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  1. #61
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    Economically speaking, if triple completionist was the goal, I wonder if would make more sense to spend the 400 bucks than the costs associated with doing it "manually."

  2. #62
    2015 DDO Players Council Sebastrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishr View Post
    Second, to address a likely misunderstanding of this main point, is the question of whether completionist in itself proves that a player is skilled. This, though unrelated, is also false. Completionist can now be purchased at the cost of roughly 60,000 TP* or under $400 USD via ottos boxes. Each life with a box, if planned optimally, takes roughly 3 hours each without the use of daily dice XP augments, and obviously less if those are taken into account. So from a time perspective you need only invest about 40 hours of time in a select subset of 10 high-yield quests, and $400 of money to attain this feat. The completionist feat has been attained prior to the advent of otto's stone, however the number of players achieving this feat numbers in 10-20 in each server or less**.
    Let me get this straight. You're saying that because it is theoretically possible in a ridiculously unlikely scenario to purchase one's way to completionist, it is therefore a poor indication of player skill?

    I'm not saying I disagree with your premise, but your argument is absolutely unsound. I'm also willing to bet the number of unskilled completionists is in the realm of slim to none.

    Astreya the Unturning

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueshift View Post
    Like title says "I'm a big fan of buying triple completionist, or any completionist period."
    You're a gimp.

    Your premise is false. Like many things in life the more you persevere and speak with others who have more experience the more you learn.

    Gimp cash shortcuts make you a worse player. Read the forum posts about people who can't play without cheesing twists into their heroic builds if you disagree.

  4. #64
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Economically speaking, if triple completionist was the goal, I wonder if would make more sense to spend the 400 bucks than the costs associated with doing it "manually."
    If it were a job, then yes. But this is a game. I play it because it's fun to actually play it with my friends and to relax. There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, there is no fanfare and 7 virgins when you make it to your destination. The journey is the goal, and that seems to be what's lost on those people who buy their way to completionist. They are paying not to play a game that they are paying to play. It's bizarre logic at it's very core.

    I can just imagine playing PnP with friends and the DM announces that for a short time only, you can give him $100 and he will make your character more powerful than anyone else's. I can't imagine that campaign lasting very long, or being particularly fun.

  5. #65
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    The journey is the goal, and that seems to be what's lost on those people who buy their way to completionist. They are paying not to play a game that they are paying to play. It's bizarre logic at it's very core.
    Eh, I think both a incredibly silly things to do, but I think you're being rather reductive. If I was a guy a high paying job who enjoys video games but only gets like 3 hours to play each week, then 400 bucks to do what I want is hardly a dip in the bucket.

    I mean, it's really the same logic over all. You want to play the game how you want to play it. Maybe you have more time, maybe you have more money; if it's about enjoyment, it doesn't matter how you get it as long as it was worth it.

    For me, it seems crazy either way. 300-400 hours of video game playing or 400 bucks for some extra +1's on an spreadsheet isn't for me.

  6. #66
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    Having walked the path, I can definitely say that the Past Life Feats were of minimal interest, but having gained them all x3 there was little reason to play my main once they were achieved some time earlier this year.

    Of course the Epic and Iconic paths extend that, but take some tips from an old timer try not to obsess too much about the outcome or you'll find it a bit hollow when you get there

    46 lifes later and still counting

  7. #67
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I could totally buy enough boxes for triple completionist. My wife and I would have to have a chat, but I could toss it on the credit card RIGHT NOW. I'm not going to. Part of the fun is DOING it, not buying it.

    I'll buy convienence. I'll buy hearts of wood to retool if I screw up. I'll buy a rogue hire if a rogue doesn't join my LFM and I want/need one for the quest. I'll buy a cake even, if I'm invested and don't want to release and am solo.

    I have used the MOTU heart on a poor, poor barbarian life on my pseudo main - but the remainder of them are the normal slog.

    That's me. I suspect some people will totally buy completionist. I'm even contemplating trading (in game stuff) for a box/heart at some point when ranger comes up - but I can put that off for a while.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  8. #68
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Having walked the path, I can definitely say that the Past Life Feats were of minimal interest, but having gained them all x3 there was little reason to play my main once they were achieved some time earlier this year.
    "How many paths must a virtual man walk down before he can call himself a virtual man?"

    Bob Dylan I think

  9. #69
    Community Member blueshift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    You're a gimp.

    Your premise is false. Like many things in life the more you persevere and speak with others who have more experience the more you learn.

