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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    So it looks like the current max (sustainable) necro DC for clerics is 68?
    I could potentially get 3 more Wisdom, so any 2 of these 3 would make that 69:
    - +6 tome instead of +5 (supposedly drops in EE of new raids)
    - Epic Completionist twist in +1 Wis (haven't even started any ERs yet)
    - Twist in +1 Wis instead of +2 Evo DC (I'll only do this if I get one but not two of the first two)

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    On another note, it must be a relief if you end up in a group with a pure wizard who casts extended rage. heh.
    Yes. Or Bard. Or hanging with melees who throw Primal Scream around. Yes, 7 minutes or whatever is better than 1:30 from a potion.

    But in addition to a stack of Rage potions, I also farmed Small Problem a while, so I could make an Epic Brawn's Spirit with 5 charges at CL15. (Though why any Epic clicky doesn't have CL of 20...)


    EDIT: Post U21 Patch 1, that goes up to a potential sustainable maximum Necro DC of 72!
    Last edited by SirValentine; 04-07-2014 at 04:17 PM.

  2. #42
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    On another note, it must be a relief if you end up in a group with a pure wizard who casts extended rage. heh.
    Was wondering if Primal screen would work for triggering Acute Instincts.

    Also 72WIS. Very nice, even 68 non-crazy is pretty impressive.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  3. #43
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    Update 21, Patch 1 is here, and with it the changes to Exalted Angel.

    I've updated my DCs in post 39. I'm still experimenting, but my first tentative plan for the new EA is as follows:

    Right now, I'm prety much set on 17 of my 24 points:
    12 Wisdom x6 up the right side
    2 Tier 1 Avenging Light
    1 Tier 5 Wings
    2 Tier 6 Sun Bolt SLA (decided I need additonal somewhat-efficient red-named DPS more than an AoE, so no Divine Wrath)

    For the other 7, I currently have:
    1 Tier 1 Light Spellpower +10
    3 Tier 2 Sound Burst SLA
    3 Tier 3 Spell Penetration
    But those 7 are very subject to change.

    Between caster level, Past Life feats, Divine Disciple, a Tier 2 Thunder Forged, Twist Echoes from Fatesinger, and 3 here in Angel, that's 49 Spell Pen without a Spell Pen feat, after level 26 (ML on T2 Thunder Forged). Adding in a single Spell Pen feat would open the option of a twist from Draconic (Magister not stacking), putting me up to 54, or only 50 at lower Epic levels (thinking Epic Reincarnation here). That's still not no-fail on Drow, but getting closer. But how much do I need it other than the MotU quests for Sagas?

    Sound Burst I need to play with more first, but I'm thinking it's going to just get dropped, with those points shifting to a bit more spellpower and SP.

    OK, going to vent now, feel free to ignore:

    Is it sad that the main change in how I spend my ED points is losing Renewal and picking up Sun Bolt? I guess I was hoping for more and better. It's an improvement, for sure! I love +3 DCs, and Sun Bolt is a nice additon, too. But it seems I'm still just grabbing a couple obvious abilities. There's no hard choices between multiple good options. Leaving the whole charges thing the same for Rebuke is especially disappointing; it was never about JUST Divine Wrath, it was about that whole set of abilities.

    I should have spoken up more (ha, ha!) in the Divine Epic Destiny thread, not just about things to add, or specific proposed changes, but also about sucky existing abilities in Angel:
    - Astral Vibrance: at least make it auto-turn-on with Ascendance and auto-turn-off when Ascendance ends. Does anyone ever voluntarily use this horrible SP-drain-thing other than with Ascendance? And having to toggle 3 times is a pain.
    - Be at Peace: Seriously, a single-target, only DAZE, not even Stun, breaks on damage, with a 2 minute cooldown?
    - The Tier 1 stuff...9 points for 10% SP? Or just a Tier 1 twist for non-Angels. That's screwed up.
    - Judgement and it's follow-ons: only a couple specific mob types. Should be at least SOME effect against all Evil, and greater against the undead/outsiders, instead of ONLY against undead/outsiders

    Though asking might not have helped:
    - asked for better debuffing options...got useless Shadows
    - asked for better CC options...got an SLA that works against the highest save, and, since it can't be boosted, is worse. DC-wise, than the equivalent level-2 spell
    - asked for dumb FvS-archon-only charge mechanic to get fixed or go away...removed from one ability that got directly nerfed (and proxy-nerfed by Sun Bolt), and left in for the other ability it applied to

    I'm sure the devs are now going to consider divine destinies a done deal, and not return to them, though. I'll make do with what I have, same as ever.

