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  1. #21
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You either bought iconics, bought fvs or bought monk to be optimal ice jumping if you are cranking out a toon you don't intend to play the game with just to farm coins.
    Dude ... you are turning 99% of your posts into P2W diatribes, and they are becoming increasingly hard to understand/muddled, like you're deteriorating. Have you ever read Moby ****? 100% honest/serious/sincere question. I've said more than a few times I don't have anything personal against you and have enjoyed many of your non "p2w" posts, but it's beyond ridiculous at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Requires 12 character levels, on a build with 5 sorc levels.
    I stand corrected, and bow to your superior knowledge of prerequisites I forgot the minimum level requirement... Of course it's trivial to level a Vet 7 toon (just buy in the store, everyone should!) 5 more levels... Can be done in two evenings playing semi-casually. Or of course just XP stone a character up to high level, what/eves. Of course if you want to pay nothing you can start a level 1 sorc and in a few days have it to level 12... but where's the fun in doing that =)

    BTW I just bought a $199 pack a few weeks ago during double bonus points, and again this week another $199 pack with some nice Christmas money that was intended for me to buy "something fun with". I have a few Otto's boxes just in case I want to use them to plow through the Sorc Lives on my Shiradi caster (I've done the multi TR thing the slow way already on my Draconic caster and am not feeling keen on doing it the slow way again but I'm not 100% sure as there's a couple permutations of Sorc I wouldn't mind goofing around with while leveling)... I bought my Bladeforged 12 monk/8 fighter +5 supreme upgrade tomes, after I bought a LR+1 to get out of the Pali levels... I bought the House C challenge pack because I was tired of ****ering around with the free tokens, and I wanted to farm up a Ring of Master Artifice for the aforementioned Bladeforged (mission accomplished awesome item).... I decided against buying a +2 fate tome because they are pure convenience and I can wait on the twists, I have those on 4 other toons and getting the twist slots open sooner just wasn't all that useful to me... I also bought a couple raid timers because I was feeling too lazy to swap toons (had some already on another toon) and I wanted to run a EE VON5-6 but had accidentally forgotten to take my end reward last time... Lots of other stuff I have purchased recently in the name of enjoying the game at my pace, and how I wish to. Oddly I've been buying stuff for 4 years an I'm not getting bored and leaving because I paid to win... In fact surprisingly the recent changes to quest XP and ETR have made Epic levels much more busy lately and this Bladeforged character is so fun to play that I'd have to say I'm having more fun recently than I have in months.

    If any of the above bothers you, perhaps you should examine exactly why it bothers you and try to be honest about it.
    Last edited by IronClan; 12-28-2013 at 04:22 PM.

  2. #22
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Dude ... you are turning 99% of your posts into P2W diatribes, and they are becoming increasingly hard to understand/muddled, like you're deteriorating. Have you ever read Moby ****? 100% honest/serious/sincere question. I've said more than a few times I don't have anything personal against you and have enjoyed many of your non "p2w" posts, but it's beyond ridiculous at this point.
    Theres no p2w diatribe in there whatsoever. What I stated is true. If you want to make a toon for farming coins and did not want to play at all to make it, one of those things would need to be done.



    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    I stand corrected, and bow to your superior knowledge of prerequisites I forgot the minimum level requirement... Of course it's trivial to level a Vet 7 toon (just buy in the store, everyone should!) 5 more levels... Can be done in two evenings playing semi-casually. Or of course just XP stone a character up to high level, what/eves. Of course if you want to pay nothing you can start a level 1 sorc and in a few days have it to level 12... but where's the fun in doing that =)