    Gimp cash shortcuts make you a worse player. Read the forum posts about people who can't play without cheesing twists into their heroic builds if you disagree.
    ahw big salty crybaby.. did i hurt your feewings?? maybe mama will give you a cookie for all your hard work to get completionist.

  10. #70
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    I'm amazed at the folks who think this feat is powerful, much less "overpowered".

    I have two characters that are completionists, and it is practically the next feat to get scrapped on both of them if a more useful feat is ever introduced.

    Its benefits for my fighter: +2 str, 28 hp, +2 to all saves (1 from the charisma modifier), +3 repair, +1 extra strength from the charisma via divine might

    Note: I wrote benefits. You can sit there and dent your keyboard in all you want about all of the things it gives you - but most of it is utter nonsense for any given build. I don't benefit from the intel, nor from the jump, concentration, balance, bluff, diplo, disable device, haggle, heal, hide, intimidate, listen, move silently, open lock, perform, spellcraft, spot, swim, tumble, and EVEN UMD - since this character is sitting at like a 50 anyway.

    If you want to evaluate the feat, then the way to do it is to evaluate the RELEVANT benefits it gives you - not the whole raft of benefits it gives to all classes and mistakenly apply it to a specific character.

    In the end, my fighter gets the benefit of: +3 repair for better recons, +2 strength, +2 charisma (and associated bonus with divine might and divine grace), +1 to saves, 28 HP.

    Competing feats: Manyshot (and the pre-reqs), Stunning Blow, Power Attack, Weapon spec and greater weapon focus as reqs, overwhelming critical, master of forms, zen archery, THF (monk bonus feat), ITHF, Cleave, Great Cleave, Bow Strength, Improved Critical Slashing and Ranged.

    Hell, you can even drop ITHF and pick up precise shot if you wish - ALL of those feats are objectively better (or worse but are required) than what completionist offers - hence it is on its way out as soon as another useful feat is implemented. Yet it required ALL that grind to acquire, and it is still competing for these feat slots.

    keep in mind that this is on a build that makes excellent use of it due to the added perks associated with higher charisma.

    My Sorcerer:

    All the benefits he gets at the moment: +1 to enchant and evo DC's, +3 spellcraft, +3 Heal, +28 hp

    I'm not mentioning the +1 to saves because my pure sorc is not even within the d20 die to make the saves against the hardest EE content, he doesn't rely on saves to be efficient therefore rendering this bonus negligible.

    Competing feats? Wizzy past life, Evo focus, greater evo focus, enchantment focus, greater enchantment focus, maximize, empower, heighten, quicken, mental toughness, improved mental toughness, great charisma..etc..

    MOST of those feats are better, in the case of the great charisma - it gives half the charisma benefit without ANY of the grind that completionist requires. My sorc only uses evocation and enchantment spells for the most part, with a little bit of conjuration and necro sprinkled in - but really, the only benefit completionist is giving him throughout the time I play is +1 evo and +1 enchant.


    So, now that the proper review of the feat is provided, I take the position that it is powerful enough to be worth the grind it requires only as a passive implementation. Otherwise, its just a placeholder until better stuff is released.
    Cetus Heroic Lives: #32/32 | Epic Completionist: #20/24 | Iconic Lives: #6/6
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  11. #71
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Really? After taking your top 9 feats, you think you can find a 10th feat better than completionist? (That's for builds with ZERO bonus feats - many builds will have 12-15 feats, so those, you're saying, after taking 14 good feats, you can find a 15th feat that offers more than +2 to all stats, and +1 to all skills?)

    I'm okay with completionist being passive as a reward for all the work... but don't try to pretend it's a weak feat.
    OK Let's assume you want to stay Pure - Or at least NOT be taking 2 Fighter/Monk Levels for extra Feats.

    2nd Lets' assume you don't want to be Human.

    Now Let's take Paladin as our example:

    Sword & Board at Lvl 20 = Toughness, Dodge, Shield Mastery, Imp Shield Mastery, Shield Deflection, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Imp Crit!
    We're already TWO Feats over!
    And we haven't taken Exotic Wpn Prof B-Sword, The Two Handed Fighting Line or The Shield Bashing Feats!
    Then there's Mobility, Spring Attack and Whirlwind too!

    How about Two Wpn Fighting Pally at Lvl 20?
    TWF, Imp TWF, Greater TWF, Oversized TWF, Exotic Wpn Prof: Khopesh, Imp Crit: Slashing, Dodge
    No room for Toughness, Mobility, Spring Attack, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Precision, Whirlwind!


    Then we get to the one thing people keep ignoring when it comes to viability of Feats and that everyone {no matter what class} has more than enough!
    i.e.
    Order!