  4. #44

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    How does fully meta'd avenging light compare to unmeta'd necrotic ray in terms of non-crit damage?

  5. #45
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Thinking about a 17 cleric/2palie/1fsoul light spp/necro build. either human or sun elf, hard to decide.

    If you could provide me feedback how you are doing with your saves in ee.
    If they are ok /which i kinda doubt/ option would be 17 cleric 2 monk 1 soul for caped dodge and stance for wisdom bonus.
    Thoughts?
    I alrdy had a fsoul build where i managed to get to 1000 light spell power fully selfbuffed on slas.
    ITs possible to get more atm /was before new gear.
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 04-08-2014 at 09:07 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    How does fully meta'd avenging light compare to unmeta'd necrotic ray in terms of non-crit damage?
    I was running in Crusader just long enough to get 2 extra Fate Points from it, and now I've done my first Epic Reincarnation (Arcane Alacrity), so I'm running in Draconic to get back Arcane Karma.

    When I get back to Angel, I'll let you know. :-)

    I did drop 2 points of Str to pick up 1 more Int. I spent the 10 extra points on a rank of Tumble, a rank of Perform, and...3 ranks of Jump!

    Even though a Tumble skill tome makes it no longer appear as N/A on your character sheet, you can't actually roll, just hop, even with a skill in the 40s, unless you actually have spent a skill point. I hadn't noticed any similar issue with Perform, but I didn't want to take the chance.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    Thinking about a 17 cleric/2palie/1fsoul light spp/necro build. either human or sun elf, hard to decide.
    Human gets you more Wisdom and an extra feat. That's hard to beat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    If you could provide me feedback how you are doing with your saves in ee.
    Hadn't really noticed issues with Fort or Will, which were, I think, in the 60s. I expect to fail Reflex saves, only in the 30s there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    If they are ok /which i kinda doubt/ option would be 17 cleric 2 monk 1 soul for caped dodge and stance for wisdom bonus.
    Thoughts?
    I don't have much experience with the Monk splashes. I've never wanted to deal with the whole centered thing restricting my gear choices.

  8. #48
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    OK, just completed (as in, I'm back to 28 now) my first Epic Reincarnation. It took me 9 days, and I wasn't even super-XP-grinding. Well, that was 2 weekends and the weekdays in-between. Still, that's not too bad; much quicker than I'd typically do a Heroic TR in.

    Since I only want 12 Epic Past Lives (for Epic Completionist), versus me getting 21 Heroic Past Lives, that is not an impossible grind. If I spend 2 weeks and a weekend in-between ERs enjoying level 28, that's still 1 ER per 3 weeks...12 ERs in under 9 months. That's plenty quick enough for me.

    I ran in Draconic to get my Arcane Karma back. Loss of Wisdom hurt, but I found some use for Energy Burst, Dragon Breath, and Energy Vortex. The other spheres will maybe be easier, as I can keep my full Wisdom: Grandmaster for Martial, one of Shiradi or Avatar for Primal (thoughts, anyone?), and Angel, of course, for Divine.

    I've also decided to dump the Soundburst SLA. There just isn't a good use case for a mediocre-DC-versus-Fort-save-short-duration-CC for me. If mobs are going to fail a Fort save versus a mediocre DC, they can fail versus Mass Frog instead. I guess those points will just go to Tier 1, 10 more spell power each to Light & Positive, and +4% SP.

    I'm going to keep Spell Pen for now. It puts my max-Spell-Pen mode 2 points higher, by being able to replace Magister's Piercing with Fatesinger's Echoes of the Ancestors: Magister.

    Like I said in my other post...kind of a boring ED layout. Lost Renewal, picked up Sun Bolt, plus some no-brainers and some fluff.