    BTW I just bought a $199 pack a few weeks ago during double bonus points, and again this week another $199 pack with some nice Christmas money that was intended for me to buy "something fun with". I have a few Otto's boxes just in case I want to use them to plow through the Sorc Lives on my Shiradi caster (I've done the multi TR thing the slow way already on my Draconic caster and am not feeling keen on doing it the slow way again but I'm not 100% sure as there's a couple permutations of Sorc I wouldn't mind goofing around with while leveling)... I bought my Bladeforged 12 monk/8 fighter +5 supreme upgrade tomes, after I bought a LR+1 to get out of the Pali levels... I bought the House C challenge pack because I was tired of ****ering around with the free tokens, and I wanted to farm up a Ring of Master Artifice for the aforementioned Bladeforged (mission accomplished awesome item).... I decided against buying a +2 fate tome because they are pure convenience and I can wait on the twists, I have those on 4 other toons and getting the twist slots open sooner just wasn't all that useful to me... I also bought a couple raid timers because I was feeling too lazy to swap toons (had some already on another toon) and I wanted to run a EE VON5-6 but had accidentally forgotten to take my end reward last time... Lots of other stuff I have purchased recently in the name of enjoying the game at my pace, and how I wish to. Oddly I've been buying stuff for 4 years an I'm not getting bored and leaving because I paid to win... In fact surprisingly the recent changes to quest XP and ETR have made Epic levels much more busy lately and this Bladeforged character is so fun to play that I'd have to say I'm having more fun recently than I have in months.

    If any of the above bothers you, perhaps you should examine exactly why it bothers you and try to be honest about it.
    Ive already been completely honest about it, but instead of folks formulating a logical disagreement when they disagree, they go off on some personal rant about how I have this huge conspiracy theory, all the while attempting to deny what is happening IS what is happening. The only thing I haven't figured out, is the people who support it hand over fist, who vehemently deny it is what it is. Why? If the stances were reversed, and I was the one supporting it, Id be in full support with no denial whatsoever. Id be like "I paid, I won, whats the problem officer"? But instead we get these hilarious rants about how its not p2w due to some inane technicality that theres .00001% chance to get it in game and I saw my friend of a friends sisters mother in law get one one time after her 900th run of the same quest, so its not p2w.

    There is no p2w diatribe. I simply call a spade a spade. Those who attempt to turn it into a personal discussion in every thread it gets brought up in, simply need to own it and call it what it is.

  3. #23
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    I have personally used a 28 point, level 4, character on a server I don't play on. Thelanis. I had to level myself to level 4.


    I started off getting blues and whites from the boat house, so I could turn in for icy jump and haste pots. I never asked anyone for anything because I don't like the uncertainty of waiting factor. Then I bought my skates. And away I went.

    I do not have the right computer or my skill sets are not capable of doing the three other ways of getting purple coins in the harbor, mast jumping is still the most efficient but I cannot do it. I actually do the jump to the platform. Then, from the platform ramp to the purple. Much easier since they lowered the purple also.

    I did this only AFTER I spent hours and weeks practicing on my main servers. I still remember getting myself to the platform the first time and wondering what the heck to do. And I remember how I spent one entire weekend attempting to get my first purple, back when the purple coin was HIGH.

    Then, Turbine sold me MoTU and level 7 characters and now we have level 15 characters from Shadowfell. So much easier with a level 7. I used a level 7 on Argonesson last year, but I never bought skates. A pain in the rear to try and get purples, and being on the ramps when the skate rental wears out. I only go to that server when all the other servers have crashed.
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  4. #24
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuddy View Post
    Always thought it was a dumb game mechanic that they bury you in twigs and coal on week and then the next week noobs who did not remember, know or failed to save any are at the mercy of the AH. Also thought the game mechanic that separates classes by those who can soar in the ice games and those who really should not bother was lame.
    Not to brag or anything, but i can and have made brand new level one characters capable of consistently getting purple coins using the ramps. I've taught a couple of other people to do the same, people who have never done the ramps before. I've done it using the jump jelly cakes. I've done it with no more striding than a longstrider spell (15%).

    This is my third festivult season this year. At least one of those years, coins were dropping at the same time as risia ramps were up, probably the first year back in 2011. In all of those years, the jester was still here collecting coins for a while after the risia games started. I remember needing various twigs and coal, and turning in coins to get them, after i already had the recipes to use them.