    Where would you put Completionist in your Feat Order exactly?

    It's a Feat I'd want as early as Possible personally NOT just at Lvl 27/28!


    EDIT: There's also the Flavour Build Hunter of The Dead Paladin who to be even barely viable at his namesake needs to take Extra Turning and Improved Turning!

    Oh and of course I haven't yet mentioned Extend or Empower Healing have I?
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 12-20-2013 at 10:20 PM.

  12. #72
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    I think completionist is pretty nice. No way in hell id ever take the time to tr that many times, expecially now, but its a nice feat. So nice.... mwahaha....Hey turb, psst, I bet the completionist feat would sell good if you put it in the store. haha.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  13. #73
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xianio View Post
    Eh, I think both a incredibly silly things to do, but I think you're being rather reductive. If I was a guy a high paying job who enjoys video games but only gets like 3 hours to play each week, then 400 bucks to do what I want is hardly a dip in the bucket.

    I mean, it's really the same logic over all. You want to play the game how you want to play it. Maybe you have more time, maybe you have more money; if it's about enjoyment, it doesn't matter how you get it as long as it was worth it.

    For me, it seems crazy either way. 300-400 hours of video game playing or 400 bucks for some extra +1's on an spreadsheet isn't for me.
    The amount of time or money you have has absolutely nothing to do with it. This is not a concrete commodity. It's a game. You play a game to have fun, not as some sort of investment of money or time. Play when you want, how you want, spend whatever makes you happy... just remember that it's supposed to be fun, not work.

    But hey, I guess if setting and achieving imaginary goals is what makes you happy, more power to you.

  14. #74
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    I'm amazed at the folks who think this feat is powerful, much less "overpowered".



    Its benefits for my fighter: +2 str, 28 hp, +2 to all saves (1 from the charisma modifier), +3 repair, +1 extra strength from the charisma via divine might


    In the end, my fighter gets the benefit of: +3 repair for better recons, +2 strength, +2 charisma (and associated bonus with divine might and divine grace), +1 to saves, 28 HP.

    Competing feats: Manyshot (and the pre-reqs), Stunning Blow, Power Attack, Weapon spec and greater weapon focus as reqs, overwhelming critical, master of forms, zen archery, THF (monk bonus feat), ITHF, Cleave, Great Cleave, Bow Strength, Improved Critical Slashing and Ranged.

    My Sorcerer:

    All the benefits he gets at the moment: +1 to enchant and evo DC's, +3 spellcraft, +3 Heal, +28 hp


    Competing feats? Wizzy past life, Evo focus, greater evo focus, enchantment focus, greater enchantment focus, maximize, empower, heighten, quicken, mental toughness, improved mental toughness, great charisma..etc..

    MOST of those feats are better, in the case of the great charisma - it gives half the charisma benefit without ANY of the grind that completionist requires. My sorc only uses evocation and enchantment spells for the most part, with a little bit of conjuration and necro sprinkled in - but really, the only benefit completionist is giving him throughout the time I play is +1 evo and +1 enchant.
    So your saying +2 to str(3 from dmight) 28 hp +2 to saves arent worth it with 1 feat +the fact that it adds possibly +2 to your stunning blow. Ok.. On that build not that hot as it alrdy got high enough saves and everything.. Still its a bonus you can fit in once cap reaches 30.

    About sorc.. Im realy amazed by what you wrote. Truly amazed...

    Competing feats? Wizzy past life, Evo focus, greater evo focus, enchantment focus, greater enchantment focus, maximize, empower, heighten, quicken, mental toughness, improved mental toughness, great charisma..etc..

    Beside mental toughenes and metas you add focus feats as competers? All i can say: "Bravo" as im truly amazed how you can say 1 focus is competing with completionist.. Bravo and good job...
    People want that the game adepts the way they play not like most play, and those that want that are selfish and want all benefits for themself, i find it funny reading forums usualy. Just recently have i started to write as due to longer server downtimes.. I should stop, just makes my head hurt.

    The fact alone that i got completionst is reward enough for me, i consider the feat something that proves that i did this road and i enjoyed it. I dont need +100 to awesomnes, golden wings and a mininuke active because i spend more time then most other playing this game..

    I do welcome the benefits tho, do i need em? No. As people only talk about the benefit of completionst.. Do you include all the other past lifes bonuses that you got on the way with completionist?
    As http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats are all part of the completionist feat as well..
    Only thing that i might consider being ok is to upgrade the feat somehow if you got it double or triple, and even that i might reconsinder if it were to be to unbalanced like a simple doubling or tripling of benefits.
    Even upgrade isnt smthn needed, its ok as it is
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 12-21-2013 at 01:04 AM.