  9. #49
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    So I was looking back through this thread, and this caught my eye:

    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    ...that new ring ( still don't know if it's gonna be 3 or 4 wisdom or whatever ) will prolly help.
    +3 or +4? So of course they put +2 on it!

    I've had +2 Insightful Wisdom since level 12. And +3 since level 22. Why on earth would they even bother putting +2 on an ML 26 item?

    I can see that +4 would make it a must-have, cause power-creep, etc.. But they certainly should have put +3 on it, to make it an interesting alternative to the existing +3 items.

    EDIT: Even leaving it +2, but making it Alchemical instead of Insightful, would have opened up some interesting possibilities. Though making Cannith raids even more useless by eliminating one of the few marginal uses they have left isn't necessarily a good thing.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 04-22-2014 at 05:41 AM.

  10. #50
    Community Member painkiller3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    OK, just completed (as in, I'm back to 28 now) my first Epic Reincarnation. It took me 9 days, and I wasn't even super-XP-grinding. Well, that was 2 weekends and the weekdays in-between. Still, that's not too bad; much quicker than I'd typically do a Heroic TR in.

    Since I only want 12 Epic Past Lives (for Epic Completionist), versus me getting 21 Heroic Past Lives, that is not an impossible grind. If I spend 2 weeks and a weekend in-between ERs enjoying level 28, that's still 1 ER per 3 weeks...12 ERs in under 9 months. That's plenty quick enough for me

    I've also decided to dump the Soundburst SLA. There just isn't a good use case for a mediocre-DC-versus-Fort-save-short-duration-CC for me. If mobs are going to fail a Fort save versus a mediocre DC, they can fail versus Mass Frog instead. I guess those points will just go to Tier 1, 10 more spell power each to Light & Posback!e, and +4% SP.
    I'm eager to see if you can keep up your pace (especially until sagas come back). I was at about the same pace as you, but now that most of the first completion bonuses are used (sixth epic TR) I think the pace is either going to slow down, or else I will need some sovereign pots . Keep up the entertaining thread!

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by painkiller3 View Post
    I'm eager to see if you can keep up your pace (especially until sagas come back). I was at about the same pace as you, but now that most of the first completion bonuses are used (sixth epic TR) I think the pace is either going to slow down, or else I will need some sovereign pots . Keep up the entertaining thread!
    I'm hoping Sagas don't stay down too long! They were a good part of my 20-23 journey.

    But 1st-completion bonuses were not any part of my ER re-level to 28. I used all those BEFORE I ERed.

    Actually, I think it will go slightly quicker once I'm done my 3 Arcane lives, as I'll feel a bit more confident stepping in to higher-level EEs when I'm not down 6 points of Wisdom (and when I have 10% faster cool-downs).

    I do have an XP tome, and a fair number of 20% pots, and at least enough anniversary cards to have a 50% pot running when I collect Saga rewards.

  12. #52
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    Finally located a +3 Wisdom Blue Helm tonight! Thanks, Kemp. Gear swaps followed. Sustainable DC up by 1! New gear layout in post 36. New DC breakdown/totals in post 39 (71 Necro!).

    I'm pretty happy with my level 28 gear layout right now. There are a couple minor tweaks I wouldn't turn down if I stumbled across them (see my Trade list), but in the main, I've got what I want.

    Now, in between Deathwyrm runs, while I wait for Sagas to get fixed, I can work on my Monster Manual, and Cannith Challenge favor. Oh, and getting my latest bank mule's Coin Lord & House K favor done.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 04-28-2014 at 08:15 PM.

  13. #53
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    ERed my 2nd time today, Arcane sphere, Arcane Alacrity PL, again. Decided I'd use Magister instead of Draconic to level back up, just to be different. With Sagas disabled, it's probably going to take me a bit longer to get back to cap. Oh, and I ERed on a Sunday afternoon instead of a Friday afternoon, so I didn't really put full use of weekend playing time into it.