  5. #25
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    when they disagree, they go off on some personal rant about how I have this huge conspiracy theory, all the while attempting to deny what is happening IS what is happening. The only thing I haven't figured out, is the people who support it hand over fist, who vehemently deny it is what it is. Why? If the stances were reversed, and I was the one supporting it, Id be in full support with no denial whatsoever. Id be like "I paid, I won, whats the problem officer"? But instead we get these hilarious rants about how its not p2w due to some inane technicality that theres .00001% chance to get it in game and I saw my friend of a friends sisters mother in law get one one time after her 900th run of the same quest, so its not p2w.

    There is no p2w diatribe. I simply call a spade a spade. Those who attempt to turn it into a personal discussion in every thread it gets brought up in, simply need to own it and call it what it is.
    You call a spade a spade, and mattock a spade, a pitch fork, hoe, and Axe a spade, the pry bar, the loppers and the rake, all a spade. The meaning of "spade" becomes "tool" when you call everything a spade. Similarly defining anything that can be purchased at all as "pay 2 win" makes the term meaningless when it indeed already has a meaning: "something I can buy that allows me to succeed in parts of the game that others can not succeed in without paying" is the meaning of pay to win, obstacles put in place to force you to pay or you can't participate (or you get beaten by other players who have that thing if you don't). This is true in every arena except a few unknowledgable F2P MMO forums populated largely by gamers who have never actually played a game that had P2W and thus they usurp the term soley because it's the most derogatory/inflammatory/antagonistic way to refer to their F2P MMO's attempt to monetize the game and keep the game from closing down.

    "P2W" (in quotes) is simply a polarizing insult you use to intentionally inflame and provoke. Much like calling a scientist a "moron" or something similar it's obviously not true the guys got a PHD, but it wasn't intended to be true, it's only intent is to elicit an emotional reaction. It's very obvious that you do this because the true description of "convenience items I can use to play the game the way I want" is not inflammatory enough. It doesn't do a good job of provoking the blind unthinking "I don't like this thing because someone says it's bad" reaction that is the sole intent of your "P2W" posts.

    Anyway I'm done again, I've said all I need to and clearly none of this will ever make it past the defenses you've constructed, I will occasionally disagree with one of your "p2w" posts (especially your farcical definition) simply to let people who are new around here, know that the lack of disagreement is not a sign of your narrative being correct. Mostly it's just a sign that everyone else is exhausted and no longer interested in discussing it with you.

    In any case nothing you replied to in the original post provoked or called for a your "p2w" comments, they are just more of you flogging the scattered atoms of the dried up stain that used to be the remains of a dead horse.
    Last edited by IronClan; 12-28-2013 at 08:50 PM.

  6. #26
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You call a spade a spade, and mattock a spade, a pitch fork, hoe, and Axe a spade, the pry bar, the loppers and the rake, all a spade. The meaning of "spade" becomes "tool" when you call everything a spade. Similarly defining anything that can be purchased at all as "pay 2 win" makes the term meaningless when it indeed already has a meaning: "something I can buy that allows me to succeed in parts of the game that others can not succeed in without paying" is the meaning of pay to win, obstacles put in place to force you to pay or you can't participate (or you get beaten by other players who have that thing if you don't). This is true in every arena except a few unknowledgable F2P MMO forums populated largly by gamers who have never actually played a game that had P2W and thus they usurp the term soley because it's the most derogatory/inflamatory/antagonistic way to refer to their F2P MMO's attempt to monetize the game and keep the game from closing down.

    "P2W" (in quotes) is simply a polarzing insult you use to intentionally inflame and provoke. Much like calling a scientist a "moron" or something similar it's obviously not true the guys got a PHD, but it wasn't intended to be true, it's only intent is to elicit an emotional reaction. It's very obvious that you do this because the true description of "convienience items I can use to play the game the way I want" is not inflammatory enough. It doesn't do a good job of provoking the blind unthinking "I don't like this thing because someone says it's bad" reaction that is the sole intent of your "P2W" posts.