  15. #75
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackheartox View Post
    The fact alone that i got completionst is reward enough for me, i consider the feat something that proves that i did this road and i enjoyed it. I dont need +100 to awesomnes, golden wings and a mininuke active because i spend more time then most other playing this game..

    I do welcome the benefits tho, do i need em? No. As people only talk about the benefit of completionst.. Do you include all the other past lifes bonuses that you got on the way with completionist?
    As http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats are all part of the completionist feat as well..
    Only thing that i might consider being ok is to upgrade the feat somehow if you got it double or triple, and even that i might reconsinder if it were to be to unbalanced like a simple doubling or tripling of benefits.
    Even upgrade isnt smthn needed, its ok as it is
    So Over...Are you really against Turbine allowing Completionist to become a PASSIVE Feat...Say on 2x Completionist {and maybe a New Active Benefit upon Triple Completion}?

    And chances are it'll be another year or two before I get Molineux to Completionist BUT I'm really not liking that all that effort could be for nothing and I won't even be able to afford to take the Feat in the First Place!

  16. #76
    Community Member Blackheartox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    So Over...Are you really against Turbine allowing Completionist to become a PASSIVE Feat...Say on 2x Completionist {and maybe a New Active Benefit upon Triple Completion}?And chances are it'll be another year or two before I get Molineux to Completionist BUT I'm really not liking that all that effort could be for nothing and I won't even be able to afford to take the Feat in the First Place!
    Im not against it, i would find it quite nice and welcome it with arms spread wide, and to buff it for double /triple to make stacking worth.
    But its not needed as with getting triple you alrdy gain many benefits from past lifes.
    Completionist was never intended as a goal but as a way for turbine to keep players busy.
    Those that think of completionist as a goal they need to be rewarded for are the wrong ones imo.

    Il leave turbine to do what they think is best, they did a good job with epic past lifes, the system of gaining them is tiring but past lifes on their own are ok and mostly good with some pros and cons (depends on personal preferences).
    If turbine thought that completionist as feat needed to be a passive or to make it stack/upgrade,
    im pretty sure they would offerd us that suggestion alrdy.

    If i remember right they have alrdy asked us on several ideas about iconic & epic completionist in the surveys
    (if you filled it out you would know what they have in plans).

    We as community should come up with legit ideas, not some giberish talk about p2w or give xxxx to xxx so that my build alone gets stronger.Why legit and good ideas? Simply, if i was a dev and would look at a thread with nerd rage and no reasonable idea with 100+ pages, i would totaly ignore it
    Most i see here so far is that kind of pointless talk. But back to game, xp calls me

    Right to add what friend told when i said to him about this thread: best would be to become passive after triple
    Took him 10 seconds to come up with the idea, same as yours, so i might add that great minds think alike heh
    Last edited by Blackheartox; 12-21-2013 at 07:34 AM.

  17. #77
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    Make it a passive free feat.

    Nerf it to +1 all skills and stats.

    Can be acquired 3 times.

    Teolololol.
    All my posts are trolled by autocorrect and the edit button not working on smartphone browsers. That's also why I make multiple posts in a row instead of editing.

  18. #78
    2014 DDO Players Council ishr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastrd View Post
    Let me get this straight. You're saying that because it is theoretically possible in a ridiculously unlikely scenario to purchase one's way to completionist, it is therefore a poor indication of player skill?

    I'm not saying I disagree with your premise, but your argument is absolutely unsound. I'm also willing to bet the number of unskilled completionists is in the realm of slim to none.
    i use the cash analysis to illustrate a point of how easy it is. there are even easier methods for completing this feat at much less cost.

  19. #79
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    I wouldn't say that it is unrealistic, there's lots of people buying these Otto boxes to speed up their past life grinds

    They might not buy them for every life ofc, but they still cheapen the value of completionist when such a P2W method exists.
    All my posts are trolled by autocorrect and the edit button not working on smartphone browsers. That's also why I make multiple posts in a row instead of editing.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    I can just imagine playing PnP with friends and the DM announces that for a short time only, you can give him $100 and he will make your character more powerful than anyone else's. I can't imagine that campaign lasting very long, or being particularly fun.
    If we are going to strech silly analogies... the opposite view could be that if you and some friends wanted to run an epic level campaign and rather than roll up high level characters... the DM wanted you to start at level 1 and run the same campaign that you had run hundreds of times...

    because you were to play the game, not skip content!

    If you have ever rolled up a high level toon in DnD, the ottos box isn't such a jump.

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