    Also, I'm experimenting with some build details again. I don't want to impact my Wisdom or Necro DC, but the possibility of NOT twisting Precise Evocation, and instead just twisting +1 Wisdom, potentially frees up +1 Wisdom elsewhere in my build...such as dropping a Great Wisdom feat, and taking Ruin instead! Then, if I'm not going to twist Precise, I don't need Spell Focus: Evocation...so I can fit both Maximize AND Spell Pen back into my build, instead of only 1 of the two. We'll see how it plays out, how much I like Ruin, or how much I hate having an Implosion DC 3 points lower.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post

    Also, I'm experimenting with some build details again. I don't want to impact my Wisdom or Necro DC, but the possibility of NOT twisting Precise Evocation, and instead just twisting +1 Wisdom, potentially frees up +1 Wisdom elsewhere in my build...such as dropping a Great Wisdom feat, and taking Ruin instead! Then, if I'm not going to twist Precise, I don't need Spell Focus: Evocation...so I can fit both Maximize AND Spell Pen back into my build, instead of only 1 of the two. We'll see how it plays out, how much I like Ruin, or how much I hate having an Implosion DC 3 points lower.
    I still think Ruin is way too expensive, however; I can't see my caster without it. It does something nothing else can (get past all DR), and offers a consistent (if very expensive) damage option.

    It was good enough for me to drop a point off of my casters DC's to slot it in.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by painkiller3 View Post
    I'm eager to see if you can keep up your pace (especially until sagas come back).
    I just finished capping after my 2nd ER. Took 10 days instead of 9 this time (well, and that was only 1 weekend instead of 2), with no sagas. And, again, not hard-core XP grinding...I spent significant amounts of time hunting for rares in explorer areas, which is NOT the best XP per minute!

    Next time should actually go quicker, because for my 3rd and intended final ER within the Arcane sphere, I don't have to bother refilling the karma, and can run in Angel all the way up.

    And, though it's still weeks away, I think I'll do Martial, Skill Mastery, next after my 3rd Arcane. Yes, from a pure power-gamer standpoint, Fortification is better...but I love skills! 3 stacks of that, and I'll be able to break into triple digits on my Haggle score! Maybe someday I'll get Fort as well...or maybe not.

    I was originally planning to get Colors for my Primal, but now I'm thinking just Fast Healing. Random effects can sometimes be bad, but healing faster is never bad. And last of all will be Brace from Divine. Of course not Power over Life and Death! What do I look like, a hjealbot? :-)
    Last edited by SirValentine; 05-14-2014 at 07:36 PM.

  16. #56
    Community Member painkiller3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    ERed my 2nd time today, Arcane sphere, Arcane Alacrity PL, again.
    ... .
    good to know that arcane alacrity works on divine casting as well. i was going to take it on my cleric, but was worried that it would be a waste..great to know it works

  17. #57
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    What do I look like, a hjealbot? :-)
    Well . . .

  18. #58
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    Update 22:

    - New ship buff grants stacking +1 DCs.
    - +6 Wisdom tome from DDO Store means 1 more Wisdom
    - Odd Wisdom now? Twist in 1 more. Oh, need to drop +2 Evo twist...oh, might as well drop Evo Focus feat next ER, and until I get Epic Completionist, then both those can come back.

    Net effect:
    +2 to all DCs except Evocation, which is unchanged.

    So 73 sustainable self-buffed Necro DC. Updated breakdowns still in Post 39.

    Up to 4 points higher with non-sustainable buffs like Ascendance, DDO Store ability potions, or Bard help (Spellsong Trace & Inspire Exellence).

  19. #59
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    Couple updates:

    Recently picked up my 5th Epic Past Life. 7 more to go after that for Epic Completionist. Not really interested in any ERs beyond that. Have been able to spend a week or two at cap between ERs, and still get one knocked out every few weeks.

    Sunday afternoon, I logged on, looked at the LFM panel, and just managed to snag the 12th spot in an EE CitW run, led by Omnipresence. Thanks, guys, smooth run. That got me my last bit of quest favor, now maxed out. (Still missing lots of House Cannith Challenge favor, though.) It was also my 2nd-last EE. Now I'm just missing EE Master Artificer. Anyone on G-Land up for a run of that some time?
    Last edited by SirValentine; 07-01-2014 at 04:17 PM.

  20. #60
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    I always liked MA, if you could host a raid on weekend, I think I could come.
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

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