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  1. #161
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Thats life, you cant have your mom change spoonfeed you for the rest of your life either, just so you wont have to be inconvienienced by having to do it yourself. Things change, and if you cant change, its not the anyones fault but your own.
    Any business that makes decisions based on this philosophy is in trouble. Coke tried it with new coke. Look how that turned out.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #162
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaden_freude View Post
    MMOs are nothing but hamster wheels. Once the new raids come out, people will gladly get on those hamster wheels. Once they have their loot, they'll be back to complaining again, impatiently awaiting the next hamster wheel.
    Yes, because content is the driving force behind retention, and the game is currently in a state where Turbine cannot crank out new content at anywhere near the speed that the old content can be defeated and looted.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #163
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaden_freude View Post
    If the three main destinies (Shiradi, Fury and LD) were nerfed, would people still complain about leveling in off destinies?
    No, it would increase them. It would clearly show that Turbine will balance only what it cannot monetize. If there were away to monetize Shiradi sorcs they would, but it would just prove my point.

    No, it would increase them. It would clearly show that Turbine will balance only what it cannot monetize. If there were away to monetize Shiradi sorcs they would, but it would just prove my point.

    Sirgog said a while back that years ago it was ban able if you had someone else to level your toon. Now it is not ban able to allow Turbine to do the same? Look, I know Turbine needs to make money, but don’t tell me that there is balance in a game when Turbine is the one selling game breaking things in the store.
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  4. #164
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaden_freude View Post
    If the three main destinies (Shiradi, Fury and LD) were nerfed, would people still complain about leveling in off destinies?
    Yes, because leveling in off-destinies can be so useless that they would have to nerf those "main" destinies into the ground to make off-destinies on par.

    The devs already balanced EE on being in a destiny that complements your character. It is not balanced for being in off-destinies. They would have to rework a lot of things if they decided to nerf the good destinies rather than buff the garbage destinies.

  5. #165
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    OK. If that's how you feel, then that's how you feel. I mean because earning xp in a preferred destiny just has to be me asking for "free". I don't want anything for free. And I will say so, whatever you believe, doesn't matter to me. Show me what I want for free.

    "Free" exactly how? Any idea on what I would get for "free"?

    And the reason I "care" is because I enjoyed playing DDO. And I would like to be able to enjoy it again. I mean I'm already hardly playing, so it costs me nothing to express my feelings, because I doubt they can do much worse. If I didn't have to play in off-destinies to advance my character I would play a lot more.

    DDO certainly doesn't have to cater to me. But if they want my business, they should make adjustments to their system so that playing in off-destinies isn't such a tedious mess. Heck, maybe they can balance all the destinies so that there is really something there for all characters to use in EE content. But that seems a lot more work than simply not trying to make incentives to play in destinies that have no benefit to a character. It think that would appeal to more people and thus would bring in greater business to Turbine.

    Why do you think it makes sense to one day play in FoTW and be able to do EE content on a Paladin and the next day play in Magister or something equally silly and have to play EH content?
    Free, since you wish to have full power and still gain something that you now must gain at less than optimal power (or even godawful power). It has a price that you wish to avoid, thus free. I dont play in of destinies because i TR. I assume you dont, since its such a problem.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  6. #166
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    While i'm not playing atm (did check the new stuff a couple weeks ago), there is still something that has always struck me about the DDO community. Both in-game and on the forum.

    It seems that every quest that demands people to think, solve, use strategies, etc... will be avoided unless there is something incredible to get. And most likely it's gonna be one person leading a group that won't ever bother learning. Of course there are exceptions but that's what i've seen in both the pug scene and big social guilds (that would perhaps have a raid / week). So that would be the big majority.

    Now while I cannot see the actual datas, i'm pretty sure turbine is getting the same message. If so, that is a big hit to the creativity when it comes to quests design. Generic fights that require no unique strenghts is what they gotta aim for. Story can be off the hook, but not the gameplay or challenge... in an action game.

    It's still that HUGE gap between close-group of ultra knowledgeable players and some random folks that've been around forever vs the rest that knows the quests that people post for in the lfm.


    This mentality leads to : Of course it's impossible to deliver enought content when it now HAS to be beatable (may it be turning it to normal) the first day. Or people will give up and avoid it.

    Just my observation of a point that hasn't been covered much. It might not be true... but the new quests/raids vs the old ones just seem to be hmmm... different? Let's say they're not aiming for the same kind of players.

    Edit: Really hope the 2 new raids are awesome enought that we will want to run them for at least a couple weeks. I'd come back for that... they could even be both epic and heroic for people that want to stick at 20, raid a bit in between 2 TRs. Or scale every heroic raids for level 18-20 (normal level). People could start learning those if they were not at such odd levels.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 12-31-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Any business that makes decisions based on this philosophy is in trouble. Coke tried it with new coke. Look how that turned out.
    It is pretty much the business model of those businesses whose products don't involve a 100-year tradition. Ask Intel or the car manufacturers if they think it's a good idea to make the exact same product year after year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    Yes, we all know you were right back in 2009 before you took an arrow to the knee.
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    I wish there were a way to never see any of your posts.