    Anyway I'm done again, I've said all I need to and clearly none of this will ever make it past the defenses you've constructed, I will occasionally disagree with one of your "p2w" posts (especially your farcical definition) simply to let people who are new around here, know that the lack of disagreement is not a sign of your narrative being correct. Mostly it's just a sign that everyone else is exhausted and no longer interested in discussing it with you.

    In any case nothing you replied to in the original post provoked or called for a your "p2w" comments, they are just more of you flogging the scattered atoms of the dried up stain that used to be the remains of a dead horse.
    My first post had no p2w comments in it in the first place. That was your personal bias, and not my actual post, which makes you think such. Try reading my posts objectively once.

    You claim its not personal yet reply back with a bunch of personal shenanigans which simply are not true. p2w is not a polarizing insult, it is p2w, simple as that. New people do not need this personal banter to understand whether or not they agree with what I am saying. They are perfectly capable of formulating their own opinions after doing their own objective research. They will clearly see this game is more p2w than many of the shameless p2w games played by folks who own it and support it hand over fist, who are not ashamed to admit what it is and do not need to formulate some hilarious justification in order to contest the definition of what they are doing. Many of those folks who support it are attracted to those games BECAUSE they are p2w.

    DDO is the only place where ive seen 30 page arguments about the definition of the term just so people can feel more comfortable supporting it through using some euphemism to describe it. No one is "insulted" anywhere else when its called p2w. This is likely because in shameless p2w games that were p2w from day one, people who were attracted to that type of game were the ones playing it from the start, and thus dont get offended when they call a spade a spade. I also note that the people who argue like a stone wall about the definition of the term are long time vets who were here before the game became shameless p2w. Most new players see it for what it is and either play because that's what they want or don't because it puts them off. I don't see anyone whose genuinely new arguing like a stone wall about the definition as you have over the years. Like minded folks are also attracted to other shameless p2w games and therefore have no need to argue the definition, as they support it, own it, call it what it is, and are fine with it.
    Last edited by Chai; 12-28-2013 at 08:41 PM.

  7. #27
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Not to brag or anything, but i can and have made brand new level one characters capable of consistently getting purple coins using the ramps.
    Me too, in fact I posted a guide on how to do it. It is easier with leap/step/windance ability... but not required. Skates high speed and jump and the speed is optional or can be had with House P favor pendant.

  8. #28
    Community Member IronClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    My first post had no p2w comments in it in the first place. That was your personal bias, and not my actual post, which makes you think such. Try reading my posts objectively once.
    Why not just quote you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You either bought iconics, bought fvs or bought monk to be optimal ice jumping if you are cranking out a toon you don't intend to play the game with just to farm coins.
    Yeah it's subtle but if you look carefully I think you can find the word "bought" repeated three times for no particular reason except the utterly obvious emphasis you like to put on your favorite dead horse.

    I'm PREETTTYYY SUUUUUURE there was something besides inocent ice jumping build commentary behind three repetitions of "bought" before classes you consider to be "p2w". But hey maybe I'm wrong it is hard to understand that sentence as anything but a muddled "p2w" comment. You have no one to blame but yourself if people start interpreting anything you say as an attempt to bring up "p2w" especially when it's obviously an attempt to bring up "p2w"

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You claim its not personal yet reply back with a bunch of personal shenanigans
    Personal shenanigans.... is that what we call it when there's no insults but uncomfortable truths are being talked about? Dude can't you even admit you're a little obsessive about this subject being honest about it?

