be lowered to 2500-3000... I agree with you guys there... What I don't understand is the people who keep hitting themselves with the hammer when they don't have to.

    "I hate epic TRing!" should not be in the same sentence as "I've epic TRed 8 times in the last month". Don't do something you hate. How is this hard?
    When you can show me that what you are suggesting is BETTER instead of just telling me then people may see you point. Your still talking in theories and it's making you look like you hitting your own head with an ACME hammer.

    The occasional otto's box for an off destiny is a very, very brief respite. One box is just a little over half of the karma needed as we speak. It shouldn't even be considered when debating off destiny grinding. All I am doing is listing off the facts AS I SEE THEM.

    1. Karma is way too high.
    2. Off destiny karma grinding will inevitably wear out even the most causal of gamer. Probably by taking way too long.

    When I say it's a player lobotomy, it is. It's a never ending grind that you have no idea about. Because you haven't done it and are still avoiding talking about your real in-game experiences with it. Maybe because you can't, since you haven't done it or you won't since it will directly contradict what you say here. It's certainly not because you trying to avoid the debate, because in fact you doing the exact opposite by claiming your theories are a better way to do it (than most if not everyone else here aside a few), when in reality YOU JUST DON'T KNOW. And the argument of "if you don't like it, do it differently" is null and void if I find the alternative even worse. The you come back of saying "well then find a new game" is exactly you telling us to take a hike.

    Things on paper quite often don't translate well to the real world (in this case, game world)

    And just because I choose to do things faster doesn't alter the possible end results. What I may feel today could very well be how many other are in a month.

    I like the game as a whole, this one aspect is ludicrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    When hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is the best practice . . . the system is broken.
    Sig'ed because it's true.
    Last edited by Drwaz99; 12-31-2013 at 05:26 PM.

  20. #200
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Well, it's same reason I tell people who are hitting themselves in the head with hammer to either use the hammer a different way, or put down the hammer.


    I do offer suggestions... If playing in off-destinies sucks for you, then get your eTRs in your primary destiny at first, while waiting to see if Turbine changes how it works... Or be a smart powergamer, and build up the off-destiny karma with saga exp and occasional VON 3 runs... Don't hit yourself with a hammer on purpose.

    "I hate epic TRing!" should not be in the same sentence as "I've epic TRed 8 times in the last month". Don't do something you hate. How is this hard?
    ive been waiting for Turbine to listen to the rants of off destiny leveling and do a fix since MOTU first came out. I started a heroic TR train 3 weeks after release on all my characters and im still on this train. when I was done with my main I leveled to 25, and did off destiny grinding for twists. I couldn't play the way I had always played before with a noticeable power dip and haven't been back to it since I finished my mains twists. I tried it their way, I hated it, I voiced my opinion among the many other people and I sit here 1 3/4 years later still waiting for Turbine to make a more fun change so I can gladly go back to what I think would be fun if made less painful.
    Gary Gygax quotes

    The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience.

    There is no winning or losing, but rather the value is in the experience of imagining yourself as a character in whatever genre you are involved in, whether its a fantasy game, the Wild West, secret agents or whatever else. You get to sort of vicariously experience those things.

    Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, its not a game.

    When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, than many online and computer run RPGs will move toward actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there" anymore than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

    The secret we should never let the game masters know is that they don't need any rules.

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