  8. #168
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaden_freude View Post
    It is pretty much the business model of those businesses whose products don't involve a 100-year tradition. Ask Intel or the car manufacturers if they think it's a good idea to make the exact same product year after year.
    No one is asking for the exact same product. They are asking for something that is proven to work, content driven customer retention, to continue. Intel and car manufacturers continue designing for higher standards in order for consumers to continue to purchase. Intel cant come out with chips that performed at a 3 year old standard. Car manufacturers cant sell you the 2010 model as brand new even if it was rolled off the line yesterday.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #169
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Free, since you wish to have full power and still gain something that you now must gain at less than optimal power (or even godawful power). It has a price that you wish to avoid, thus free. I dont play in of destinies because i TR. I assume you dont, since its such a problem.
    That is not the definition of "free". Replacing one "price" with another is not "free".

    You are really grasping at straws to try to make your insults stick.

    You "assume" I don't TR? Sheesh, considering I constantly say that, I'm glad you finally came to that assumption.

  10. #170
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    Yes, because leveling in off-destinies can be so useless that they would have to nerf those "main" destinies into the ground to make off-destinies on par.

    The devs already balanced EE on being in a destiny that complements your character. It is not balanced for being in off-destinies. They would have to rework a lot of things if they decided to nerf the good destinies rather than buff the garbage destinies.
    No I disagree. EE can be completed in other destinies just not as fast. Nefing three destinies would take a lot less developers time then buffing 9 or so destinies. That is a pretty obvious statement. I would be fine with nerfs as long as they do not nerf ranged combat too much.
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  11. #171
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    That is not the definition of "free". Replacing one "price" with another is not "free".

    You are really grasping at straws to try to make your insults stick.

    You "assume" I don't TR? Sheesh, considering I constantly say that, I'm glad you finally came to that assumption.
    What price? If you consider paying a game "price", you really shouldnt be playing it.

    Yeah, you constantly say it, but havent provided any screenshots, so i cant say for certain....
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  12. #172
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    How does one provide a screenshot of "not Tring".
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    No I disagree. EE can be completed in other destinies just not as fast. Nefing three destinies would take a lot less developers time then buffing 9 or so destinies. That is a pretty obvious statement. I would be fine with nerfs as long as they do not nerf ranged combat too much.
    I suppose, but I don't see only 3 as viable. Fury, Dreadnaught, and Shiradi, yeah, see 'em all the time. But Draconic and Magister as used endgame for DC casters, you don't see them as much because there's no overlap: only arcanes use them, vs, say, Fury, which many melee use, many ranged use, and even support classes like bards often use it to give themselves some DPS, or shiradi, which casters and ranged both tend to use.

    Unyielding needs buffed, and I think its the biggest offender. The only use it has is getting divine might onto a character with only 2 paladin levels. It's awful DPS and it's awful at staying alive, too, because it lacks a good CC option like dreadnaught and Fury have. I stay alive EASIER in fury than in unyielding, even with Light the Dark mass healing for 800+.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    How does one provide a screenshot of "not Tring".
    ....I'm not defending the stupidity of asking for a SS of it, but I will say, come on, that's easy. Open feat bar, scroll to the top where the past life feats are, there should be none. Or if he really did NO tr, a screenshot of his toon. It won't have wings.

  15. #175
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    What price? If you consider paying a game "price", you really shouldnt be playing it.

    Yeah, you constantly say it, but havent provided any screenshots, so i cant say for certain....
    You're the one who came up with the idea of a "price". You aren't paying any price either. You TR because you like it. That's great. You should keep doing it if that's what's fun for you.

    The price is "time". And yes, it wouldn't be a steep "price" because I would enjoy it. The only reason there's a "high price" involved is because I don't like the mechanics involved. You want to consider it "free", then fine. So what? Why is it a problem that I want to be at "full power" while gaining something?

    Why does that mess with your sensibilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Yeah, you constantly say it, but havent provided any screenshots, so i cant say for certain....
    What does this mean? Is it some attempt at a joke?

  16. #176
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    No I disagree. EE can be completed in other destinies just not as fast. Nefing three destinies would take a lot less developers time then buffing 9 or so destinies. That is a pretty obvious statement. I would be fine with nerfs as long as they do not nerf ranged combat too much.
    A F2P can also unlock everything in the game without spending a dime, but that does not sound like fun either.

    I understand that you want nerfs for one very reason. You would love to go back to optimal parties where you had 1 arcane, 1 divine, 1 trapper, and a bard. These days are long gone. If they nerf as you see to it you will not see people going back to joining the optimal parties, you will either see people still playing in their tight nit communities or you will see them leave the game.
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  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    A F2P can also unlock everything in the game without spending a dime, but that does not sound like fun either.

    I understand that you want nerfs for one very reason. You would love to go back to optimal parties where you had 1 arcane, 1 divine, 1 trapper, and a bard. These days are long gone. If they nerf as you see to it you will not see people going back to joining the optimal parties, you will either see people still playing in their tight nit communities or you will see them leave the game.
    I remember seeing this when I joined (in 2008), but to be honest, I wonder whether it was more because I wasn't too good at the game that I needed the optimal party, rather than anything to do with the content.

  18. #178
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakHar View Post
    ....I'm not defending the stupidity of asking for a SS of it, but I will say, come on, that's easy. Open feat bar, scroll to the top where the past life feats are, there should be none. Or if he really did NO tr, a screenshot of his toon. It won't have wings.
    Yeah anyone can do that on any one toon that was just rolled or just made it to epic as a first life etc. Proving that one does not TR through screenshots on the other hand....
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #179
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    What does this mean? Is it some attempt at a joke?
    Its a great success as a lousy joke, ill have you know.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  20. #180
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Its a great success as a lousy joke, ill have you know.
    Oh, you were going for a lousy joke? Well, congrats, you certainly nailed the "lousy" part of it.

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