    I agree with you that people who come here will form there own ideas of how "p2w" DDO is or not, that's not how I meant that. I feel the need to occasionally disagree with you even though it's the same thing over and over (and I know I am obviously never going to change your mind) because I don't think it's right to let a consistently incorrect narrative be repeated over and over without disagreement just because most people are too exhausted by your um... Stuborness is a nice way to put it... To continue to roll around in the mud over it.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystera View Post
    Festival Icy Burst does NOT add to ML, I have tons of weapons that prove that. You missed what happened...the ML was increased ONLY for those that had the original Icy Burst added to weapons from the first games three years ago. This is different than items with Festival Icy Burst that were crafted over the past two years. Items with Festival Icy Burst did NOT have the ML increase. So if you add Festival Icy Burst this year you will NOT have you ML increase.

    I agree that adding new augments to Risia would make it even cooler (icy depths, freezing ice, cold iron + cold damage, etc.).
    I confess that I was lousy at the ice jumping, even with the skates, but there are players that farm the coins and then sell Icy burst kits. I hope they do it again...
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  10. #30
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Why not just quote you?


    Yeah it's subtle but if you look carefully I think you can find the word "bought" repeated three times for no particular reason except the utterly obvious emphasis you like to put on your favorite dead horse.

    I'm PREETTTYYY SUUUUUURE there was something besides inocent ice jumping build commentary behind three repetitions of "bought" before classes you consider to be "p2w". But hey maybe I'm wrong it is hard to understand that sentence as anything but a muddled "p2w" comment. You have no one to blame but yourself if people start interpreting anything you say as an attempt to bring up "p2w" especially when it's obviously an attempt to bring up "p2w"



    Personal shenanigans.... is that what we call it when there's no insults but uncomfortable truths are being talked about? Dude can't you even admit you're a little obsessive about this subject being honest about it?

    I agree with you that people who come here will form there own ideas of how "p2w" DDO is or not, that's not how I meant that. I feel the need to occasionally disagree with you even though it's the same thing over and over (and I know I am obviously never going to change your mind) because I don't think it's right to let a consistently incorrect narrative be repeated over and over without disagreement just because most people are too exhausted by your um... Stuborness is a nice way to put it... To continue to roll around in the mud over it.
    No, there is no p2w diatribe in my first post, other than what your personally biased eyes see. Anyone who reads my post objectively understands this. This topic is not uncomfortable to me, as Im not the one furiously attempting to contest the definition of the term p2w in order to euphemize what the state of the game has become, nor do I see 30 page debates on its definition on any other game sites. Call it what it is, stop denying what it is, own it and support it. Even when disagreeing, it is much easier to respect someone who states their opinion and stands by it as I have, rather than those who waffle by staunchly supporting something they will not even admit exists, and base their stance entirely in technicality of stiff absolute definitions claiming the definition of the term is equal to the sum of the definitions of each word, when that has never been how the English language works in the first place.

    Im not the one being obsessive here. You claim p2w diatribe when none exists, then attempt to turn it into another personal discussion when you error is pointed out, and have demonstrated that youre not able to read my posts objectively due to bias based on previous discussions of the topic. If you see a p2w diatribe in every one of my posts, that is your personal bias coming into play, as anyone who reads my posts objectively does not see the same.

    Heres an idea. When replying to something I posted, before clicking submit, re-read your post, and delete every personal comment from it where you are addressing myself rather than what is posted. Is there a logical premise left over which addresses only what is quoted after that is done? If yes hit submit, if no, just delete the rest and refrain from replying.
    Last edited by Chai; 12-28-2013 at 10:42 PM.

  11. #31
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Heres an idea. When replying to something I posted, before clicking submit, re-read your post, and delete every personal comment from it where you are addressing myself rather than what is posted. Is there a logical premise left over which addresses only what is quoted after that is done? If yes hit submit, if no, just delete the rest and refrain from replying.
    Try to do the same, and theres nothing left, is there. Personal bias is nearly impossible to avoid in the first place, and when you adress soemone elses comment you have to adress the comment as presented, not just one or two points in it.
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  12. #32
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Try to do the same, and theres nothing left, is there. Personal bias is nearly impossible to avoid in the first place, and when you adress soemone elses comment you have to adress the comment as presented, not just one or two points in it.
    Other than pointing it out when the other poster is turning it into a personal discussion, I address what is quoted, not the poster themselves. I challenge you to do the same Ive asked of him. See where that leads.
    Last edited by Chai; 12-28-2013 at 11:50 PM.

  13. #33
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Baloney. Other than pointing it out when the other poster is turning it into a personal discussion, I address what is quoted, not the poster themselves. I challenge you to do the same Ive asked of him. See where that leads.
    You just did it, adressed me, not my post.
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  14. #34
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    You just did it, adressed me, not my post.
    Nope. Like I stated, other than pointing it out....

    Do what I asked and see where it leads. Aside from this thread I will no longer respond to these personal rants other than reporting them.

  15. #35
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Nope. Like I stated, other than pointing it out....

    Do what I asked and see where it leads. Aside from this thread I will no longer respond to these personal rants other than reporting them.
    Nothing personal, just pointing out that even if you try (like i assume you do), its very hard to actually manage it from the point of view of the other. And the other point of view DOES count, unless you are solipsistic.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Nothing personal, just pointing out that even if you try (like i assume you do), its very hard to actually manage it from the point of view of the other. And the other point of view DOES count, unless you are solipsistic.
    If they address the post rather than the poster then the personal discussion is not necessary, regardless of PoV. If the personal rants are all that is posted, it is an indication of lack of logical premise of the person turning it into a personal discussion in the first place. If premise existed, post would be addressed and refuted sans having to make it personal.

  17. #37
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    If they address the post rather than the poster then the personal discussion is not necessary, regardless of PoV. If the personal rants are all that is posted, it is an indication of lack of logical premise of the person turning it into a personal discussion in the first place. If premise existed, post would be addressed and refuted sans having to make it personal.
    HAve you considered that the "personal" may have been inserted by you (i.e. you may have assumed the comment was personal, while it was not meant to be), since i cant always read the personal into comments made by others directed to someone else, but the one that its a reply to might.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  18. #38
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    HAve you considered that the "personal" may have been inserted by you (i.e. you may have assumed the comment was personal, while it was not meant to be), since i cant always read the personal into comments made by others directed to someone else, but the one that its a reply to might.
    That is not the case here. Accusing me of going on a p2w diatribe when theres no p2w diatribe is turning it into a personal discussion based on bias from previous discussions. He is not addressing what is quoted. He is addressing his biased disposition of myself and not the post. As ive stated, after discussing it in this thread, when it occurs again in the next discussion, I wont respond, Ill simply report each occurrence of bringing previous disagreements into current threads. Ive also done him a favor of showing an easy method of being able to determine if a reply crosses that line or not.

  19. #39
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    That is not the case here. Accusing me of going on a p2w diatribe when theres no p2w diatribe is turning it into a personal discussion based on bias from previous discussions. He is not addressing what is quoted. He is addressing his biased disposition of myself and not the post. As ive stated, after discussing it in this thread, when it occurs again in the next discussion, I wont respond, Ill simply report each occurrence of bringing previous disagreements into current threads. Ive also done him a favor of showing an easy method of being able to determine if a reply crosses that line or not.
    Oh, i wont go into this case, since i havent studied it. But you DO have a reputation for p2w discussions, which will inevitably color peoples reading of your posts. The personal color is nearly impossible to avoid, especially if you have a reputation for doing X (that reputation needs be only with the one reading the post, since its the reader that will add it)
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  20. #40
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    Oh, i wont go into this case, since i havent studied it. But you DO have a reputation for p2w discussions, which will inevitably color peoples reading of your posts. The personal color is nearly impossible to avoid, especially if you have a reputation for doing X (that reputation needs be only with the one reading the post, since its the reader that will add it)
    But its not impossible to avoid. Simply reply to what is posted rather than interpreting the post in any way shape or form. Read objectively and reply objectively. Not only is it not impossible, its quite easy to do. If they do not, and continue with the same personal rant they go off on in a plethora of other threads, they are bringing previous disagreements into current threads.

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